Like Joie points out, do people really think that women will be OK with a trans-man like Buck Angel using the women’s restroom. And he has female parts , BTW, and hasn’t gone through sex reassignment surgery.I don’t think that’s the point. Whether or not being transgender is delusional isn’t the point either. The point is that if one has male parts, it is common decency to use the male restroom. Same for females.
For someone to claim a right to use the opposite restroom is more than just indecent. It is immoral, inconsiderate, pathetic, and frankly hateful.
Jon
Atlanta (CNN)Under increasing pressure from major corporations that do business in Georgia, Gov. Nathan Deal announced Monday he will veto a bill that critics say would have curtailed the rights of Georgia’s LGBT community.
House Bill 757 would have given faith-based organizations in Georgia the option to deny services and jobs to gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people. Supporters said the measure was meant to protect religious freedom, while opponents have described it as “anti-LGBT” and “appalling.”
Speaking to reporters Monday morning, Deal, a Republican, said he didn’t think the bill was necessary.
cnn.com/2016/03/28/us/georgia-north-carolina-lgbt-bills/index.htmlDeal, who had already expressed discomfort with the measure, came under enormous pressure to veto the bill after the National Football League suggested it might pass over Atlanta for future Super Bowls, and leading Hollywood figures threatened to pull production from the state.
Even if they’ve been corrupted?I’m certain awarely of cases like this. The difference is that this woman who believes she is a cat is recognized by doctors and scientists to have a mental disorder. I continue to trust the medical community and scientific community most on the transgender issue.
A poorly thought through decision. Bathroom rights are a political issue? That clearly threatens reality to start with, plus it indicates a growing dictatorship that will continue to grow. The Governor is being less than sensible. It’s great his state welcomes everyone but an outside special interest group decides who gets to use which bathroom?It looks like the governor of Georgia is being more sensible:
cnn.com/2016/03/28/us/georgia-north-carolina-lgbt-bills/index.html
“Transgendered men do not become women, nor do transgendered women become men. All (including Bruce Jenner) become feminized men or masculinized women, counterfeits or impersonators of the sex with which they ‘identify.’”“The idea that one’s sex is fluid and a matter open to choice runs unquestioned through our culture and is reflected everywhere in the media, the theater, the classroom, and in many medical clinics. It has taken on cult-like features... It is doing much damage to families, adolescents, and children and should be confronted as an opinion without biological foundation wherever it emerges.”:dts:The GOP uses fear to sway a lot of voters.
I think a look at migrant views and that of various factions of the DNC base would say otherwise.The problem is the typical culture war issues have run out of steam; same sex marriage is a done deal,
Curtailing PP was the right thing to do. It’s too bad we couldn’t go farther, like overturning Roe V. Wade.states have pushed abortion restrictions past the line set by Planned Parenthood v. Casey and are stuck waiting for lawsuits to make their way through the courts.
Again, much of the DNC are against bathroom sharings of the opposite gender.But the increased visibility of trans issues brought by trans celebrities has resulted in these “bathroom bills”, and the GOP is hedging their bets that it will be an issue effective enough to get out the vote in an election where they will be slaughtered on downticket races if Trump is their nominee.
Mental disorders are by their nature not a purely scientific issue. There is a moral element to the issue. Mental disorders are a disorder in as much as the mental activity or resultant behavior is deemed bad. Given there is a moral element we should hardly trust the doctors and scientist who have proven themselves not to be much of an authority in moral issues.I think it’s more complicated than this. A not negligible number of human being are born with sexual physical characteristics of both sexes (intersexed). When speaking of human sexuality, the collective, current wisdom is that body and mind both matter. We obviously still have a lot to learn about human beings and human sexuality.
All I know is that the people who know the most about transgender (other than transgendered folks themselves) are the doctors and scientists who work with and study this community. I consider those people to be the experts and those people do not consider transgender to be a mental disorder.
Yes, it is sound. The issue is what is a person and what does a person think they are. A man is no more a woman then he is a chicken. It doesn’t matter how big the perceived gap is between two things. If you think you are A when in fact you are B you are deluded. It isn’t at all apparent to me that a man who thinks he is a woman is less wrong then a man who thinks himself a chicken.A male human and a female human are the same species; a male human and a chicken are not. I respect your point, but your analogy isn’t sound.
There’s no scientific reason for gender identity to be regarded as a disorder any more than being organized should be consider a disorder. Both cases have extremes at which point a disorder is present, gender dysphoria disorder in the first case and obsessive compulsive disorder in the second.That’s not clinical analysis or scientific. Lobbying is not science.
There is no scientific reason for it to be regarded as anything other than the delusionThere’s no scientific reason for gender identity to be regarded as a disorder any more than being organized should be consider a disorder. Both cases have extremes at which point a disorder is present, gender dysphoria disorder in the first case and obsessive compulsive disorder in the second.
