Nonreligious, but drawn to Catholicism

[MinkPink]

The past few months have been strange ones for me. For the past ten years, I have responded to an ultraconservative fundamentalist Protestant religious upbringing by shunning religion entirely. I strongly believe one does not have to believe in any religion to be good to others, and I enjoy being good for the sake of being good, it makes me and others around me feel good to do so.

I also find the idea of there being a God extremely unlikely. I can’t see any reason to believe in the Christian God when I don’t (nor does anyone now) believe in Zeus. Ditto the afterlife. I can only imagine that death will be exactly like it was before we were born. Nothingness where I was not particularly bothered by my lack of existence.

I have an incredibly hard time believing that if there is a God he would punish people who just could not for intellectual reasons reconcile the idea that there is a supreme being based on the world we live in and the evidence. Even if there were a God, I find the idea that he needs to send himself down to Earth in the form of a human so we can be forgiven when he can just forgive us very illogical.

All this said, for some bizarre reason, I have been very drawn to the Church. I have been attending Mass for the past couple of months. In times of stress, I find it incredibly comforting. I have been attending a very welcoming church and feel so much warmth when I go. There seems to be a lot of emphasis on social justice and intellectual inquiry and I like that. I have even started to go to RCIA for the inquiry period.

Not sure what I am looking for. Maybe just feedback from both the Catholics and agnostics and Atheists who frequent the forum.

 

[Blacksword]

I know how it is rejecting a fundamentalist upbringing. And yes, coming home to Rome has been a wonderful experience to great for words. It’s the home I’d never even been to! There is so much depth, so much intellectual depth to the Church. I will pray for you that in coming to the Church you will find the God you have doubted for so long. God bless you!

 

[Wolniewicz]

I strongly believe one does not have to believe in any religion to be good to others, and I enjoy being good for the sake of being good, it makes me and others around me feel good to do so.

I have an incredibly hard time believing that if there is a God he would punish people who just could not for intellectual reasons reconcile the idea that there is a supreme being based on the world we live in and the evidence.

I agree, one doesn’t have to be religious to be good to others. And I know many people who are good but not religious. The Catholic Faith doesn’t teach you can’t be good and not believe in God.

Its not that God punishes those who don’t follow him, he loves all of his creations. It is more like this; since he loves us all so much he will give us what we long for. Some one who is close to God wants to be with God when they die, so God grants it, though it may require purgatory, which isn’t God punishing us. But God letting us cleanse our sins away so that we may be even closer to him. Though this is also applied the other way; if one doesn’t believe in God, or perhaps they dislike God. If that was the case, why would they want to be with God when they died? So God also grants them what they wanted in life: which is to not be with him when they die.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

There are a number of former atheists whose writings are quite interesting. One is the little book, Mere Christianity, written in 1943 by C.S. Lewis, who became a member of the Church of England, but by the end of his life had become quite Catholic in his thinking. Well worth reading.

Have you considered the five proofs for the existence of God by philosopher Thomas Aquinas?

aquinasonline.com/Topics/5ways.html

Jim Dandy
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!

 

[Wolniewicz]

There are a number of former atheists whose writings are quite interesting. One is the little book, Mere Christianity, written in 1943 by C.S. Lewis, who became a member of the Church of England, but by the end of his life had become quite Catholic in his thinking. Well worth reading.

I’m not trying to create a debate, but as a former Anglican. I just thought I’d mention that he didn’t become quite Catholic in his thinking, because his beliefs were shared with a lot of other Anglicans of the time which called them selves Anglo-Catholics. Just if you go back to his time, the Anglican church was a lot closer to what Catholics believe than it is today sadly

 

[SanAgustin]

Have you considered the five proofs for the existence of God by philosopher Thomas Aquinas?

aquinasonline.com/Topics/5ways.html

Jim, I was just going to recommend that too! It caused quite an impact on me, and I found it by stumbling around the Summa Theologica not knowing what I was doing!

MinkPink;

What I find amazing, is that even with all these doubts, you feel the calling. Reading the timing of your post is quite a blessing to me, as my wife and I just started teaching 5th grade Religious Ed, and the first class is on “Longing for God” (coming up this Monday). So I wanted to share with the kids what I’m going to share with you from my favorite saint, Saint Augustine of Hippo;

“You have made us for yourself, O Lord, and our hearts are restless until they rest in you.”

Even when you think the idea of God is unlikely, and you don’t know what you are looking for, you are feeling that call from Him and can’t resist it. Like Augustine says, we are made for Him and we’re restless until we find Him. That’s what you’re looking for, and I think you’ll find him in His Church.

