Non-Catholics: Why are you here?

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AWguitar007

I too read your posts and have come to the conclusion that when it comes to pornography being a “non-extreme”, you are totally right!:rolleyes:

You know, me watching porn upsets my wife and she hates when I do, but she just needs to understand that it isn’t really harmful, that’s just her opinion. If she just realized that I feel happy when I watch porn then she wouldn’t be upset, but her strict opinion keep getting in the way. Then when our kids watch us get divorced they could see it was because mommy just didn’t get it.

Porn not harmful?
 
CopticChristian said:
I believe that you may be leaning Catholic without knowing it. If you were to look at your Protestant Doctrine it would conclude Faith alone.:eek:

The Catholic Doctrine is saved by grace alone, through faith alone, working in love not of your doing it is a gift of God.👍

Your words are “saved by grace” and if you read carefully your subconscious stated “not…with any one faith” 👍
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That’s a very insightful distinction.

I remember a few years back, a Protestant friend challenged me to tell the story of how I was saved, and I replied, I hope not too flipantly, that four books had already been written about the story, and that I reckon that Matthew Mark Luke and John told it better than I could, since they were there.

Faith and Grace are not interchangeable, and it seems to me a teeny bit aggrandizing to speak of our own faith as how we were “saved.” It’s Jesus that saved us. We need faith, yes, but faith comes from hearing the word of God, and faith unto salvation comes from hearing the story of Christ crucified, not from telling stories about our own faith. His Grace is the first word and the Last.
 
Roy5 said:
I have come to believe two things.

(1) Different strokes for different folks. My difficulty with the Catholicism on my father’s side is that it seems to forbid real freedom of belief. If a Catholic refuses to accept any ex cathedra doctrine he or she is wrong! In other words, serious independent thinking is very limited.
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Now, I enjoy weighing and pondering and even doubting, without feeling guilty or fear of heresy or whatnot. Catholicism really doesn't tolerate that. Millions of Catholic people do because they weigh and ponder and doubt, too, but the official position of the church is to accept what the church says - period! That troubles me. I am troubled by narrow-mindedness in such areas where the truth is so complex. With maybe 100 millions galaxies out there, we need humility. Churches may preach humility but often reflect arrogance.

(2**) Along the same line, Catholicism can seem rather legalistic**. What is mean is that there is only one way, say, to perform a Mass - the same everywhere in every church every Sunday morning. Granted, this has the advantage of conformity, but I rather like the idea that worship patterns aren't set in stone, that you don't have to read specific scriptures every Sunday in every church. I am rather impressed by the notion that there should be latitude for the spirit of God to work. If the pastor feels inspired to speak on a different text, do it. Otherwise this can seem likes a liturgical legalism. Is it all that different from the legalism Pharisees practiced and Christ spoke against?

  I've had to choose between Catholicism and Protestantism with both traditions represented in my heritage. I have leaned toward what some would call liberal (mainline)Protestantism, the sort that appreciates other faiths, that seeks to put the teachings of Christ into practice, that is less concerned with doctrines and liturgy and more with loving God and one another, that is disturbed when too much emphasis is placed upon ancient traditions and even some beliefs that were relevant or believable 2000 years ago but no longer are today, etc. Evangelical Protestantism tends to have the same basic problem as Catholicism. There is only one way and that is their way.

  Personally, I expect to greet plenty of Hindus and Muslims, Jews and Sikhs, yes, animists and perhaps even atheists in heaven. I'm happy to leave that up to God. We are saved by God's grace and not by doctrines, piety or by affiliation with any one faith.

  God bless people of every creed, color, culture and country. Religion should be a bridge and not a barrier. After all, we're all children of the same God.  If Catholicism would 'loosen up' I would find it more attractive. I know that few CAFers will agree with me, but I've shared my sentiment.
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Thank you for speaking your mind. It can take a lot of courage to do that and I commend you for it.

About legalism: check out Theology of the Body.
A good place to start:
Theology of the Body for Beginners, revised edition
This is a good one to read next:
Good News on Sex & Marriage, revised edition
They’re both short books.

As for the Mass, there are different ways to celebrate it. Novus Ordu of the Roman Rite. Have you heard of Tridentine Masses? What about St. John Chrysostom’s Divine Liturgy? Liturgy of pre-sanctified gifts?
See attached .pdf about different particular churches within the Catholic Church and different liturgical “rites”. Each rite has at least 1 *form *(the correct word may be variant, but I’m not sure) of the Mass. Correct me if I’m wrong: there are 4 or 5 within the Byzantine Rite.
 
Vman358
Code: 
Thank you for your kind response.

Yes, I'm aware of the various traditions of the Mass, including the Tridentine Mass. Actually, I am old enough to recall it from my childhood. I recall a small missal, printed in red and black, with Latinon one side and English on the other. I recall that the priest spoke primarily facing the altar. At that time our town had a parochial school, many nuns, and 2-3 priests. Today the school is closed, there are no nuns and one priests is in charge of parishes in two towns.

