Non-Catholics: Why are you here?

[Hboggs]

… It’s not about how attractive the Catholic Church is, it’s about the truth. If you are tired of being told this, I’d encourage you to question the Catholic faith! And, by questioning it, find the answers to your questions, instead of just leaving. Check out books, say the Catechism, or you could go on YouTube (GREAT videos there! Check out TheChurchMillitant’s channel). Get informed, and then you can find answers.

First of all I agree whole heartedly. If your issues are primarily theological, it has been my experience that all the (heavy-weight) converts, such as Scott Hahn, have torn through the Catechsim trying to find that one “gotcha” point, but have had to come to the final conclusion that the Catholic Church is in fact THE Church which does contain the TRUTH. It may take you weeks, months or even years to come to the same conclusion, but it would be worth it.

In brotherly love…

 

[pismopal]

I’ve just joined two minutes ago. To understand the Catholic faith better, I thought participating in a forum would be eye-opening. Being raised Baptist, it has never once been important for me to know anything about the Catholic church. Recently that changed. My husband of three years expressed a passionate desire for me to convert to Catholicism. At first, I vehemently refused to discuss the matter. My faith is personal and cannot be controlled by him. Later today I realized I don’t even know what I’m fighting against. So I found a local church. I found this forum to educate myself so I don’t feel like a total alien when I visit the church. Things we do for love…

A hearty and heart felt welcome to you and your husband from a former Baptist-now Catholic member…one of the many former Baptists here.

 

[1beleevr]

Up until I joined this forum, I had had mostly negative contact with catholics; either friends, relatives, or co-workers. Many were arrogant and obnoxious, and accused me of not knowing he Truth! I wanted to see what the ratio was of catholics on this forum who exhibited the same traits. It was about 60% obnoxious and 40% compassionate, leve-headed, God loving and fearing Christians. Hey there are bad apples in every faith, and after 2 years, I can appreciate the strength of catholics on this forum in regards to their faith, but have not been convinced to convert! Love sharing and debating with my brothers and sisters in Christ more than arguing whose right or wrong!

 

[1beleevr]

I am in dire need of some answers, my partner is considering converting, and I’d like to, but I’m so confused about Catholicism. Somebody please help me. I have questions, not criticisms. I’ve heard from protestants that the Catholic beliefs are not biblically accurate, and I wish I could get some answers. Here are a few of many, and God bless you if you help me find direction (and if you don’t!).

If the bible says that the overseer of a church needs to manage his family well and treat his wife right, why are priests required to remain celibate?

Why do the priests tell you to say a certain number of Hail Mary’s to resolve your sin if that prayer is not found in the bible?

Why can’t you take communion in the Catholic church if you’re not catholic, and why do they call it your first communion if you’ve taken communion in other churches? do they not count that?

Do Catholics believe that protestants go to heaven, or just them?

Do Catholics believe that the un-baptized go to hell?

Where did the 7 sacraments come from?

Is the rosary considered “vain repetition” that the bible talks about? Explain.

Do Catholics believe you need to go to confession to be forgiven, or that you can ask forgiveness any time any place without the need of a middle man? Does the bible say you need a middle man?

Is everything that the Catholics believe bible-based?

Do or did Catholics ever discourage personal bible study? I’ve heard that they do/have.

Can just any person who does not know much about Jesus go into a Catholic mass and understand/get a message from it? Or would they probably be confused? And if so, shouldn’t the message be clear for all?

As for the RCIA, (I think that’s what it’s called), why does the Catholic church require human approval and man-made process for you to be considered in that faith/religion?

I have many more questions, but that’s all I can think of.

Please copy and paste my questions with answers below, I’d REALLY appreciate it, I need guidance.

Can’t wait to see someone tackle and answer ALL of these questions!

 

[CopticChristian]

Up until I joined this forum, I had had mostly negative contact with catholics; either friends, relatives, or co-workers. Many were arrogant and obnoxious, and accused me of not knowing he Truth! I wanted to see what the ratio was of catholics on this forum who exhibited the same traits. It was about 60% obnoxious and 40% compassionate, leve-headed, God loving and fearing Christians. Hey there are bad apples in every faith, and after 2 years, I can appreciate the strength of catholics on this forum in regards to their faith, but have not been convinced to convert! Love sharing and debating with my brothers and sisters in Christ more than arguing whose right or wrong!