It seems like you are in good hands with your parish, and I hope you can resolve your questions during RCIA. I’ll be praying for you.

 

[CalCatholic]

All this said, for some bizarre reason, I have been very drawn to the Church. I have been attending Mass for the past couple of months. In times of stress, I find it incredibly comforting. I have been attending a very welcoming church and feel so much warmth when I go. There seems to be a lot of emphasis on social justice and intellectual inquiry and I like that. I have even started to go to RCIA for the inquiry period.

Not sure what I am looking for.

It appears that the Holy Spirit is filling an empty void in your soul. Distance from God is cold and empty, but when you are in Mass, you are more aware of his presence which brings comfort and peace.

 

[Heuchler]

I want to address your point that it seems useless that Christ would need to come down to forgive us.If we look at it, it can make sense. An action is worse depending on the degree of evil involved in it, and on how important/good the person was. It is outrageous and intolerable that Martin Luther King Jr. was killed, but it is sad when the hobo on the side of the street is killed. If you slap a judge who has more power, you are in worse trouble than if you slap a hobo who has no power. Now to make up for any of these acts (for while we are looking for forgiveness, we are looking more to make up for our wrong because we love God, it is not the relationship between a master and a debtor) we have to make an equal attempt at forgiveness. So, we offended the greatest thing that ever could be, who has the most power. So, we have to offer something of equal worth in a sense. Now in the Jewish tradition, if you stole something, you deserved punishment or death for your sin. But instead of killing people, the Jewish people performed sacrifices. The lamb or calf was put in place of the person who had done wrong and was meant to be their scapegoat. It was in the place of them and used to make up for their wrongs. So, we have offended someone of infinite dignity. So, we need an infinite retribution to make up for our actions. Since we are finite and can never make up for an infinite injustice we need someone infinite to make up for our actions. So, God came down and became one of us so that through his sacrificial death we can make up for our injustice and so that we may one day become like him. I hope this helps you. And keep searching in the Catholic Church, the best way to learn more is by entering the RCIA class, so good luck and I hope you find the truth.

 

[AntalKalnoky]

RCIA’s are begining now Every Parish. It’s Fascinating discovering the realities of the biggest Church on Earth: 1.3 Billion with our Orthodox Brothers.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

I’m not trying to create a debate, but as a former Anglican. I just thought I’d mention that he didn’t become quite Catholic in his thinking, because his beliefs were shared with a lot of other Anglicans of the time which called them selves Anglo-Catholics. Just if you go back to his time, the Anglican church was a lot closer to what Catholics believe than it is today sadly

“Anglo-Catholics” originally became quite Catholic in their thinking . Lewis went further. Lewis had a Catholic understanding of grace. And I wasn’t aware that “Anglo-Catholics” believed in purgatory, as Lewis did (see Letters to Malcolm, published posthumously)???
My reference is C.S. Lewis and the Catholic Church by Joseph Pearce. I’m glad you crossed the Tiber!

 

[Jocko_VT]

I hear you Mink.

I may be sliding out of atheism due to the draw of Catholicism. Interestingly, I think a lot of my atheism is relevant only to the ultra-conservative fundamentalism that surrounded my in my youth. I’ll be starting the inquiry classes in a week or so.

I have to say, though: I wouldn’t be able to do it without the writings of Richard Rohr and Thomas Merton and Hans Kung–and they don’t seem well received by a lot of the Catholics in these forums. It concerns me that I may find myself in a Church that welcomes me, but in which my fellows church members do not really like having me around. I worry that while everyone else is talking about abortion and gay marriage for the 1,000th time, I’ll be the one to say “What about the social teaching of the church–maybe we should talk about that once in a while?” only to draw the ire of everyone else. Likewise, I know who the person is who teaches the RCIA classes, and he is a hard-core Republican who has run for state senate. I worry that his politics are going to be guiding his religious teachings in the class.

So, I feel some ambivalence, but I’m drawn nonetheless.

 

[Blacksword]

I hear you Mink.

I may be sliding out of atheism due to the draw of Catholicism. Interestingly, I think a lot of my atheism is relevant only to the ultra-conservative fundamentalism that surrounded my in my youth. I’ll be starting the inquiry classes in a week or so.

