Non Sola Scriptura?

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Protestants believe in Sola Scriptura (SS), and ask what does Tradition tell us that Scripture does not? A common answer I’ve heard is the Canon of the New Testament itself is not mentioned in Scripture, therefore SS is refuted. Perhaps I will play the Devil’s Advocate here, but what else does Tradition tell us that is not mentioned in Scripture?
 
To begin with, for a very long time there was no Bible at all 🤷

Christ and the Apostles founded the Church by preaching and exacting faith in their doctrines. No book told as yet of the Divinity of Christ, the redeeming value of His Passion, or of His coming to judge the world; nor are the words “Trinity,” “Incarnation,” “Ascension,” or “Bible” found in the Bible…these and all similar revelations had to be believed on the word of the Apostles and their successors, the bishops, some of the most excellent of which are called the Fathers of the Church.

As immediate, implicit submission of the mind was in the lifetime of the Apostles the only necessary token of faith, there was no room whatever for what is now called private judgment. This is quite clear from the words of Scripture: “Therefore, we also give thanks to God without ceasing: because, that when you had received of us the word of the hearing of God, you received it not as the word of men, but (as it is indeed) the word of God” (1 Thessalonians 2:13). The word of hearing is received through a human teacher and is believed on the authority of God, who is its first author (cf. Romans 10:17). In the time of the Apostles, faith consisted in submitting to authorized teaching.

Furthermore, if we read Scripture, we find that Scripture Alone is self-defeating.

For instance, Matthew. 28:20 teaches: “observe all I have commanded” but, as we see in John 20:30; 21:25, not all that Jesus taught is in Scripture…so there must be things outside of Scripture that we must observe…and which were transmitted “by word of mouth” (2 Thessalonians 2:15) or even by writing without being in Scripture (1 Cor. 5:9-11 for instance shows that a prior letter written to Corinth is equally authoritative - but it is not part of the Bible; Col. 4:16 shows that a prior letter written to Laodicea is equally authoritative but it is not part of the Bible).

In 1 Corinthians 11:2 Paul praises his brothers for remembering him in everything and for holding to the traditions just as he passed them on, and in Philippians 4:9 he adds that whatever they have learned or received or heard from him, or seen in him, they should put it into practice. Where is there any reference to Scripture at all?

Even further: in 1 Tim. 3:14-15 Paul feels moved to explain why he is putting in writing some teachings, clarifying that he does hope to visit them and instruct them in person soon, and that the sole reason he is writing these things down is for them to already have some instructions in case he is delayed.

The Church Fathers had all of this very clearly in mind. For instance: Irenaeus, disciple of John the Evangelist, writes in AD 189:
It is possible, then, for everyone in every church, who may wish to know the truth, to contemplate the tradition of the apostles which has been made known to us throughout the whole world.
But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the successions of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner …] assemble other than where it is proper, by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul—that church which has the tradition and the faith with which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. For with this Church, because of its superior origin, all churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world. And it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition. …]
it is not necessary to seek the truth among others which it is easy to obtain from the Church; since the apostles, like a rich man [depositing his money] in a bank, lodged in her hands most copiously all things pertaining to the truth, so that every man, whosoever will, can draw from her the water of life. . . . For how stands the case? Suppose there arise a dispute relative to some important question among us, should we not have recourse to the most ancient churches with which the apostles held constant conversation, and learn from them what is certain and clear in regard to the present question?
[The spiritual man] shall also judge those who give rise to schisms …] and who for trifling reasons, or any kind of reason which occurs to them, cut in pieces and divide the great and glorious body of Christ, and so far as in them lies, destroy it …] For they can bring about no ‘reformation’ of enough importance to compensate for the evil arising from their schism. …] True knowledge is that which consists in the doctrine of the apostles, and the ancient constitution of the Church throughout all the world, and the distinctive manifestation of the body of Christ according to the successions of the bishops, by which they have handed down that Church which exists in every place.
Where the Church is, there is the Spirit of God; where the Spirit of God is, there is the Church and all grace.
 
The Trinity comes to mind. 🙂

Also, the immorality of polygamy is another one. The Bible nowhere explicitly condemns it, but all Christians believe it is wrong. (Well, I take that back, there are some fringe groups who argue for it.)