St. Paul said he was the least of the Apostle, least of the Saints and finally the greatest of sinners. These statements were made in time as he aged. We all have to come to that realization. If he was able to say he was the greatest of sinners then it is likely that he was before he declared it to be so. So it is with all that have been Baptized into His death and into His life.

 

[CopticChristian]

Can’t wait to see someone tackle and answer ALL of these questions!

I hope no one tackles the list. I believe as Guanophore has said, Christ founded a Church, there is a deposit of Faith. I have said that the Bible was birthed by the Body of Christ which is the Church. It isn’t my Church, your Church, our Church, it is His Church and we are members. It is a Kingdom. There is a Lord.

I would then ask this. What is your understanding of the Catholic Church and then look at the list.

 

[gleetha]

wonderinguser—

go to the messege board index

first on the list: Apologetics

re-post your Q’s there.

i need the answers also.

doubting Thomas was an apostle. he asked. he received his answer and believed.

 

[1voice]

To talk to other Christians as well as people of other persuasions … to learn what they believe and why. I debate sometimes … but I only use it as a tool to gain understanding … Never just for the sake of arguing a point.
I am an Evangelical Charismatic Christian that grew up Catholic. I like to touch base and see how my Catholic brothers and sisters are doing from time to time.

 

[1voice]

I am not a Catholic now … but I was born Catholic and was a practicing Catholic fo almost 30 years.
I will tackle this one.

Is the rosary considered “vain repetition” that the bible talks about? Explain.

There are 2 schools of thought.
The first is that the Rosary is a discipline intended to focus the mind and heart on the events in Christ’s life as well as giving honor to Jesus Mother.

… The second opinion … and I, as a Catholic, saw it many, many times over the years … people would drone through the words very fast on autopilot … Their brain completely disengaged … fulfilling an obligation of some kind … for example … at funerals ( I wanted to stop the guy that led a decade of the Rosary at my Grandmothers funeral and ask him what the heck he was thinking … it was like he was on speed or something … ) or performing a penance after confession or offering an indulgence fo someone believed to be in purgatory. Just plowing through it to get it done.

Used correctly … the Rosary can be a vehicle for deep meditation and spiritual growth … Too often I have seen it used incorrectly. When I was a kid in Catholic School we had to say the Rosary ad infinitum … For a kid the repetition was boring after the second time … being led by women that glared at you if you dared to fidget or get up to go to the bathroom didnt help … after 8 straight years I never wanted to see another rosary bead…
… so, yes … it can be very vain and boring repetition.

Im sure that my Catholic brothers and sisters will recoil at my honesty … so be it … personally I love to worship and praise and read / meditate on selected scriptures … I find that style of personal prayer and worship very refreshing.

 

[Roy5]

Let me add one thought that is central to my own thinking.

We live in an amazing universe that our ancestors, even our grandparents, didn’t know much about. Perhaps there are a million solar systems out there! In light of this - and much more - I feel that it is somewhat presumptuous to argue that we know all that much about Creation or God. God is inscrutable, well beyond our finite understanding. I think it was Harry Emerson Fosdick, a great preacher years ago, who said something like: “I can only believe in a God that I do not understand.”

What troubles me about Catholicism and evangelical Protestantism is that both contend that they know the essentials of spiritual truth. Catholicism even adds more by detailing so much about purgatory, Mary, papal infallibility, saints, the power of the Rosary, absolution through confession, and much more found in the catechism.

  Personally, I trust in God alone and not in any church or even any book. There is much in the scriptures that is powerful and inspirational, but when I read the Creation account in Genesis or the genocide committed in God's name by Joshua, Saul and others, I must doubt. I can't believe, for example, that God would demand such wanton killing. "Saul has killed his thousands but David has killed his ten thousands!" Now how can that kind of mantra heralded in the Bible be from the God of love, mercy and forgiveness?

 To me humility when it comes to doctrine is appropriate. Too often religion has taught humility, love and peace while promoting arrogance, bigotry and hostility. "God forgive us for we know not what we do."

 Having said all that, if a dogmatic faith, whether Catholic or Protestant, provides a sense of security and assurance for believers, fine. I do not criticize, but I am content to await the world to come to have the answers to many of my questions. There's a simple gospel song that sums it up: "Farther along we'll know all about it, farther along we'll understand why, cheer up my brother live in the sunshine, we'll understand it all by and by."

 That, in a nutshell, is why I find mainline, liberal Protestantism attractive. It nourishes faith whole permitting independent thinking. Those who think as I do often are accused of egotism, of course, daring to defy the one, true church or the infallible Word of God.  Quite the opposite. We acknowledge that as finite creatures of God there is a lot we will never know in this life. Hence, as Paul says, we readily journey by faith and not by sight.