I have to say, though: I wouldn’t be able to do it without the writings of Richard Rohr and Thomas Merton and Hans Kung–and they don’t seem well received by a lot of the Catholics in these forums. It concerns me that I may find myself in a Church that welcomes me, but in which my fellows church members do not really like having me around. I worry that while everyone else is talking about abortion and gay marriage for the 1,000th time, I’ll be the one to say “What about the social teaching of the church–maybe we should talk about that once in a while?” only to draw the ire of everyone else. Likewise, I know who the person is who teaches the RCIA classes, and he is a hard-core Republican who has run for state senate. I worry that his politics are going to be guiding his religious teachings in the class.

So, I feel some ambivalence, but I’m drawn nonetheless.

I will pray for you, may God bless you in your journey! I know how you feel about the lack of emphasis on social teachings and option for the poor. This is a problem with some Catholics and indeed in some parishes, but NOT in the Church herself! It can be hard at times, but we always should try to separate those who are not living up to the call of Christ and his Church from the Church itself. You are very welcome, and you are not alone in your feelings about this. Indeed, in my parish we have a perpetual food pantry and food drives for shelters, and tons of volunteer activities for helping the poor. Never forget that people like Rick Santorum do NOT speak for all Catholics, no matter how much they might like to think they do!

 

[Jocko_VT]

Never forget that people like Rick Santorum do NOT speak for all Catholics, no matter how much they might like to think they do!

*This *is very reassuring!! Thank you!

 

[choliks]

I have an incredibly hard time believing that if there is a God he would punish people who just could not for intellectual reasons reconcile the idea that there is a supreme being based on the world we live in and the evidence. Even if there were a God, I find the idea that he needs to send himself down to Earth in the form of a human so we can be forgiven when he can just forgive us very illogical.

More than forgiveness, I think it’s all about Love. Forgiveness is a fruit of Love. God humbled himself to become one of us and die for us to show us one thing: He loves us. For there is no greater love than to give one’s life for his friends.

 

[MinkPink]

Thank you all for your responses, particularly Jocko who seems to share the same experience/feelings as I do. We will see if RCIA resolves some of the questions I have. There are just a lot of doubts dealing with the specifics as well as the idea that if, say, I lived in a different part of the world, perhaps I would be feeling a sort of longing toward Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, etc instead of Catholicism.

I first took the plunge and went to my first Mass 3 years ago out of curiosity and had to sit next to someone and ask for explanations of what was going on because I was a mess trying to keep up with the standing and kneeling. Though I loved the church I went to that day and the community I felt there, I did not go back to a Catholic church again until a couple of months ago and ever since then have just kept wanting to go back.

It is definitely a little uncomfortable for me because I feel I am very rational and have always enjoyed reading and listening to the New Atheists, so I don’t know where I will end up on this, but I figure it can’t hurt to follow what feels right at this moment to see where it goes. I have serious problems with some Biblical stories - particularly the idea that Abraham intending to kill his firstborn son at the command of God was some sort of noble act when it would land someone a one-way ticket to life imprisonment or an asylum today, as well as some of the genocidal episodes in the Old Testament. Not sure how to reconcile those with a loving God short of ignoring those stories.

 

[Blacksword]

Thank you all for your responses, particularly Jocko who seems to share the same experience/feelings as I do. We will see if RCIA resolves some of the questions I have. There are just a lot of doubts dealing with the specifics as well as the idea that if, say, I lived in a different part of the world, perhaps I would be feeling a sort of longing toward Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, etc instead of Catholicism.

I first took the plunge and went to my first Mass 3 years ago out of curiosity and had to sit next to someone and ask for explanations of what was going on because I was a mess trying to keep up with the standing and kneeling. Though I loved the church I went to that day and the community I felt there, I did not go back to a Catholic church again until a couple of months ago and ever since then have just kept wanting to go back.

It is definitely a little uncomfortable for me because I feel I am very rational and have always enjoyed reading and listening to the New Atheists, so I don’t know where I will end up on this, but I figure it can’t hurt to follow what feels right at this moment to see where it goes. I have serious problems with some Biblical stories - particularly the idea that Abraham intending to kill his firstborn son at the command of God was some sort of noble act when it would land someone a one-way ticket to life imprisonment or an asylum today, as well as some of the genocidal episodes in the Old Testament. Not sure how to reconcile those with a loving God short of ignoring those stories.

Bless you in your journey. Talk to your Director and priest about these things, they are troubling, but can be resolved and explained. One thing about the Abraham story is the way it prefigured the sacrifice of Christ. It tells us an important thing about God: He asks everything of us, for us to be willing to give all up for him, but He actually TAKES nothing. Abraham’s son was fine, instead it was a lamb that was sacrificed. And God then gave us what He does not demand of us to give Him: His son.