Those are just two so far that are not found explicitly in scripture, yet are held and believed by all Christians. Of course, Catholics would add the Immaculate Conception, the Assumption, and the Perpetual virginity of Mary to the list. And purgatory. All of those are alluded to in Sacred Scripture, but not made explicit.
 
what else does Tradition tell us that is not mentioned in Scripture?
Just for starters, take a gander at this. The fact is, the Scriptures simply record what the Apostle’s taught orally; it’s not a case of Tradition teaching 50% of what the believer needs to know, and Scripture the other 50%. Nor does Tradition trump Scripture: Jesus consistently used Scripture when he dissed Satan and the Tradition of the Pharisees. If Scripture was His touchstone, why would we settle for anything less?
The Trinity comes to mind. 🙂
While it’s true that the term “trinity” does not occur in the Bible, still, Scripture has abundant verses that make it clear that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all divine.

What I’ve always found fascinating is: these ecumenical councils often took years to solidify their doctrines, and some of them 100’s of years after the original apostles had died. So just imagine, the very early Christians didn’t even KNOW the Athanasian creed (which claims that you can’t be saved [yes, it uses that term, isn’t that amazing?] unless you believe all that’s written there), and yet, they had eternal life in Christ. Makes ya wonder, doesn’t it…
 
What I’ve always found fascinating is: these ecumenical councils often took years to solidify their doctrines, and some of them 100’s of years after the original apostles had died. So just imagine, the very early Christians didn’t even KNOW the Athanasian creed (which claims that you can’t be saved [yes, it uses that term, isn’t that amazing?] unless you believe all that’s written there), and yet, they had eternal life in Christ. Makes ya wonder, doesn’t it…
Well, that Creed (which does not come forth from a council, by the way) simply states: “whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith”. It then simply proceeds to attempt to express the basic tenets of that faith. The concepts expressed in the Creed were indeed known…and if not, it was because of an invincible ignorance.

So I don’t see your point, and what’s so wondrous about Ecumenical Councils and Creeds. Surely no more wondrous than the Church writing the New Testament and collecting the Canon of the Bible (equally unknown in part to some of the original apostles, as we mention above).

Regarding the Bible, I will further mention:
The very first Christian Bible was produced by the Catholic Church, compiled by Catholic scholars of the 2nd and 3rd century and approved for general Christian use by the Catholic Councils of Hippo (393) and Carthage (397). The very first printed Bible was produced under the auspices of the Catholic Church, printed by the Catholic inventor of the printing press, Johannes Gutenberg. And the very first Bible with chapters and numbered verses was produced by the Catholic Church, the work of Stephen Langton, Cardinal Archbishop of Canterbury. It was this perennial Catholic devotion to the bible which prompted Martin Luther, who certainly cannot be accused of Catholic favouritism, to write in his Commentary of St. John: “We are compelled to concede to the Papists that they have the Word of God, that we received it from them, and that without them we should have no knowledge of it at all.” (source)
 
Tradition tells us all that is in scripture but scripture cannot tell us all that is in Tradition. Scripture is “dead” in that it is no longer being written regarding God’s revelation to man. Tradition, by its very nature, is living. Scripture tells us in many places that it is an incomplete record. The prologue to Luke tells us that Theophilus learned nothing - zip zero, nada, from Luke’s written Gospel. Luke wrote his Gospel only to confirm the Apostolic teaching (Tradtition) that Theolphilus had already received. As well, scripture is also a Tradition, only in written form.
 
Jesus consistently used Scripture when he dissed Satan and the Tradition of the Pharisees. If Scripture was His touchstone, why would we settle for anything less?
Who was the first to distort God’s Word? The serpent. Who was the first in the New Testament to twist the scriptures? The devil. Peter warns against those ignorant and unstable who were outside of Church authority and who twisted and distorted the scriptures.
While it’s true that the term “trinity” does not occur in the Bible, still, Scripture has abundant verses that make it clear that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all divine.
Really? Tell that to the Oneness Pentecostals. Tell that to the Mormons. Tell that to the Jehovah’s witnesses. All use the exact same scriptures. Scripture clear? 30,000 disagreeing denominations prove otherwise. And that is why the devil, as well as the ignorant and the unstable can twist and distort it.
 
Through Tradition and the Magisterium, the Holy Scripture reveals the meaning of Sacred Scripture giving it a deeper understanding through history .As someone said earlier Tradition is alive and will remain so until the lord’s return
www.divinemercypopes.com
 
About the Trinity: in Matthew 28:19 it says to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; so isn’t this a clear example of how Scripture teaches the Trinity? Also, isn’t the main argument for SS that all that is needed to know about salvation is found within Scripture, not Tradition? If so, what elements of Tradition are needed for salvation?

