Non-traditional open to life

[thewanderer]

Agree with this and with choose to love’s response.

Being “open to life” means just that - being open, not closing the door pre-emptively.

I think everyone would agree with that… Maybe I’m wrong but it sounds to me as though many of the people here have assumed that if a couple is currently thinking that they are probably called to have a certain number of children that they are not fully open to life. Just to set the record straight, that is not necessarily true. Being open to life, as was said above, is simply not closing the door to God’s will as to the number of children you will recieve. So long as you do not close the possibility of having more if it so turns out that that is God’s will and are willing to constantly pray for the grace to discern God’s will for you at any given time and desire to accept His will no matter what it is if it should not line up with your previous ideas of it, I see no problem with planning for a smaller family because you currently believe it to be God’s will.

As for all the ideas of ways to help promote a culture of life, I only wish more people would seek out such active ways to help the world around them(myself included!!)

 

[Katie966]

I think everyone would agree with that… Maybe I’m wrong but it sounds to me as though many of the people here have assumed that if a couple is currently thinking that they are probably called to have a certain number of children that they are not fully open to life. Just to set the record straight, that is not necessarily true. Being open to life, as was said above, is simply not closing the door to God’s will as to the number of children you will recieve. So long as you do not close the possibility of having more if it so turns out that that is God’s will and are willing to constantly pray for the grace to discern God’s will for you at any given time and desire to accept His will no matter what it is if it should not line up with your previous ideas of it, I see no problem with planning for a smaller family because you currently believe it to be God’s will.

What some of us are saying is that it is impossible to even plan for any set number of children before being married. It simply cannot be discerned before you’re married because by its very nature, being open to life relies on the circumstances within marriage and on an ongoing assessment of what God calls you to. Many things are so fluid- finances, mental health, physical health, and so forth, that these things also affect family size, in conjunction with God’s plans. And most of these things are “unknown” and therefore must be considered in a current context, and can’t be considered ahead of time.

 

[thewanderer]

I’m sorry if my post did not have the intended effect, I was hoping to end the tangent this thread has taken. The question was to do with alternative ways to show ones devotion to life and help promote the culture of life. It was not about whether or not OP is actually open to life. Everyone has different circumstances, and to be honest it rather sounds as though OP will be lucky if she can even have 2-3 kids. I hope I’m not misinterpreting the posts in this thread, if so, I’m sorry to have wasted your time.

 

[ChiRho]

what does “being called” to have 2-3 kids mean?

 

[Castello]

There seems to be come confusion, helping others, being part of a camp for inner city kids, these are all works of mercy. We are all called to do works of mercy. They do not take the place of lovingly welcoming children that God sends.

 

[Corki]

what does “being called” to have 2-3 kids mean?

What it is **supposed **to mean is that after 2 or 3 kids, the couple prayerfully considers whether or not to have another and is convinced that the answer is “not yet”. Repeat monthly until the question is no longer relevant.

 

[Allegra]

shallow, typical Catholic answer. I dont need to explain why to you…simply what is. Why isn’t that good enough? Just answer the question.

Whoa! Is it just me or is this response completely out of order? I should hope we would all give the typical Catholic response! (and it isn’t shallow at all!)

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

Without making any judgement on the OP’s particular situation, I would also submit that God doesn’t call married people NOT to have children (or Not to have more children). Rather he calls people TO DO things (and sometimes those things require the woman not to get pregnant). If a couple is infertile and not able to have children, God isn’t calling them NOT to give birth to children - but he might be calling them TO adoption. Or if a couple has 3 children, and the wife has a serious medical condition that gives her a reason to avoid pregnancy…it is not that God is calling her NOT to have children, but rather, he might be calling her TO stay healthy to take care of her existing children. Or perhaps, God is calling a woman to take on an extraordinary public role, or an unique and necessary apostolate that is incompatible with having a baby at the same time. Again, God calls the woman TO DO this special thing, but even though he accepts her need to avoid pregnancy, he is not calling her NOT to have a baby. God doesn’t call us NOT to act, He calls us TO act.

Perhaps this is sounds like just semantics. But there really is a difference in the theology of it and in the discernment of what God is calling us to. Not being open to pregnancy is either a negative or neutral passive state that is acceptable when there is a more important need or calling. If we truly believe that God is calling us to this more important need or calling, then we can say that it is within His Will for us to avoid pregnancy, but the avoidance is the passive effect, not the active calling.

 

[tafan]

I’m sorry if my post did not have the intended effect, I was hoping to end the tangent this thread has taken. The question was to do with alternative ways to show ones devotion to life and help promote the culture of life. It was not about whether or not OP is actually open to life. Everyone has different circumstances, and to be honest it rather sounds as though OP will be lucky if she can even have 2-3 kids. I hope I’m not misinterpreting the posts in this thread, if so, I’m sorry to have wasted your time.

Actually, the OP did not ask for ways of showing devotion to life or to help promote a culture of life; she asked specifically about being open to life in ways besides having biological children. Let us show the original poster respect by reading her words accurately. None of the responses seem judgemental nor do they seem like thread drift .

 

[thewanderer]

Actually, the OP did not ask for ways of showing devotion to life or to help promote a culture of life; she asked specifically about being open to life in ways besides having biological children. Let us show the original poster respect by reading her words accurately. None of the responses seem judgemental nor do they seem like thread drift .