And it serves to illustrate very starkly how different God is from the other deities that the tribes and people around Abraham worshiped. Which also helps in part to explain the later stories of conquest and killing of other communities. Child sacrifice was incredibly common in that area of the world. Look up Moloch worship for instance. This story shows affirmatively that God is not at all like those other deities: God does not desire child sacrifice where Moloch and others do. This difference would have been clear to ancients reading this account.

 

[Miriam1947]

I hear you Mink.

I may be sliding out of atheism due to the draw of Catholicism. Interestingly, I think a lot of my atheism is relevant only to the ultra-conservative fundamentalism that surrounded my in my youth. I’ll be starting the inquiry classes in a week or so.

I have to say, though: I wouldn’t be able to do it without the writings of Richard Rohr and Thomas Merton and Hans Kung–and they don’t seem well received by a lot of the Catholics in these forums. It concerns me that I may find myself in a Church that welcomes me, but in which my fellows church members do not really like having me around. I worry that while everyone else is talking about abortion and gay marriage for the 1,000th time, I’ll be the one to say “What about the social teaching of the church–maybe we should talk about that once in a while?” only to draw the ire of everyone else. Likewise, I know who the person is who teaches the RCIA classes, and he is a hard-core Republican who has run for state senate. I worry that his politics are going to be guiding his religious teachings in the class.

So, I feel some ambivalence, but I’m drawn nonetheless.

Catholic social teaching is subsidiarity. Start local and work from there. Help your neighbor. Don’t expect a government entity to do that which you as a child of Christ should be doing.

 

[Miriam1947]

I will pray for you, may God bless you in your journey! I know how you feel about the lack of emphasis on social teachings and option for the poor. This is a problem with some Catholics and indeed in some parishes, but NOT in the Church herself! It can be hard at times, but we always should try to separate those who are not living up to the call of Christ and his Church from the Church itself. You are very welcome, and you are not alone in your feelings about this. ** Indeed, in my parish we have a perpetual food pantry and food drives for shelters, and tons of volunteer activities for helping the poor. ** Never forget that people like Rick Santorum do NOT speak for all Catholics, no matter how much they might like to think they do!

Yes, subsidiarity. We have those as well. We also have a very strong pro-life community in my parish. We have the maternity tree and we take tags from local pregnancy centers and give diapers and wipes and clothing and blankets that we buy.

This should not be a political issue.

 

[Jocko_VT]

Catholic social teaching is subsidiarity. Start local and work from there. Help your neighbor. Don’t expect a government entity to do that which you as a child of Christ should be doing.

Subsidiarity is certainly a very important part of Catholic social teaching, but there is so much more. Were we to draw *everything *back into the locale–i.e., all that is social, all that is economic, all that is political–“subsidiarity” would probably cover it (and this might be a very good idea!); but given that we live in a global economy, and the politics that affect us most are at the nation-state level, subsidiarity doesn’t address everything. Leo XIII’s Rerum Novarum, Paul VI’s Populorum Progressio, Jon Paul II’s Laborem Exercens, and the US Bishops’ Economic Justice for All, for example, express essential aspects of Catholic social teaching, as well. What concerns me is that, while I’m very well aware of the Catholic Church’s stance on abortion and gay marriage–because Catholics never stop talking about it–I had to just happen upon the above mentioned documents on my own, accidentally, because Catholics *never *talk about it (at least not in the public realm).

For me, this is a source of ambivalence toward the Church–or at least toward the churchgoers–that concerns me. Hopefully, I’ll sort this out in RCIA.

 

[AntalKalnoky]

I will pray for you, may God bless you in your journey! I know how you feel about the lack of emphasis on social teachings and option for the poor. This is a problem with some Catholics and indeed in some parishes, but NOT in the Church herself! It can be hard at times, but we always should try to separate those who are not living up to the call of Christ and his Church from the Church itself. You are very welcome, and you are not alone in your feelings about this. Indeed, in my parish we have a perpetual food pantry and food drives for shelters, and tons of volunteer activities for helping the poor. Never forget that people like Rick Santorum do NOT speak for all Catholics, no matter how much they might like to think they do!

Santorum is a Politiscian. :nope::crying::tsktsk: Very Many of His Ideas/Proposals, and of His GOP are Directly Opposed/Opposite of Catholic/Christ’s (Euphamistically misnomered) “Social” Concerns/Priorities