Ha! I sound like a Protestant! :eek:
 
One thing that Scripture alone doesn’t do is interpret itself. Jesus just did not establish Christianity to be a Bible only faith, if He did then He would have passed out Bibles and would not have needed to choose Apostles.
 
One thing that Scripture alone doesn’t do is interpret itself. Jesus just did not establish Christianity to be a Bible only faith, if He did then He would have passed out Bibles and would not have needed to choose Apostles.
He couldn’t have “passed out Bibles,” because as you surely know, Gutenberg hadn’t arrived on the scene yet, the Scriptures (that is the N.T.) hadn’t been compiled yet into a volume (heck, the Gospels and epistles of the N.T. hadn’t even been penned yet, for goo’ness sakes!), and the O.T. was extant for the Jews on unwieldy heavy scrolls that were expensive. Not to mention that the average Joe Blow in Jesus’ time could not read. All of society in that day was generally an oral society.

So, no, of course Jesus wouldn’t have “passed out Bibles.” :rolleyes:
 
He couldn’t have “passed out Bibles,” because as you surely know, Gutenberg hadn’t arrived on the scene yet, the Scriptures (that is the N.T.) hadn’t been compiled yet into a volume (heck, the Gospels and epistles of the N.T. hadn’t even been penned yet, for goo’ness sakes!), and the O.T. was extant for the Jews on unwieldy heavy scrolls that were expensive. Not to mention that the average Joe Blow in Jesus’ time could not read. All of society in that day was generally an oral society.

So, no, of course Jesus wouldn’t have “passed out Bibles.” :rolleyes:
Do you really think that I didn’t know that?
 
About the Trinity: in Matthew 28:19 it says to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; so isn’t this a clear example of how Scripture teaches the Trinity? Also, isn’t the main argument for SS that all that is needed to know about salvation is found within Scripture, not Tradition? If so, what elements of Tradition are needed for salvation?

Ha! I sound like a Protestant! :eek:
Haha it’s ok we’ll forgive you 😉

I do know what you mean, for us who already believe in the Trinity, there is clear references that seem obvious. But even that verse doesn’t really prove the divinity of the three persons, or that they are coequal and coeternal. I actually agree with the JW claim that if you picked up a Bible without ever hearing of Christianity, you wouldn’t come to the conclusion of the doctrine of the Trinity just by reading the bible on your own. I’ve been in debates with JWs, and they always have some way of wiggling out of the clear verses that we see as pointing to the Trinity.

So my point is, the Scriptures alone aren’t enough to come to that belief. We need Tradition guiding us. It IS a biblical concept, and I believe the Bible can be used to demonstrate it. But it’s impossible to come to that conclusion on our own apart from Tradition.

As far as your second point about everything we need for salvation being contained within Sacred Scripture, in a sense that is true. Scripture is MATERIALLY sufficient, but not formally. For example, I just finished painting right now. The canvas and paints and brushes were what I needed to finish it. They were materially sufficient. But on their own, they were dead. They didn’t make the painting. I also needed a reference for my painting, the picture that I’m doing of my cousin at her wedding to make it into something. So I know what the paints are supposed to look like.

But even THAT isn’t enough. I needed to actually paint it also! And interpret the paints and the pictures together to form a cohesive image.

The paints and canvas would be the scriptures in my analogy, the reference photo would be Tradition, and I the painter would be the magisterium, interpreting and forming the two together so there’s no chaos or confusion in the painting. All three are absolutely vital. Try painting without one of those…and you get a really bad painting! 😃 Or at least incomplete.

Obviously not a perfect analogy, but I don’t know, I’m an artist so it helps me get the relationship. 🙂
 
About the Trinity: in Matthew 28:19 it says to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; so isn’t this a clear example of how Scripture teaches the Trinity? Also, isn’t the main argument for SS that all that is needed to know about salvation is found within Scripture, not Tradition? If so, what elements of Tradition are needed for salvation?

Ha! I sound like a Protestant! :eek:
Yes, Matthew 28 does speak of “the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,” but all it does is identify them without explaining in depth. Okay, the Father is God, and we can assume the Son is Jesus, but what is the nature of the Son’s relationship with the Father? Also, what exactly is the Holy Spirit?
 
Really? Tell that to the Mormons. Tell that to the Jehovah’s witnesses. All use the exact same scriptures.
No, they don’t: they’ve got their own, radically different translations (and Mormonism goes heavily by the BoM besides).

Question for ya: how can you trust the individual Catholic to properly interpret the Catechism? IOW, how do you guarantee that the Devil won’t do the same thing with the Cathechism that he does with the Scriptures? 🤷
 
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