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KendraDZ1902
Guest
Yeah, those who put the book together don’t understand it. This is ludicrous.
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icamhif
Guest
Oh wait a minute…but the Church has people like Athanasius who is an “expert” in Christology, and ALSO a council of bishops who are experts in canonicity.
Ah yes, at this point, I admit defeat. I’m not here to win debates, but to learn through discussion. I am an inquirer, after all.
God bless you, Kendra and Jon!
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QuestLove
Guest
I think it was clarified in the second statement. I am not sure why you are hung up on the fact that some of the most devoted followers can be non-catholic or not catholic. Obviously it goes without saying that this must be based on personal experience. In the same way I can say, “some of the most devoted followers (or devout people) are catholics”.
How is this a controversial statement?
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Magdalenaa
Guest
Some of the most devoted followers of Jesus Christ are Catholics.
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aidanbradypop
Guest
Seems like you are splitting hairs here. Both statements can be true.
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Tom_Baum
Guest
You wrote, “To say some of the most devoted are not Catholic is a statement in itself.”, yes it is a “statement in itself” and it is the statement that the person said, not, “That denotes, according to the author, that the most devoted to Jesus Christ are not Catholic”, you changed the person’s meaning again.
“The most devoted” and “Some of the most devoted” do NOT mean the same.
Just because you “have seen Catholics who are so full of grace that one can already see it in their faces” doesn’t mean that EveningSkye111 hasn’t seen non-Catholics in the same way, does it?
I would think that God has seen not only non-Catholics “who are so full of grace that one can already see it in their faces” but also non-Christians.
I am not EveningSkye111 but I think that EveningSkye111 was pointing out that not ALL of those devoted to Jesus are Catholic and if I am wrong on this, I hope that EveningSkye111 points this out to me.
As far as, “Maybe the person should have added, in my experience some of the most devoted followers…”, I think the fact that EveningSkye111 wrote it, pretty much implied what you think EveningSkye111 should have added.
I am not saying that ALL who claim “experiences” have them but I am saying that I “believe” that at least some do.
I do NOT believe that Jesus only meant the Holy Spirit for the higher-ups.
As a matter of fact, isn’t it that kind of thinking that seemed to be prevalent among the Pharisees of Jesus’s day?
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Tom_Baum
Guest
Why would you think that what you “think” is a true statement but what someone else “thinks” is not a true statement?
Wouldn’t both be each of yours’ opinion?
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Telstar
Guest
I don’t have a horse in this race, but I think there’s a slight misunderstanding happening, here. Most teachers or professors don’t write the textbooks that they use to teach classes. They’re provided by the school. So, the textbook is just a tool that contains the basic facts that the professor simply uses to teach. He chooses the subjects from whatever facts are in it, but he interprets them and chooses to teach as he sees fit. The textbook doesn’t necessarily dictate everything he teaches.
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Magdalenaa
Guest
That’s also what I was saying.
I don’t think I would equate the authority of the Church as established by God Himself with the Pharisees.
I also don’t think sola scriptura is actually sola scriptura.
Catholic Answers has a great article on it. I highly recommend it.
catholic.com/tracts/whats-your-authority
catholic.com/tracts/scripture-and-tradition
“Thus, by the light of the Spirit of truth, these successors can in their preaching preserve this word of God faithfully, explain it, and make it more widely known. Consequently it is not from sacred Scripture alone that the Church draws her certainty about everything which has been revealed. Therefore both sacred Tradition and sacred Scripture are to be accepted and venerated with the same devotion and reverence.”
And how was this to be done? By preaching, by oral instruction: “So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ” (Rom. 10:17). The Church would always be the living teacher. It is a mistake to limit “Christ’s word” to the written word only or to suggest that all his teachings were reduced to writing. The Bible nowhere supports either notion.