 But God bless everybody.

 

[CopticChristian]

Let me add one thought that is central to my own thinking.

We acknowledge that as finite creatures of God there is a lot we will never know in this life. Hence, as Paul says, we readily journey by faith and not by sight.

 But God bless everybody.

You are a captive of

my own thinking.

• I feel that it is somewhat presumptuous to argue that we know all that much about Creation or God. God is inscrutable, well beyond our finite understanding.

Feelings are good. God wants you to know.

18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

What troubles me about Catholicism and evangelical Protestantism is that both contend that they know the essentials of spiritual truth. Catholicism even adds more by detailing so much about purgatory, Mary, papal infallibility, saints, the power of the Rosary, absolution through confession, and much more found in the catechism.

Your troubles are comparing what is known with what is a pretense and not looking in the world. There are truths and suppressing is just like ignoring or neglecting.

1For this reason we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away from it. 2For if the word spoken through angels proved unalterable, and every transgression and disobedience received a just penalty, 3how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation?

I trust in God alone and not in any church or even any book. So Paul was a prisoner for nothing. The truths revealed through a mystery. There can be only one truth, only one mystery and if you do not look in the world you are accountable.

1For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles— 2if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace which was given to me for you; 3that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. 4By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; 6to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, 7of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God’s grace which was given to me according to the working of His power. 8To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ, 9and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things; 10so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places. 11This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12in whom we have boldness and confident access through faith in Him.

To me humility when it comes to doctrine is appropriate.

Humble yourself to the revealed truths.

I do not criticize, but I am content to await the world to come to have the answers to many of my questions.

Your equating the truth with a departure is a subtle form of criticism.

That, in a nutshell, is why I find mainline, liberal Protestantism attractive.

You have chosen to accept what is attractive and not necessarily true by thinking, feeling, being troubled, considering humility and believing and being content.

18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

God chose you, you have an eternal purpose.

Our choosing to follow sometimes requires accepting what may not initially may be attractive, is true, ignoring our wrong thinking, understanding our feelings, letting our troubles be given to Our Lord, humbling ourseles as we believe revealed truths so that our contentment can lie in satisfaction of our calling.

I pray you continue to look.

Close your eyes, stop thinking, imagine anything you like for a moment, the Glory of God, the angels, the heavenly life you will have, all that was done at the cross, all the satisfaction you have in being a Christian…then I ask you to consider this…

Why are you posting on Catholic Answers? Tell me next week.

 

[Roy5]

I’m posting on CAF because (1) I have a Catholic heritage on my paternal side and always have been interested in that tradition; (2) I enjoy exploring, examining and discussing matters of faith with people of all persuasions, and (3) I have a deep respect for anybody’s search for religious truth and like to hear where they have traveled and where they ared today.

 

[1beleevr]

I hope no one tackles the list. I believe as Guanophore has said, Christ founded a Church, there is a deposit of Faith. I have said that the Bible was birthed by the Body of Christ which is the Church. It isn’t my Church, your Church, our Church, it is His Church and we are members. It is a Kingdom. There is a Lord.

I would then ask this. What is your understanding of the Catholic Church and then look at the list.

Why wouldn’t you want some catholic, any catholic, to answer ALL of these questions? It is apparent, that one of the reasons that this noncatholic is here, is because they have questions and doubts about the catholic religion.My understanding of the catholic church is vague at best. I meet all different kinds of catholics, and many of them believe differently on certain subjects, so it is difficult to figure out who’s right and who’s wrong! Some believe in confession, some don’t(not as an obligatory practice anyway). Some eat meat on Fridays, some don’t. Some believe in purgatory, some aren’t quite sure yet! So, there it is; I look at each individual as a separate entity and do not judge the whole religion/denomination, based on my reaction to one or more who seem to be radical, or extreme!

 

[1beleevr]

Let me add one thought that is central to my own thinking.

We live in an amazing universe that our ancestors, even our grandparents, didn’t know much about. Perhaps there are a million solar systems out there! In light of this - and much more - I feel that it is somewhat presumptuous to argue that we know all that much about Creation or God. God is inscrutable, well beyond our finite understanding. I think it was Harry Emerson Fosdick, a great preacher years ago, who said something like: “I can only believe in a God that I do not understand.”

