Non-Catholics: How do you know that the words of Jesus are true?

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The OP’s question is a strange one. I am not even sure how to answer it. The fact of the matter is that the two (scripture and Church) are inter-related. One is not the direct logical successor of the other. It is a circular relationship, which is exactly why faith is basically nothing more than a circular argument/logic.

At the end of the day, I imagine all of us here only have faith solely because we want to have faith. That’s what it boils down to.
 
The OP’s question is a strange one. I am not even sure how to answer it. The fact of the matter is that the two (scripture and Church) are inter-related. One is not the direct logical successor of the other. It is a circular relationship, which is exactly why faith is basically nothing more than a circular argument/logic.

At the end of the day, I imagine all of us here only have faith solely because we want to have faith. That’s what it boils down to.
In a matter of speaking I think that’s true…but the reason I want faith is actually because the Holy Spirit planted my first seed of faith as a child through things my Mom told me as well as my Sunday School attendance. This seed that was planted and fed by a variety of people as I grew up really took root at my baptism - God drew me to Him through the Holy Spirit and what I learned about our Savior throughout my life.

God bless!

Rita
 
If something has been reliably handed down, then why is there any need to hammer things out later as if there was uncertainty about what was correct? And why would the doctrines about Mary be more important after 1854 and not before? If they weren’t really important to Catholics for more than 1800 years, why would they be important later?
Trent sure did have a reason thanks to you know who…

Nicea had a reason thanks to Arius.
 
Thanks, Jon. Do you or anyone else who is more familiar with the early church fathers know when the Marian dogmas were first mentioned by the early Church?
Jimmy Akin’s book has a ton of references, I may be able to post some of it tomorrow, but highly recommend everyone pick that book up.
 
The OP’s question is a strange one.
Interesting. So does that mean that there isn’t a web page titled “Non-Orthodox: How do you know that the words of Jesus are true?” ?

Kidding … well sort of. 🙂
 
Without The Church, people wouldn’t have the New Testament that they do today. You’re welcome.

:okpeople:And if so many people think that The Church is in error on so many topics, why respect the books of the bible they put together? If I thought a group was wrong on so much stuff, I wouldn’t respect any book they compiled. :whacky:
👍
 
If something has been reliably handed down, then why is there any need to hammer things out later as if there was uncertainty about what was correct? And why would the doctrines about Mary be more important after 1854 and not before? If they weren’t really important to Catholics for more than 1800 years, why would they be important later?
Take this analogy, Thorolfr. And if you’re a parent you will really be able to relate. It happens every day with children, trying to wheedle out of a declaration made by parents with the excuse, “Well, you’ve never made this a rule before!”

It has been the “constant teaching” in our house that when the kids come home from school they are to do certain things: hang up their backpacks, put their shoes away, wash their hands, take off their uniforms, eat their snack, finish their chores, practice their piano, etc etc etc.

Despite the fact that they have been doing this every school day for 2-11 years every once in a while we need to have a “family meeting” to pronounce, declare and define exactly who should be doing which job and how it is to be done. (Note: I try to ignore their incredulous looks that say, “What? We’re supposed to hang up our backpacks again this year?” or “What? You’ve never said that we had to take off our uniforms and hang them up!” )

At this council we recall what’s been done in the past, review the current norms and define again exactly what’s the expectation. Sometimes the kids complain that we are “making up new rules”, claiming we’ve “never done it this way before” when in actuality we are just pronouncing, declaring and defining a standard norm of our family.

Thus, the solemn declaration of the dogma of Mary’s IC was not newly formed in 1854. It was a constant belief held and spoken of for many years, sometimes correctly, sometimes incorrectly. Perhaps in order to alleviate any doubt and to correct any wrong information, God chose 1854 as the time to pronounce, declare and define this belief and practice.

However, this dogma was ancient, dating back to the apostles themselves.
 
I’ve often been told by members that the best way is to go to the Parishes and experience the life of the Church.
No, icam.

This is the wrong way to choose a denomination.

Mormons have a wonderful demonstration of Christian love, IMHO. Yet we know that their gospel is sorely lacking and full of errors.

So, too, do many storefront churches have a great love of God and demonstration of Christian life.

However, Scripture tells us that many people on fire with love for Christ can be wrong in their theology.

Go where the Church of Christ is…not where people stand in the tradition of Apollos, full of fervor for the Lord, but in need of being taken aside to have the Word of God explained more correctly to them.
 
No, icam.

This is the wrong way to choose a denomination.

Mormons have a wonderful demonstration of Christian love, IMHO. Yet we know that their gospel is sorely lacking and full of errors.

So, too, do many storefront churches have a great love of God and demonstration of Christian life.

However, Scripture tells us that many people on fire with love for Christ can be wrong in their theology.

Go where the Church of Christ is…not where people stand in the tradition of Apollos, full of fervor for the Lord, but in need of being taken aside to have the Word of God explained more correctly to them.
Would it kill Catholics to not only be ‘right’ but also to be the same in receiving people who just walk in?
 
I don’t know what you mean.
Well I decided to check out a Coptic Orthodox Church for the first time this morning and I got a few strange looks from some people that made me feel very uncomfortable. One man did come over and say welcome after the people at the front of the Church discussed my intentions for being there.

When I have gone to Catholic Church’s I blend in far better, so it’s not uncomfortable but no one says hi; no one stays and chats. There’s really nothing like you say with the Mormon or “storefront” Church’s. But why can’t these Catholic Church’s be like the Mormons in character, but be Catholic in Church practice?
 
But why can’t these Catholic Church’s be like the Mormons in character, but be Catholic in Church practice?
Because most Catholics are lump-in-the-pew Catholics who couldn’t identify the doctrine of the IC if it fell on them and hit them on the head. They couldn’t tell you where Scripture is in the Mass. They don’t know that they have to fast 1 hour before receiving communion and be in a state of grace to received.

Because you know more about Catholicism than most Catholics.
 
Here is why I know that the words of Jesus are true - for example, I don’t believe most of what is on Fox News, but when the they quote someone, I believe the quotes are correct.
So here’s where your position in untenable, openmind.

“The Catholic Church got it right when it says [Jesus said A, B and C]”

but

“The Catholic Church got it wrong when it says [God said D, E and F]”.

What you have done is simply taken things which you agree with and are palatable and said, “I like Jesus when he said this!”

But taken the things which you disagree with and said, “The Church is wrong here.”

All you’ve done is create a god after your own image.

Not conform yourself to what God has revealed.
 
No because the church teaches christianity and you disagree on what it teaches about Christisnity.

It’s like saying, I disagree with Stephen Hawking about physics and black holes but I love his books and reference them for everything.
Egg-zactly.

As Mark Shea says, paraphrasing: some folks who believe in the words of Jesus will throw the bishop’s miters to the floor, stomp on our altars, but inexplicably take our Holy Book and declare it an infallible oracle (at least as limited as the words of Jesus, or even as far as our entire Bible).

But it’s inexplicable. How can the Church get it so right about Jesus’ Words (or the entire NT, or the Bible in its entirety) yet get it so wrong about everything else?
 
I don’t think we can know for sure who wrote the Gospel of Mark or any of the gospels. The writing we call the Gospel of Mark was not attributed to someone named Mark until the end of the 2nd century and since the name Mark was not an unusual one, even if it was written by someone named Mark, we don’t know for sure which Mark wrote it.
Egg-zactly.

You trust in the authority of the CC to tell you that it was written by someone named Mark.
 
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