Non-Catholics in communion line

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leomom said:
So I guess my question here is…How many things can be “changed” (added or deleted during the Mass), at the discretion of the pastor?
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I guess I made a mistake in asking about the blessing first, as there are several things that I mentioned that this particular priest has changed. And perhaps I should have asked, “How many things can be arbitrarily changed by a priest, within or outside the Mass?” because it is not just the blessing that started this thread that he has changed; i.e., the age at which a child can serve Mass, the requirement to have received required sacraments prior to serving.

Some would say that these things are legalistic and/or none of my business, however, I feel that we all should be humble enough to obey, even when we don’t necessarily believe. Kinda like having “faith.”
 
So, if one thing can be changed, then anything can be changed, so what is the point of being Catholic, part of a Tradition supposedly unchanged since the time of Christ?
 
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leomom said:
it is not just the blessing that started this thread that he has changed; i.e., the age at which a child can serve Mass, the requirement to have received required sacraments prior to serving.
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Note the difference between these things, though: neither of these other two are part of the Mass. 😉
Some would say that these things are legalistic and/or none of my business, however, I feel that we all should be humble enough to obey, even when we don’t necessarily believe. Kinda like having “faith.”
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Fair enough.
leomom said:
So, if one thing can be changed, then anything can be changed, so what is the point of being Catholic, part of a Tradition supposedly unchanged since the time of Christ?
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Well… that isn’t exactly true, although many Catholics look at it that way. What cannot change is doctrine and dogma. What can change is ‘discipline’, which are the rules the Church makes. Of course, even with disciplines (e.g., not eating meat on Friday, the length of the Eucharistic fast, etc), it’s not the case that anyone may change it arbitrarily and unilaterally on his own initiative.
 
Thank you! And yes, I realize that the other issues are not “part of the Mass.” Maybe I am questioning the overall actions of this priest, who seems to be changing all kinds of things at his whim. He commented at one point that he didn’t think Jesus would mind if the young boy served Mass. I don’t think Jesus would mind either.

However, having served as a catechist for many years, I was taught that it was our duty to teach people what the Church teaches. I have read articles about the importance of maintaining our sacred beliefs and Traditions and the obligation of the catechist to do so. For instance: Many people raise their hands or hold hands during the Our Father at Mass. This is no where in the GIRM, but it is practiced in some churches. What about kneeling after communion. I believe that we are all supposed to stand as a community of believers, not kneel in personal prayer.

I am confused to say the least, because it seems like most people here justify what they choose to do regardless of the rule. So again I must ask, what’s the point of being Catholic?

It has been very interesting, though, and I thank you again.
 
I omitted a key word here; should have said “occasionally attends Mass.”
 
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leomom said:
Maybe I am questioning the overall actions of this priest, who seems to be changing all kinds of things at his whim
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Right. There are things which he can decide to do, on his own personal judgment. The things you mentioned are some of them. Of course, this can be a confusing time in the life of a parish, if one pastor leaves and his replacement does things differently.
leomom said:
Many people raise their hands or hold hands during the Our Father at Mass. This is no where in the GIRM, but it is practiced in some churches.
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Right. The argument I’ve heard made, in this case, is that the GIRM doesn’t prescribe a posture for people at this point and so, if folks want to raise their hands, it’s all good. (We might have an interesting discussion about why they’re raising their hands, but that’s a whole 'nother topic… 😉 )
leomom said:
What about kneeling after communion. I believe that we are all supposed to stand as a community of believers, not kneel in personal prayer.
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Well, actually, no. The GIRM addresses this question in two sections. First, “when the distribution of Communion is over, if appropriate, the Priest and faithful pray quietly for some time.” So, ‘personal prayer’ seems precisely what it’s calling for us to do at that time!

The GIRM also says, at #43:
[The faithful] may sit or kneel while the period of sacred silence after Communion is observed.

