Non-theistic foundation of morality?

[IWantGod]

To me? No.

But i think you would agree its not right or wrong either; just undesirable.

I think you would also agree that in respect to something being true it would also be irrational to feel or accept moral guilt for behavior that has no true objective moral standard.

 

[PRmerger]

To me? No.

But if your son wanted to do this to his daughter, you would have to say, “Well, since you discerned that it’s moral, it is therefore the moral thing for you to do”.

Yes?

That is what you are professing here?

 

[inocente]

And yet, following conscience does not always lead to doing good. Therefore, your principle cannot be the only criterion on which to determine what is moral.

But your conscience provides the additional criteria, as many additional criteria as you value. That’s a main reason why not following your conscience is always bad.

 

[inocente]

Or…here’s another definition, technically:

books.google.com/books?id=hkY_GFi_QMsC&pg=PA104&lpg=PA104&dq#v=onepage&q&f=false

Sorry to be technically opaque but I couldn’t see a definition of moral relativism there. Is there something wrong with the definition I quoted from the IEP?

 

[PRmerger]

Sorry to be technically opaque but I couldn’t see a definition of moral relativism there. Is there something wrong with the definition I quoted from the IEP?

Page 104.

“Moral relativism…the view runs ‘Whatever is right for you is right for you’.”

 

[inocente]

Lives without a strong moral foundation tend to be victim to irrational feelings of guilt.
There is also mental illness that includes depression and obsessive compulsive neurosis.

Alternatively, lives with a strong moral foundation tend to be victim to irrational feelings of scrupulosity???

You probably didn’t intend it, but it can’t be good to tell people suffering mental illness to feel bad about themselves.

Depression causes feelings of guilt and low self-worth. Anyone reading this who feels guilty all the time, go see your doctor.

 

[inocente]

Conscience is not an entity “within” yourself, but an act, or a complex homogeneous or heterogeneous system of acts. When the waiter tells himself he can only ever be a waiter, this “telling himself” is an act of conscience. If, given his situation, a different discourse comes to his mind and it emerges through an act of conscience claiming to become flesh, it is not his first act of conscience, but the second or the third… There are so many discourses in your mind waiting for an opportunity to emerge through an act of conscience and become a rule of your behavior, displacing the ones that are currently dominant in you, that it would be difficult for you to say which one of them is “your conscience”.

I looked at various dictionaries online, and none of them define conscience as act(s). They all define it as a sense of what is right and wrong, a set of moral and ethical principles which motivates or inhibits actions. Paul talks of it in the same way: “They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them” (Rom 2).

We have no control over which thoughts bubble up from our unconscious/subconscious mind, but we do have control over which thoughts to act on. Watching news of the latest outrage, thoughts of waging terrible retaliation may bubble up. We can either dwell on them or discard them. I’d say that’s when conscience kicks in, the decision about which is right.

Certainly, we can always change. I understand Christianity as a calling to a permanent conversion. Your conscience has to be transformed and become more and more mature, always needing revision and being subject to continuous transformation. But what shall you become? Which discourses shall be your guide? Shall it be this, or that, or a new one? You need to decide, and you need to accept your responsibility for the decisions you make.

OK, although some may see it more simply as an epiphany, being born again.

But yes, a slave does as ordered and cannot be responsible for his acts, while the gift of freedom comes at the price of accepting we are responsible for everything we are and do.

 

[inocente]

Page 104.

“Moral relativism…the view runs ‘Whatever is right for you is right for you’.”

Thanks. Technically, I didn’t see that as a definition. I mean he’s obviously not neutral, and I think he may have tweaked it a little to make it about individuals rather than cultures/societies.

 

[Aloysium]

Alternatively, lives with a strong moral foundation tend to be victim to irrational feelings of scrupulosity???

You probably didn’t intend it, but it can’t be good to tell people suffering mental illness to feel bad about themselves.

Depression causes feelings of guilt and low self-worth. Anyone reading this who feels guilty all the time, go see your doctor.

I was specifically responding to what I see as an ultra-intellectual approach by Brad to the human qualites of conscience and guilt. I think if my comments are read in that light, they should be clearer.

With regards to your what you say here:
The converse would seem to make more sense, that people who are scrupulous would likely be looking for some sort of solid moral foundation to shore up a depleted sense of self and its related anxieties.
Having a moral compass actually makes things clearer. You know you are a sinner and try the best you can to do God’s will. He will help you deal with useless anxiety.
I’m not sure how you read that I was tell people with mental illness to feel bad about themselves. I was making the observation that they do. This was in response to Brad’s statement that" It’s inconceivable to feel guilt about doing something that you think is morally correct."

I’m not sure it matters, but I thought it important to clarify.

 

[davidv]

But isn’t your conscience a reflection of what you have already decided?

Not in my definition of conscience. Conscience is internal guide for what is right and what is wrong. People fail to follow there consciences every time they chose to do wrong.

If you decide that something is immoral and still do it, you will experience a guilty conscience.

Conscience isn’t about deciding, it is about what is known.

It’s inconceivable to feel guilt about doing something that you think is morally correct.

Following your conscience simply means doing what you have already decided is the correct action.