Non-denominational Christians

[awantz]

God has put the Pope in charge of us.

If your boss puts a supervisor in charge of you to tell you what your tasks are each day, how do you think he will react if you keep going over your supervisor’s head? If you are continually nagging the boss to tell you things that your supervisor has already told you, and saying, “Well, the boss has more authority than the supervisor, so I will not listen to my supervisor. I will only listen to the boss.”

I don’t nag God to find out things I’ve already heard from the Pope.

 

[awantz]

God a liar? Far from it. In fact Scripture is clear that this application of renenacting the Last Supper in the form of the Eucharist was given to the Apostles, and they merely passed it on.
I could be wrong but am I correct in sensing that you have a “Bible Only” mentality? If that is the case then of course you would have a problem with this because the word “catholic” wasn’t even perscribed to Christ’s Church until decades later by one of the disciples of John the Apostle…a quite reliable source I may add…
P7

No, I do not have a Bible only mentality. I am continualy refering to the Bible, because I was told in another thread that it is best to use scripture. So, I do.

 

[awantz]

Very good!

So let me ask you this, is the one church which Christ established, authoritative, visible, apostolic, infallible on teachings of faith and morals, and consistent in doctrine?

If Christ is all the head, all of these must be true. Otherwise, Jesus is not the Son of God and was just a false prophet.

Are all Christian churches a visible sign of unity to the world?
Do all Christian churches have apostolic authority?
Are all Christian churches infallible?
Are all Christian churches consistent in their teachings of right and wrong?

Let’s say I want to know if embryonic stem cell research is moral or immoral in the eyes of Jesus and don’t know where to turn. So I go talk to my evangelical buddy and he tells me that the Bible is the sole rule of faith and morals as well the only source of all Christian infallibility.

So I crack open my Bible and can’t find a single word on embryonic stem cell research. What now?

Well, the infallible Bible does tell me that it is actually the Church that is the pillar and bulwark of all truth (1Tim 3:15), the final source of authority (Mt 18:17-18) as well consistent in teachings (1Tim 1:3).

So I open the phone book and to the “Church” section with listings for 396 different churches in my area:

Churches-Baptist (66)
Churches-Baptist-General (63)
Churches-Catholic (47)
Churches-Church Of Christ (22)
Churches-Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints (16)
Churches-Episcopal (12)
Churches-Lutheran (73)
Churches-Methodist (65)
Churches-Pentecostal (11)
Churches-Presbyterian (21)

Which one do I go to? Will I get the same answer from all 396 churches?

I know that my church would give you the same answer as the Catholic Church would. People in other threads have told me that they thought I was a Catholic until I told them otherwise. My beliefs are so similar to those of the Catholic Church.

 

[awantz]

The Catholic Church welcomes everyone. And non-denoms don’t welcome Catholics. I know because i have been to many of them… As soon as i say i am Catholic (and won’t be convinced to convert to their way of thinking), i am ostracized…

I know that the Catholic Church excludes others, because I’ve been to many of them. I know my non-denominational church welcomes Catholics, because we have a couple of people who are Catholic who attend on a regular basis and they have even said themselves that they feel quite welcome.

 

[aubrey]

I am a former Assembly Of God, and have done a lot of research on many churches, it is my experience that most non denominational churches were started because a few people got mad at the church they were in. There is no authority in these churches, they are started by small groups of people and if you look long enough and hard enough you will find a church that will allow you to do anything. if we would just stick to following the laws of God we would all be better off. My brother in law is a non denom pastor and he will tell you other churches are to strict and have too many rules. (but he quit speaking to me when I became Catholic) now thats Christian love.

 

[c659smith]

The Catholic Church excludes no one. You or anyone else can come into a Catholic Church any time you please. Come to Mass, see a baptism, watch groups getting confirmed, see a wedding, talk with a brother, Deacon, priest, or any lay person.we Catholics deny no-one. All races, countries, and yes no matter where you go from Spain to Mexico and from Poland to America they all have one thing in common and that is no matter what language, accent, or a catherdal in Rome to a hut in Africa the Mass and all the Sacraments given are the same. So all can paticipate. One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. The bible readings are the same being taught for any paticular day. We all say the roasary, the stations of the cross, and celebrate being a family in Christ.