In the dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason. Those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects after the consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.[53]

With a view to a uniformity in gestures and postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the directions which the deacon, lay minister, or priest gives according to whatever is indicated in the Missal.
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There is an excellent article from Madison Wisconsin–


It deals with blessings by lay ministers of holy communion giving the blessing referred to, but it’s worth reading. Apparently there was a statement (quoted) from the Congregation for Divine Worship in 2008 that covered it. (The essence of it is: lay people shouldn’t do it.)

There is also a good article from 2017 (which also talks about the 2008 statement) http://www.massexplained.com/communion-blessing/

but goes further–it tracks down the origin of the practice. Apparently “the custom was popularized by Dale Fushek who founded Life Teen in the early 80s. This practice then spread throughout the U.S. and beyond. Today, it is so common, that some parishes have codified it in their own instructions.”

As others have pointed out, GIRM does not explicitly address the practice beyond saying that a priest cannot add or subtract to the Mass as the whim takes him. It sounds to me like one of those well-meaning things that snuck in the back door (hand holding, I’m looking at you!). The Vatican has not explicitly forbidden it, but it certainly sounds like they don’t explicitly recommend it either.

If I were the original poster, I’d sit in my seat until I was baptized and could receive communion.

But her question is an excellent one, and it illustrates that even those of us who think they have a lot of the answers don’t have ALL the answers!
 
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Gorgias said:
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mrsdizzyd:
My Parish Priest is a Cannon lawyer for the diocese…
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OK. That means that he studied canon law. Does it say anything about the quality of his actions, though? 🤔 😉
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Well, considering the bishop trusts him to be on the tribunal and he is a professor at the local seminary I’d say he’s proven he is knowledgeable and trustworthy. I certainly don’t see anything out of the ordinary at my parish.
 
Erikaspirit16 said:
As others have pointed out, GIRM does not explicitly address the practice beyond saying that a priest cannot add or subtract to the Mass as the whim takes him. It sounds to me like one of those well-meaning things that snuck in the back door (hand holding, I’m looking at you!). The Vatican has not explicitly forbidden it, but it certainly sounds like they don’t explicitly recommend it either.
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Yep! 👍 👍
 
If you read the whole thing it says we are supposed to be standing except at the times indicated…
I was taught that after the distribution of communion is over, there is silent prayer before the last of the presidential prayers begins.

Still enjoying the discussion!

Thanks!
 
Cardinal Arinze was very critical of people like this trying to treat the people of God like they are in boot camp. He said as long as no one adds to the liturgy by proscription (saying something should be done) we should leave people be. That seemed a much more balanced answer than all this liturgical bickering.
 
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pnewton said:
He said as long as no one adds to the liturgy by proscription (saying something should be done) we should leave people be.
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Do you have a citation for this quote? It would be an interesting read… 👍
 
“He said” this time is actually literal. The whole video is good. I will try and find it.


At around 25 minutes he actually addresses this thread’s issue where he says, “It is left to local practice.” He also said that this issue was examined in Rome and they decided to say nothing about it in order to allow freedom to the diocese.

The whole video is of value as it shows the value of drawing lines where they are needed and allowing freedom over everything else. Realize that he is just speaking and nothing cares any weight. Yet it is a far better insight than I, or anyone else here, can provide.

Okay, around 50-55 minutes he gets into the whole relationship between Rome, the bishops and the people of God. Anyone trying to figure out how to deal with a bishop’s directive, versus what they read here or in Church documents, would do well to listen to the general tone of how the Church works from one on the inside. Leave people “in peace, not pieces.”

FYI - in my parish everyone holds hands, or almost. I am up front and in a position to isolate myself. After seeing some who appear uncomfortable with this, I will now often stand with my hands folded just to allow some solidarity with those, and to make it clear there is not regimented posture.
 
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Augustinian said:
To paraphrase Ambrose of Milan, “When in Rome do as the Romans”.
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Is this phrase actually attributed to him? I grew up with it in colloquial Afrikaans (translated obviously). Along with “all roads lead to Rome!”
 
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