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mrsdizzyd
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I very clearly stated I was referring to this situation. I’m not sure why you’d think I thought priests are infallible.
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Reuben_J
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So you are against your Bishop, who in his discretion is allowing the parishioners to go up for blessing during Communion.
Aren’t you letting your spirit of disobedience to take over you in fighting for your right here? And you would know from where the spirit of disobedience comes from.
I am not much in this debate but I would see this as much. I have gladly blessed those who come up for the blessing and it is such a blessing to see how those children and their parents receiving those blessing.
Putting that aside, the main issue is because my Bishop allows it, and my obedience is to him.
I have to accept that yours is difference then. I am sad for that because when the spirit of disobedience takes over, we have seen where our Church would go.
I would take my leave from commenting here for now. I do not thrive in arguing like some do.
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JimG
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Whether or not people get in the communion line for a blessing is sort of a non issue for me. I spent a good part of my life going to the old Mass and the rest of it going to what is now the Ordinary Form. For a good part of that time communion was received kneeling at the altar rail; it never occurred to anyone to kneel at the altar rail for a blessing. (At our daily Masses, we still receive at the altar rail, while standing.)
I don’t think it was something any bishop particularly came up with. It seems to have been an idea of an RCIA director which others copied. But who knows? I always wondered why there would be a dual purpose communion and blessing line. (I have been on parish retreats or missions where there actually was a line for individual blessings at the close of the event, but that was just for blessings.)
I don’t think it was something any bishop particularly came up with. It seems to have been an idea of an RCIA director which others copied. But who knows? I always wondered why there would be a dual purpose communion and blessing line. (I have been on parish retreats or missions where there actually was a line for individual blessings at the close of the event, but that was just for blessings.)
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Gorgias
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Unless you’re telling us that you’re a priest, then your comments here – about the “spirit of disobedience” – speak volumes.
But, it helps me to understand where you’re coming from. You give blessings. For whatever reason, you feel offended when others tell you that this isn’t proper. I’m sorry you feel dissed when folks explain the difference to you between laity and clergy, and between the rubrics of the Church and personal innovation.
Peace.
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casslean
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BartholomewB
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Thank you!
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Pup7
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I’m curious - is this really a big enough hill to die on? Does it truly affect you one way or the other?
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pnewton
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No, I do not. I follow my priest and my bishop.
Exactly. These discussions by lay liturgist always remind me of when Peter questioned Jesus about what was in John’s future (John 21).
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Gorgias
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Fine. Then please demonstrate where your priest has the authority to change the Mass. Alternately, you can show where your bishop gave this authority to his priests. Otherwise, you’re just proceeding from a position of ignorance on this question.Gorgias:
No, I do not. I follow my priest and my bishop.
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casslean
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No, he’s not.Fine. Then please demonstrate where your priest has the authority to change the Mass. Alternately, you can show where your bishop gave this authority to his priests. Otherwise, you’re just proceeding from a position of ignorance on this question.
Your argument only works if the reader accepts the position that this is a change to the Mass. That is not an irrefutable position.
Perhaps the charitable thing to do here is to agree to disagree. It seems that nothing short of a papal edict is going to convince you that this is an acceptable practice, and those who agree with the practice are not persuaded by your arguments.
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Gorgias
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Fair enough.
However, it would be charitable to explain why one thinks it is not, rather than just saying “my priest does it and that’s good enough.” So… I would think it would be fair to explain why a liturgical action, by the priest celebrant, within the context of the Mass is not a change in the Mass?
Personally, that approach is one of my pet peeves. But, I get where you’re coming from.
No… a statement with proper authority (i.e., from the conference of bishops) would suffice.
Boy, ain’t that the truth!
(However, I think it’s more accurate to say “they do not address my arguments, but just ignore them.”
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casslean
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So if multiple bishops are participating in these blessings, but there is no “statement” that it is correct - do you just assume all of these bishops are incorrect?No… a statement with proper authority (i.e., from the conference of bishops) would suffice.
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Gorgias
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No – I would assert that they (as bishops) are able to do so, but that – in the absence of explicit permission given to their priests – it remains problematic that a priest simply decides to implement a change on his own authority. In a previous post, I demonstrated that bishops do have the authority to do things personally (by virtue of their office) that their priests do not have the authority to do, unless their bishop explicitly grants them authority or delegates to them. I would see the present question in that light.
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mrsdizzyd
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We aren’t privy to the instructions our bishops give our priests.
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Gorgias
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Good point. I’ve never seen a priest conceal what faculties his bishop has given him, though, when asked directly. And, I’ve never heard a priest say “oh, yeah – the bishop has given us permission to give blessings in the communion line!”, nor have I ever had a person tell me that his priest has said this to them. (I’m guessing that, if that were the case among us in the present discussion, someone would have shared that info!)
I remember seeing, once, following an ordination, that our diocese actually prints a booklet of faculties for priests and deacons. So, it’s not like it’s secret information, or info that’s unknown and unknowable to many!
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casslean
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This is where I take issue with you saying people do not address your arguments. I already addressed this argument.
The authority under the Code of Canon Law that is given to bishops by authority of their office is specific, not illustrative. If you are suggesting that the ability to confer blessings at communion is based on the authority given to bishops (and bishops alone), you need to be able to fit it under on of the specific powers conferred. You then have to show that this power is not conferred on pastors or priests.
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pnewton
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Absolutely! I am not a trained liturgist. That is precisely why I defer with the ones I know who have been educated and carry the authority of properly implementing the liturgy. That is why I assume what they say is the proper implementation of the liturgy is proper, and not what posters here claim.
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Gorgias
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That would be your bishop. Or, the conference of bishops, as has been pointed out here. That would not be your local pastor.
I get it. But, when you see what the Church asserts as its law, and when you don’t see anything that suggests that what they’re doing is according to that law… what do you assume then?!?
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casslean
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My local pastor has a doctorate in Liturgy. He’s the one the bishop calls when they have major liturgical celebrations. Pretty sure I can trust he knows that he’s doing.That would be your bishop. Or, the conference of bishops, as has been pointed out here. That would not be your local pastor.
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pnewton
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The head of each parish is the bishop. The local priest works in his stead. Chain of command. I am not in the chain.That would not be your local pastor .
I don’t.
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