Today one can not go into a Baptist or and other Protestant Church without all being different. Different rules and yes the protesting church is fracturing/dividing so badly now it is about to callapse upon itself. Remember Christ did not come to change the law but to allow us salvation while practicing it.

There is certain truths that are taught such as Abortion is wrong we do not change it because times are different it is wrong anytime.

What teachings are these non denominational churches teaching except accept Christ do what makes you feel good and leave your money in the basket.

Yes following the Catholic Church teaching is not easy and at times frustrating but Jesus said pick up your cross and follow me.

 

[jack_hawkins]

Have u ever taken RCIA (series of) classes? If not, you don’t know the Catholic religion and therefore, cannot say that it makes less sense than the non-denom does… besides, there is no such thing as non-denom… but then, oh well, there also is no such thing as church-ES…
There is ONE Church… and for 1520 + years, everyone knew its name …

(emphasis added by myself) that’s a very big assumption
care to look at my profile?
it’s missing the point to say there’s no such thing as non-denominational, but never mind - you’re not the first one to post that:thumbsup:

 

[jack_hawkins]

This is very interesting. Even though there is no mention (explicit or otherwise) that the Apostles were all totally equal in authority, or that Christ established several, eronious, fallible churches, with no real earthly authority; you seem to be okay with that idea, even though the evidence we do have would tell otherwise.

you’re sadly completely missing the point:thumbsup: (as well constructing several more straw men arguments)

 

[jack_hawkins]

You’re aware that they hear the Confessions of married people, though, right? (Mine, for instance …)

It’s quite possible that they know more about marriage than those of us who have only ever experienced the difficulties of one marriage in our lifetime.

If you think that gives the clergy the insight I’m talking about then we are talking at cross purposes

distracted:

It depends on how long you are talking about. The Bible doesn’t specify how long a couple can/should abstain

it doesn’t specify exactly how long but it does say it should only be for short periods during fasting

 

[guanophore]

I am a former Assembly Of God, and have done a lot of research on many churches, it is my experience that most non denominational churches were started because a few people got mad at the church they were in. There is no authority in these churches, they are started by small groups of people and if you look long enough and hard enough you will find a church that will allow you to do anything. if we would just stick to following the laws of God we would all be better off. My brother in law is a non denom pastor and he will tell you other churches are to strict and have too many rules. (but he quit speaking to me when I became Catholic) now thats Christian love.

Welcome home Aubrey. I am sorry your brother in law stopped speaking to you, but may you find many more brothers, sisters, mothers and fathers!

 

[apricot_yogurt]

Jack, one who is celibate can have great insight via the Holy Spirit. Jesus was after all celibate-so should we disregard his advice?
As a Doctor do people come to you for advice because you know all about them, or because you know all about their condition? As you have studied medicine to become an expert, so these priests have studied sin. As you might know the best medicine to help them, so it is that priests can give you the spiritual medicine you need. Their power comes not from themselves, but from the Holy Spirtit.

 

[Wisdom]

When I look at Jesus in the gospels I see him breaking through the laws when necessary - he quoted the example of David and his men eating the shew bread. So on that basis I anticipate a similar paradigm in the Church’s doctrines.

Actually catholics still endorse this to a pont its called the principle of double effect.For example Pope PIux XII gave Jews Baptismal certificates to help save their lives. Ordinarily one does not practice to deceive but you do break the ordianry rules on occasion but they usually are under extraordinary circumstances.

 

[jack_hawkins]

Jack, one who is celibate can have great insight via the Holy Spirit. Jesus was after all celibate-so should we disregard his advice?
As a Doctor do people come to you for advice because you know all about them, or because you know all about their condition? As you have studied medicine to become an expert, so these priests have studied sin. As you might know the best medicine to help them, so it is that priests can give you the spiritual medicine you need. Their power comes not from themselves, but from the Holy Spirtit.

to look at a medical analogy, patients often get more helpful advice about how to live with their condition day to day from patient self-help groups/associations - as only patients really know what it’s like to live with a condition
do you think that abstinence is easy? do you think it doesn’t strain a marriage?