Then the pot meets the kettle at long last.There is no scientific reason for it to be regarded as anything other than the delusion
And they removed homosexuality from the list of disorders by a vote.The APA changed Transgeder from a disorder to not a disorder due to lobbying from the LGBT community.
ncregister.com/daily-news/psychiatrys-new-normal-transgendered-persons
I have mental health issues also. Lobbying will not change them. In this case, it’s OK to be Transgender as long as the patient isn’t bothered by it. That’s not clinical analysis or scientific. Lobbying is not science.
Ed
Science is not the only proper instrument for determining disorders. So saying there is no scientific reason does not necessarily carry much weight. Science if it rejects teleology, as many scientists do, has no place for determining disorders. Disorders, as the word suggests, are a disruption of the order or purpose for something. Natural Law, rejected by many scientists, would give science a seat at the table. But even with that it is ultimately a philosophical issue as to whether something is disordered.There’s no scientific reason for gender identity to be regarded as a disorder any more than being organized should be consider a disorder. Both cases have extremes at which point a disorder is present, gender dysphoria disorder in the first case and obsessive compulsive disorder in the second.
What you refer to as natural law isn’t natural law at all. It is a hijacking of a scientific term to describe metaphysical notions.Its just that sort of perversion of science that allowed for demonic possession as a diagnosis for medical conditions.Science is not the only proper instrument for determining disorders. So saying there is no scientific reason does not necessarily carry much weight. Science if it rejects teleology, as many scientists do, has no place for determining disorders. Disorders, as the word suggests, are a disruption of the order or purpose for something. Natural Law, rejected by many scientists, would give science a seat at the table. But even with that it is ultimately a philosophical issue as to whether something is disordered.
That’s correct.And they removed homosexuality from the list of disorders by a vote.
Or validates bizarre delusions that one us really a different gender than they areWhat you refer to as natural law isn’t natural law at all. It is a hijacking of a scientific term to describe metaphysical notions.Its just that sort of perversion of science that allowed for demonic possession as a diagnosis for medical conditions.
Sort-of, but not an accurate representation of what transpired.That’s correct.
Ed
Here’s a story from 2012:And they removed homosexuality from the list of disorders by a vote.
This weekend, 20 people from around the country will meet in a nondescript hotel room in Arlington, Va., and take a vote. A passing stranger who stumbled on this group wouldn’t see much of anything, just a bunch of graying academic types sitting around a table.
But millions of people will be touched by that vote because the graying academic types are voting to approve the 5th edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual — the bible of psychiatry.
The DSM, published by the American Psychiatric Association, is an enormous tome that defines every mental disorder. And in defining every mental disorder, it helps determine many other things, such as how struggling children are treated in school.
If the disruptive behavior of a child is seen as a disorder — like attention deficit hyperactivity disorder or autism — schools will help with subsidized services. If not? Well, then the schools often see the child as just trouble, and the child will be penalized.
So it’s no surprise that there’s lots of controversy every time the DSM is revised, with people arguing that the new definitions are too narrow or too broad. And the DSM-5 is no exception — it’s considered the single most controversial DSM of them all.
So what are the likely changes? How have the many controversies been decided?
The APA refuses to say anything about what’s in and what’s out, and they’ve also told people associated with the DSM-5 that they shouldn’t speak specifically, so it’s very hard to know. But some of the changes that were published last year on the APA website (they’ve since been removed) are likely.
Asperger’s Syndrome may be eliminated: Asperger’s Syndrome is currently a popular diagnosis, but soon it may not be used by mental health professionals to identify people with mild autism. Instead, there will be a spectrum of autism, and people who would once have been diagnosed with Asperger’s will instead be diagnosed as mildly autistic.
npr.org/sections/health-shots/2012/11/30/166252201/weekend-vote-will-bring-controversial-changes-to-psychiatrists-bibleMany people with Asperger’s syndrome opposed this change. “People with Asperger’s preferred that identity, as opposed to being seen as part of autism spectrum. I think that’s been part of the complaint,” says Roger Peele, secretary of the APA.
foxnews.com/health/2013/05/21/dsm-5-is-here-what-controversial-new-changes-mean-for-mental-health-care.htmlThe most recent revision of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) has arrived, and the latest changes have caused divisions among those in the psychiatric community.
Not true. By removing certain disorders by nonscientific means, the APA no longer has any credibility aside from being a reason to go before a judge or the public and saying everything is OK.There’s no scientific reason for gender identity to be regarded as a disorder any more than being organized should be consider a disorder. Both cases have extremes at which point a disorder is present, gender dysphoria disorder in the first case and obsessive compulsive disorder in the second.
What is the scientific reason for classifying gender identity as a disorder? And remember, no metaphysical mumbo jumbo.Not true. By removing certain disorders by nonscientific means, the APA no longer has any credibility aside from being a reason to go before a judge or the public and saying everything is OK.
Changes to the DSM happen every time it’s revised and those changes are not always based just on science. There is always intense lobbying from patients, insurance companies, and psychiatrists themselves.Not true. By removing certain disorders by nonscientific means, the APA no longer has any credibility aside from being a reason to go before a judge or the public and saying everything is OK.