Yes, she used the words “open to life”. However, it has already been shown that there was a confusion between the term ‘open to life’ and ‘pro-life’. From the way she asked her question it seemed to me that she was looking for ways to be pro-life, but had not made a clear distinction between these two terms because of their closeness in the work of building up a culture of life.

To me open to life means being open to all lives in a unique way…not only biological children.

I’m pretty sure OP wasn’t looking for a debate about what ‘open to life’ means, but rather she was looking for more practical ideas of how to help promote the culture of life in today’s world.

I’m totally fine with having a discussion about what is necessary to be open to life, and what that really means, I also just wanted to make sure that the OP feels as though she has received a sufficient answer to her question.

 

[Katie966]

I’m sorry if my post did not have the intended effect, I was hoping to end the tangent this thread has taken. The question was to do with alternative ways to show ones devotion to life and help promote the culture of life. It was not about whether or not OP is actually open to life. Everyone has different circumstances, and to be honest it rather sounds as though OP will be lucky if she can even have 2-3 kids. I hope I’m not misinterpreting the posts in this thread, if so, I’m sorry to have wasted your time.

Actually, the title of the OP is “non-traditional open to life”. Oftentimes threads do go off on irrelevant tangents; this is not one of those times. All the posts are directly relevant to the OP. This post is a tangent.

 

[Le_Cracquere]

This does sort of raise a question to which I’ve never been able to decide on a satisfactory answer. Is it wrong for a married couple–both of them–to consider children tooth-grindingly awful company? And if they set aside their private opinions, conduct themselves as the Catholic Church asks, and have children, are they in a state of sin by disliking their children and their company?

If so, does the Church have ways of helping couples to correct such issues? If not, does the Church help couples out with ways of appearing to tolerate (or even like) them? It just seems like a bit much that we’re instructed to do something, but are on our own in dealing with its implications and bearing its burdens.

 

[thewanderer]

Actually, the title of the OP is “non-traditional open to life”. Oftentimes threads do go off on irrelevant tangents; this is not one of those times. All the posts are directly relevant to the OP. This post is a tangent.

yeah… I do realize I’m not one to talk about leading things off topic.

 

[Ellyakamommy]

This does sort of raise a question to which I’ve never been able to decide on a satisfactory answer. Is it wrong for a married couple–both of them–to consider children tooth-grindingly awful company? And if they set aside their private opinions, conduct themselves as the Catholic Church asks, and have children, are they in a state of sin by disliking their children and their company?

If so, does the Church have ways of helping couples to correct such issues? If not, does the Church help couples out with ways of appearing to tolerate (or even like) them? It just seems like a bit much that we’re instructed to do something, but are on our own in dealing with its implications and bearing its burdens.

Interesting question. Are you speaking in terms of hypotheticals or actuals? You may get more visibility and responses if open a new thread with this question

 

[MomaMary8]

Costello is correct in that many of the “non-traditional open to life” ideas fall under the Catholic churches idea of Corporal and Spiritual Works of Mercy

The Corporal Works of Mercy

• Feed the hungry

• Give drink to the thirsty

• Clothe the naked

• Shelter the homeless

• Visit the sick

• Visit the imprisoned

• Bury the dead

The Spiritual Works of Mercy

• Admonish the sinner

• Instruct the ignorant (This and the next work are extremely pertinent categories today, when so many people are confused by what the Church teaches on contraception, abortion, homosexuality, etc.)

• Counsel the doubtful

• Comfort the sorrowful

• Bear wrongs patiently

• Forgive all injuries

• Pray for the living and the dead

• lists above taken from this website: catholicculture.org/culture/liturgicalyear/activities/view.cfm?id=1017

Openness refers to actions in a marriage.

@ Le Cracquere: the Church has a wonderful way of leading couples to loving their children more. It’s called the sacraments! My children have sent me to confession and to the chapel to pray before the Blessed Sacrament many times. I always come out with more love in my heart for my children. (BTW I have 10 children, 4 of whom are teenagers.)

 

[sanctamaria17]

Here’s my take, as an engaged Catholic woman

Right now, I would like a small family too. Right now, that is Obviously, I won’t be using illicit means to do this. I know the reason I think this way is because we’ll still be building finances at that point and we’ll want to take at least the first year to adjust.

There is nothing wrong with having a smaller family. There is nothing wrong with having both spouses work. However, you should still be open. That means discerning each month whether or not you have serious reasons to post-pone, whether you can be flexible, etc. Having sex when you’re fertile does not guarantee a pregnancy. At the same time, it’s about letting God take over.

As long as you’re within the Church guidelines, your reasons for either having or postponing children aren’t anyone’s business. However, it matters that you’re open to whatever God has in store for you.

 

[Castello]

This does sort of raise a question to which I’ve never been able to decide on a satisfactory answer. Is it wrong for a married couple–both of them–to consider children tooth-grindingly awful company? And if they set aside their private opinions, conduct themselves as the Catholic Church asks, and have children, are they in a state of sin by disliking their children and their company?

If so, does the Church have ways of helping couples to correct such issues? If not, does the Church help couples out with ways of appearing to tolerate (or even like) them? It just seems like a bit much that we’re instructed to do something, but are on our own in dealing with its implications and bearing its burdens.

Prayer. Prayer that God takes the bitterness toward children from the hearts and replaces it with love.

 

[BingoBoy]

Cool thread, interesting approach.