What troubles me about Catholicism and evangelical Protestantism is that both contend that they know the essentials of spiritual truth. Catholicism even adds more by detailing so much about purgatory, Mary, papal infallibility, saints, the power of the Rosary, absolution through confession, and much more found in the catechism.

  Personally, I trust in God alone and not in any church or even any book. There is much in the scriptures that is powerful and inspirational, but when I read the Creation account in Genesis or the genocide committed in God's name by Joshua, Saul and others, I must doubt. I can't believe, for example, that God would demand such wanton killing. "Saul has killed his thousands but David has killed his ten thousands!" Now how can that kind of mantra heralded in the Bible be from the God of love, mercy and forgiveness?

 To me humility when it comes to doctrine is appropriate. Too often religion has taught humility, love and peace while promoting arrogance, bigotry and hostility. "God forgive us for we know not what we do."

 Having said all that, if a dogmatic faith, whether Catholic or Protestant, provides a sense of security and assurance for believers, fine. I do not criticize, but I am content to await the world to come to have the answers to many of my questions. There's a simple gospel song that sums it up: "Farther along we'll know all about it, farther along we'll understand why, cheer up my brother live in the sunshine, we'll understand it all by and by."

 That, in a nutshell, is why I find mainline, liberal Protestantism attractive. It nourishes faith whole permitting independent thinking. Those who think as I do often are accused of egotism, of course, daring to defy the one, true church or the infallible Word of God.  Quite the opposite. We acknowledge that as finite creatures of God there is a lot we will never know in this life. Hence, as Paul says, we readily journey by faith and not by sight.

 But God bless everybody.

This is actually a very insightful, and challenging post. It does make some valid points, especially when it states that for some religion provides a sense of security and assurance for some. I have known people who feel this way. Being a Christian is no piece of cake, but like the disciples, and others who have suffered for their faith, we must endure persecution and hardships for His sake! God never promised us a smooth flight(John 16:33), but He did promise us a safe landing! A sign on a church billboard summed it all up: “If you are looking for the perfect church, stop; it doesn’t exist on this planet.”

 

[CopticChristian]

Why wouldn’t you want some catholic, any catholic, to answer ALL of these questions? It is apparent, that one of the reasons that this noncatholic is here, is because they have questions and doubts about the catholic religion.My understanding of the catholic church is vague at best. I meet all different kinds of catholics, and many of them believe differently on certain subjects, so it is difficult to figure out who’s right and who’s wrong! Some believe in confession, some don’t(not as an obligatory practice anyway). Some eat meat on Fridays, some don’t. Some believe in purgatory, some aren’t quite sure yet! So, there it is; I look at each individual as a separate entity and do not judge the whole religion/denomination, based on my reaction to one or more who seem to be radical, or extreme!

You have provided the very reason I hope no one attacks the list. The person is searching. Everyone can approach things differently. I approach things by looking at a question and asking “what is they really want to know” and “what is the best way to get them that information”

Your littany of what Catholics believe is not at issue. It is what the Church teaches. You too are confused and I would not approach your misunderstanding on what you have learned through others in any other way.

I see that addressing lists makes it difficult to get the bigger picture:thumbsup:.

I like to establish a common understanding and then address one issue at a time.

I would ask you in terms of what you have written, what is your understanding of the Catholic Faith. Once we determine that then all else flows. Many of the questions become self correcting as that discussion flows. Want to try to answer and see how that goes?

 

[1beleevr]

You have provided the very reason I hope no one attacks the list. The person is searching. Everyone can approach things differently. I approach things by looking at a question and asking “what is they really want to know” and “what is the best way to get them that information”

Your littany of what Catholics believe is not at issue. It is what the Church teaches. You too are confused and I would not approach your misunderstanding on what you have learned through others in any other way.

I see that addressing lists makes it difficult to get the bigger picture:thumbsup:.

I like to establish a common understanding and then address one issue at a time.

I would ask you in terms of what you have written, what is your understanding of the Catholic Faith. Once we determine that then all else flows. Many of the questions become self correcting as that discussion flows. Want to try to answer and see how that goes?

In 1Thessolonians 5:21, Paul exhort us to “challenge everything,” and that is why people search and question. Yes there are many church gypsies, who church hop for a variety of reasons. Some Christians are just trying to develop a deeper relationship with Christ, and it is no always though a church. I have found that by serving others in His name, the humility I feel, broadens my love for Him, and increases my desire to follow Him, no matter what. I have come a long way. Many a catholic I have talked to, do not believe in serving(Mark 10:45), but instead point out that the catholic church owns many hospitals and operates 'soup kitchens throughout the world. But why aren;t you involved, I ask? "No comment, they say.