Again, my main point. I'm aware that for many people formality and specific repeated ritual provides familiarity and comfort. You find some of this in mainline Protestantism, especially among, say, Episcopalians and Lutherans. I am attracted to 'free church worship' where there is a freedom to explore and experience different forms of worship. Is God really concerned about our litanies or abouit our hearts? I'm inclined to think that the Holy Spirit should be permitted to move as it chooses and not in accord with rigid rituals.

 But, if people want such regimented worship, no problem. I'm speaking for myself alone. I know this invites charges of heresy or egotism or rebelliousness, but so be it. I'm only interested in the judgement of God, who is merciful and loving. So, I fret not.
 
Roy5 said:
Vman358
Code: 
Thank you for your kind response.

Yes, I'm aware of the various traditions of the Mass, including the Tridentine Mass. Actually, I am old enough to recall it from my childhood. I recall a small missal, printed in red and black, with Latinon one side and English on the other. I recall that the priest spoke primarily facing the altar. At that time our town had a parochial school, many nuns, and 2-3 priests. Today the school is closed, there are no nuns and one priests is in charge of parishes in two towns.

Again, my main point. I'm aware that for many people formality and specific repeated ritual provides familiarity and comfort. You find some of this in mainline Protestantism, especially among, say, Episcopalians and Lutherans. I am attracted to 'free church worship' where there is a freedom to explore and experience different forms of worship. Is God really concerned about our litanies or abouit our hearts? I'm inclined to think that the Holy Spirit should be permitted to move as it chooses and not in accord with rigid rituals.

 But, if people want such regimented worship, no problem. I'm speaking for myself alone. I know this invites charges of heresy or egotism or rebelliousness, but so be it. I'm only interested in the judgement of God, who is merciful and loving. So, I fret not.
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Roy its HONEST. 👍
 
I went to google and asked why do catholics say the rosary where is that in the bible?I was brought to this site.That is the (only) reason im visiting your site.
 
I joined in March 2010 because I was interested in Catholicism. Not long after, I attended part of the Easter Vigil (left early, didn’t realize it was so long!) but I loved it and decided to start RCIA with my husband. RCIA started in late July 2010. We went through the entire course but on Holy Thursday 2011 decided not to convert. Since then he has somewhat fallen away from wanting to attend church at all, and I’ve been attending an Anglican church on and off. Lately, I’ve been rethinking my decision to not convert. At the time I decided not to convert, I was having some marital problems. They have been resolved for the most part. So sometimes I wonder if I was just scared and ran away.

I may end up converting after all. As for my husband, he may, but probably not anytime soon. We shall see.
So basically, I joined this forum because I wanted to be a Catholic, and then after I changed my mind, I stuck around anyway.
 
Pamela1 said:
I went to google and asked why do catholics say the rosary where is that in the bible?I was brought to this site.That is the (only) reason im visiting your site.
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You can go here:
newadvent.org/cathen/13184b.htm
Title The Rosary; subtitles In the Western Church and In the Greek Church, Catholic and schismatic.
The info is from the original Catholic Encyclopedia, ca. 1910. The site belongs to sincere Catholic laymen AFAIK.
Then go to your library for the latest Encyclopedia for comparison.

As to the Bible, the word is not found there.

Just before Jesus gave his hearers a model prayer- in the Sermon on the Mount- he said, “But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.” My own opinion is that any prayer cycle that needs or even encourages the use of bead chains to enable keeping one’s place is “vain repetition”. Asking God for the same help in several separate prayers is not, IMO. (Also Paul’s opinion, where he said “be constant in prayer”.) Some here have disagreed with me on the point.🙂

It’s worth noting that Buddhists and Hindus use rosaries and prayer wheels to the same effect.
 
I showed up back in 2005, after someone suggested that if I wanted a Catholic answer, that the logical place to go, was a site called Catholic Answers.
I actually thought that was a kind of weird thing to say, but I ggoogled “catholic answers”, & found a whole wonderful community of believers.
I have been here ever since, & consider this to be my “home on the web”.👍
 
To learn about the Catholic faith. My family’s Catholic, but I was the only one who ended up growing up in places primarily Baptist in the South and never got a chance to learn about this religion. I’m not Baptist, but those are the only churches I’ve been to.
 
noprem said:
As to the Bible, the word is not found there.
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Neither is “Auxliary/Special Pioneer”, “The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society”, “Governing Body”, “Time Cards” for door to door ministry and many, many others things that JW’s hold dear.

Once again, if it doesn’t appear in the bible, that does not in of itself make it wrong, for by that line of reasoning, pretty much all that you practice yourself would be invalid. This cuts both ways my friend.
 
noprem said:
You can go here:
newadvent.org/cathen/13184b.htm
Title The Rosary; subtitles In the Western Church and In the Greek Church, Catholic and schismatic.
The info is from the original Catholic Encyclopedia, ca. 1910. The site belongs to sincere Catholic laymen AFAIK.
Then go to your library for the latest Encyclopedia for comparison.