 

[jack_hawkins]

Actually catholics still endorse this to a pont its called the principle of double effect.For example Pope PIux XII gave Jews Baptismal certificates to help save their lives. Ordinarily one does not practice to deceive but you do break the ordianry rules on occasion but they usually are under extraordinary circumstances.

yes putting compassion and love before rules - that is true Christianity

 

[Wisdom]

I know that the Catholic Church excludes others, because I’ve been to many of them. I know my non-denominational church welcomes Catholics, because we have a couple of people who are Catholic who attend on a regular basis and they have even said themselves that they feel quite welcome.

Of course your church does not exclude non-practicing catholics your trying to convert them. And guess what the Catholic Church does not exclude anyone either for precisely the same reason we would like to convert you. We are not the Mormon Temple for crying out loud that carry on secret rituals. I am afraid you have been misled by your Jack Chick tracts. Feel free to come to Sunday Mass your are more than welcome desptie whatever misrepresentation you have read. I have never read a sign xyz is not allowed in the catholic church. However that was the case in protestant church’s in the south who would not accept people of color in their white protestant church’s. The truth hurts it anyone has been exlusionary in this country it is the white protestant church.Thus the whole phenomena of the white and black protestant churchs many times seperated by a few blocks.
The catholic church is universal as the name implies everyone is welcome.

 

[Wisdom]

yes putting compassion and love before rules - that is true Christianity

Double effect is part of church law for the precise reason to prevent this from happening. Thus someone breaks into your home and theatens your families life you kill in self defense. As in a way the love and well being of your family comes before the commandment of thou shall not kill.

 

[IanS]

you’re sadly completely missing the point:thumbsup: (as well constructing several more straw men arguments)

…and you never seem to get to it:thumbsup:

 

[Pryority7]

Of course your church does not exclude non-practicing catholics your trying to convert them. And guess what the Catholic Church does not exclude anyone either for precisely the same reason we would like to convert you. We are not the Mormon Temple for crying out loud that carry on secret rituals. I am afraid you have been misled by your Jack Chick tracts. Feel free to come to Sunday Mass your are more than welcome desptie whatever misrepresentation you have read. I have never read a sign xyz is not allowed in the catholic church. However that was the case in protestant church’s in the south who would not accept people of color in their white protestant church’s. The truth hurts it anyone has been exlusionary in this country it is the white protestant church.Thus the whole phenomena of the white and black protestant churchs many times seperated by a few blocks.
The catholic church is universal as the name implies everyone is welcome.

Yeah, that pretty much says it…

 

[jack_hawkins]

…and you never seem to get to it:thumbsup:

oh dear being annoying is more important than admitting that you just make up things that people are meant to have said?
oh well best to ignore you in future I think:thumbsup:

 

[IanS]

oh dear being annoying is more important than admitting that you just make up things that people are meant to have said?
oh well best to ignore you in future I think:thumbsup:

Well I guess you’ve accused me of being just about everything by now. I’m sorry if the truth is so annoying to you. It is quite obvious you will only listen to what is pleasing to your ear and you seriously need to stop it with this explicit nonsense. If St. Peter himself were raised from the dead and told you he was the “Head Among Equals” you would probably call him a liar to his face.

You come on here and claim you are not a Bible-only Christian, yet you accept nothing less than for the Bible to give a detailed description of Peter’s ordination ceremony and chronologically list all the Popes. I already tried to suggest you read the writings of the Church Fathers, but you reject that. I’ve suggested you study the Sacred Traditions of the Church, but you reject that. I’ve tried to explain that all of the evidence that we have (Biblical, traditional, historical, archeological) as Christians points much more heavily in favor of the Catholic Tradition and you just treat me like I’m being silly and obnoxious with one-liners and .

I’m actually starting to feel sorry for you. I apologize, I will admit I was starting to stoop to your level. I’ll stop doing that now.

Peace