 

[CopticChristian]

In 1Thessolonians 5:21, Paul exhort us to “challenge everything,” and that is why people search and question. Yes there are many church gypsies, who church hop for a variety of reasons. Some Christians are just trying to develop a deeper relationship with Christ, and it is no always though a church. I have found that by serving others in His name, the humility I feel, broadens my love for Him, and increases my desire to follow Him, no matter what. I have come a long way. Many a catholic I have talked to, do not believe in serving(Mark 10:45), but instead point out that the catholic church owns many hospitals and operates 'soup kitchens throughout the world. But why aren;t you involved, I ask? "No comment, they say.

Paul says lots of things to do including admonish, seek, rejoice and you say challenge.

We urge you, brethren, admonish the unruly, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with everyone. 15See that no one repays another with evil for evil, but always seek after that which is good for one another and for all people. 16Rejoice always; 17pray without ceasing; 18in everything give thanks; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus. 19Do not quench the Spirit; 20do not despise prophetic utterances. 21But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good; 22abstain from every form of evil.

the word is dokimazo and according to a Protestant source it means all of these things.

I put to the test, prove, examine; I distinguish by testing, approve after testing; I am fit.

In consideration that you have talked to many a Catholic and transmit what they say it suggests that you have not challenged, tested, examined or put to the test what they say.

Like I said the only way to get to the heart of an issue is with a common understanding.

 

[AWguitar007]

I’ve noticed that there are a lot of non-Catholics here, and many of them seem to just want to argue with Church teachings. I can’t help but think they’re here to convert us.

However, I know that not all the non-Catholics are like that–I just can’t figure out why else they spend their time on a Catholic message board. So I thought I’d ask.

What brings you, as a non-Catholic, to Catholic Answers Forums?

As a non-Catholic I come here to engage in debate (respectfully). Personally, I have no religion. Immediately, I am dubbed an atheist. However, I do believe in something that exists outside of our universe (an “it” if you will). This belief stems from Aristotle’s Prime Mover theory. I’ve found myself discriminated against, looked down upon, and verbally and physically attacked for this belief. My goal in coming here is to show where my beliefs come from and win tolerance for a group of people similar to myself who, from what I have seen and experienced, are treated very poorly. All of my beliefs are logically based and relatively easy to understand.

 

[CopticChristian]

As a non-Catholic I come here to engage in debate (respectfully). Personally, I have no religion. Immediately, I am dubbed an atheist. However, I do believe in something that exists outside of our universe (an “it” if you will). This belief stems from Aristotle’s Prime Mover theory. I’ve found myself discriminated against, looked down upon, and verbally and physically attacked for this belief. My goal in coming here is to show where my beliefs come from and win tolerance for a group of people similar to myself who, from what I have seen and experienced, are treated very poorly. All of my beliefs are logically based and relatively easy to understand.

My friend. I read all your posts. You say you came to engage in debate. Here is what I find.

You appear to favor homosexuality as an alternate lifestyle.
You appear to favor children opposing their parents wishes.
You have offered support and contrary advice in your posting.
You have discounted someone offering you prayers and blessings rudely.

You were raised Catholic and suggest that the Pope’s opinion is like any other human.

I believe you would do better to engage in a debate by asking a question. You may disagree, you may protest, you may agree.

In consideration that you are posting in Catholic answers, I have yet to see you seek an answer and if you disagree out of respect the least you can say for instance would be,

I understand that The Catholic Church is against Homosexuality, it is my opinion that it is OK…because…

I understand that you believe that the Pope is the vicar of Christ and head of your Church, in my opinion he is just another person…because…

This would get you some debate.

 

[Nimeniton]

I’ve noticed that there are a lot of non-Catholics here, and many of them seem to just want to argue with Church teachings. I can’t help but think they’re here to convert us.

However, I know that not all the non-Catholics are like that–I just can’t figure out why else they spend their time on a Catholic message board. So I thought I’d ask.

What brings you, as a non-Catholic, to Catholic Answers Forums?

I had left the Catholic church over 30 years ago. A couple of years ago my brother asked me to attend his son’s christening. I was very surprised how old the children were compared to when I was a child when I was a youngster. After a little digging I noticed that the current Pope was saying that there was hope that unbaptised babies could go to heaven. Whilst I approved of this compassionate move, it did seem to contradict previous Church teachings which I have explored elswhere on this forum.