Further, it is clear that the oral teaching of Christ would last until the end of time. “’But the word of the Lord abides for ever.’ That word is the good news which was preached to you” (1 Pet. 1:25). Note that the word has been “preached”—that is, communicated orally. This would endure.
Anyway, the second article explains really who has the authority as given by Christ Himself.
I also like the exact wording of Vatican II (Dei Verbum # 10): “The task of authoritatively interpreting the word of God, whether written or handed on [Scripture or Tradition], has been entrusted exclusively to the living Magisterium of the Church, whose authority is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ.”
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Magdalenaa
Guest
My hairs are all split already. Having a major split ends problem here… literally
I believe both statements can be true, but why do you think I only meant some of the most devoted followers of Christ are Catholics and not non-Catholics? How could anyone possibly not know that I think non-Catholics can be some of the most devoted followers of Jesus Christ by my statement? I mean by saying that I implied that both were true just like the original poster implied by her statement that some of the most devoted followers of Jesus Christ were Catholic as well, I’m sure.
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KendraDZ1902
Guest
Some professors do write or help write textbooks.I don’t have a horse in this race, but I think there’s a slight misunderstanding happening, here. Most teachers or professors don’t write the textbooks that they use to teach classes. They’re provided by the school. So, the textbook is just a tool that contains the basic facts that the professor simply uses to teach. He chooses the subjects from whatever facts are in it, but he interprets them and chooses to teach as he sees fit. The textbook doesn’t necessarily dictate everything he teaches.
aaup.org/report/professors-assigning-their-own-texts-students
They also get to decide which textbook is used in their class. For instance, I had Professor A who wanted X textbook and a sister who had Professor B who wanted textbook Z. Same class, different textbooks.
This isn’t public school or even high school, but at the collegiate level. IF the professor did write the book, I’m sure the book would dictate his view/opinion/research.
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Tom_Baum
Guest
Why?
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Tom_Baum
Guest
If some are, who are the others?
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Magdalenaa
Guest
The others who are not the most devoted followers, you mean?
I was actually making the same statement as the poster I was having an issue with.
Personally I think anyone can be some of the devoted follower of Christ as He is the light, the Truth, and the way. And I think Jesus Christ works miracles and works behind their backs. Even though they might not know His name, they might know the Truth, the Light, and the Way.
I do think however Catholics have a great advantage and huge responsibility, but I don’t know who some the most devoted followers of Jesus Christ are for certain. I am not in a position to even judge that. I’m just a mere fallen human being.
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icamhif
Guest
So, back to the OP:
There are reasons I am going to convert from Evangelicalism to one of four Churches (see my signature), but the claim that “Protestants can’t know what Jesus taught, outside the authority of the Church” is not one of them. One can reasonably make the case that the four Gospels and the Pauline Epistles are generally reliable accounts of Christ and His teachings. I elaborated on that here:
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Richca
Guest
Jesus said "If I do not perform my Father’s works, do not believe me;
but if I perform them, even if you do not believe me, believe the works, so that you may realize [and understand] that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.” (John 10: 37-38).
Jesus backed up his words with miracles which manifest his divine mission, at least to the person of common sense.
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dronald
Guest
I too have been considering those Church’s and it too has nothing to do with the question posed.
How do you plan on meeting people and converting? This has been such a hard step for me; and deciding which one is most true… Lol.
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icamhif
Guest
Short answer: Go to the Parish, talk to the Priest, and meet a few members.
Long Answer: I go to the website of the closest Church parish from your house, and either call or email the Priest. I then attend the parish and try to meet a few people. I then express my interest in possibly converting (unfortunately, not all of them will take your interest with much enthusiasm). After that, I try attending a Bible study. You’ll meet at least a few devout members there (otherwise, they wouldn’t go the Bible study.)
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Thorolfr
Guest
How would you go about deciding which one is most true (the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Oriental Orthodox Church, or the Assyrian Church of the East)?
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aidanbradypop
Guest
Rock, paper, scissors, lizard, Spock?
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