As to the Bible, the word is not found there.

Just before Jesus gave his hearers a model prayer- in the Sermon on the Mount- he said, “But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.” My own opinion is that any prayer cycle that needs or even encourages the use of bead chains to enable keeping one’s place is “vain repetition”. Asking God for the same help in several separate prayers is not, IMO. (Also Paul’s opinion, where he said “be constant in prayer”.) Some here have disagreed with me on the point.🙂

It’s worth noting that Buddhists and Hindus use rosaries and prayer wheels to the same effect.
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I can understand your looking from the outside in. The mind is a wonderful thing. It focuses on many things at one time. Imagine where you grew up, some town and at the same time imagine where you went to school, then imagine where you go to Church all at the same time you can do it. In the midst of all of these recollections imagine Christ on the Cross dying for all. You can hold all of these images and the one that prevails is Christ who made it possible for you to have recollections of all these images at the same time and how He made them possible.

The rosary is like this. The Meditation is on mystery. The mystery of the Agony in the Garden is mainatined in the mind as the prayers are said. There is a mystery as you pray and imagine that mystery simultaneously. All the prayers that are said are devoted to the miracle of the Incarnation that made all these mysteries possible.

We don’t know how to pray as we ought and the Spirit turns even our repetitious groans into prayer.👍

Do you believe that holding the image of the Agony in the Garden once, twice, three times is vain repetition. The mystery is held in thought throught one decat of prayer. Is this vain? Do you equate thinking, imagining, holding the memories of what was done for us vain. How often should we recall the Crucifixion? Is recalling the Crucifixion over and over again vain? Do you believe that to meditate thought after thought on the Savior, his birth life, resurection thought after thought is vain. Please tell me that you do not believe this.😃

How often do you as a Non-catholic hold those images in your mind compared to someone that says a daily rosary. Does our God deserve to be recalled for His work as often as we can or not?🤷

Lord help not my belief, help my unbelief you should pray.👍
 
CopticChristian said:
I can understand your looking from the outside in. The mind is a wonderful thing. It focuses on many things at one time. Imagine where you grew up, some town and at the same time imagine where you went to school, then imagine where you go to Church all at the same time you can do it. In the midst of all of these recollections imagine Christ on the Cross dying for all. You can hold all of these images and the one that prevails is Christ who made it possible for you to have recollections of all these images at the same time and how He made them possible.

The rosary is like this. The Meditation is on mystery. The mystery of the Agony in the Garden is mainatined in the mind as the prayers are said. There is a mystery as you pray and imagine that mystery simultaneously. All the prayers that are said are devoted to the miracle of the Incarnation that made all these mysteries possible.

We don’t know how to pray as we ought and the Spirit turns even our repetitious groans into prayer.👍
Do you believe that holding the image of the Agony in the Garden once, twice, three times is vain repetition. The mystery is held in thought throught one decat of prayer. Is this vain? Do you equate thinking, imagining, holding the memories of what was done for us vain. How often should we recall the Crucifixion? Is recalling the Crucifixion over and over again vain? Do you believe that to meditate thought after thought on the Savior, his birth life, resurection thought after thought is vain. Please tell me that you do not believe this.😃

How often do you as a Non-catholic hold those images in your mind compared to someone that says a daily rosary. Does our God deserve to be recalled for His work as often as we can or not?🤷

Lord help not my belief, help my unbelief you should pray.👍
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Nice post, Coptic. And I think you allude to the fact that the Meditation should be done slowly. Perhaps it takes a full minute. Perhaps an hour. Perhaps even longer. Makes me think that it’s worse to rush through the Rosary, than to neglect doing the Rosary at all.
 
Thinking of the OP and the question that started this insightful thread, it occurs to me that anyone coming here is “seeking-” knowledge, answers, spiritual peace, something. Something that they aren’t getting from whatever faith, or anti-faith, they currently profess. If they are perfectly content in their current theology (or non-theology), why bother to spend time here?

I don’t spend time on atheist forums, Buddhist forums, Protestant forums, Wiccan forums, etc. etc. That’s because I don’t feel that I’m missing any essential truth outside of Christianity, specifically the original, and now nearly 2000-years-in-formation Christianity that is Catholicism. There is still so much about Catholic doctrine that I have to learn. But somehow, despite all the mystery, this faith feels right to me. If it didn’t feel right, that would make me very restless. But it’s a good fit for me, so why would I spend time on anything else?

I think it’s wonderful that so many of different beliefs find acceptance and tolerance here. Perhaps that’s part of the attraction of CAF as well. I don’t know how forums of other faiths are, and I briefly visited one atheist forum which I’m sure wasn’t representative, as it was full of mockery and vulgarity, largely directly against the clergy. I don’t otherwise visit those forums, so I don’t know how tolerant and accepting they are.
 
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