North Korea seeks help after massive flooding

[Lance]

Should we help them? I have mixed feelings but I am begining to think we should with hold any aid until there is a major regime change in North Korea. Any assistance we give them will just allow them to spend more on their military while we support their civilians.

SEOUL (Reuters) - North Korea is seeking foreign help after massive flooding left hundreds dead or missing and swept away many buildings, a U.N. aid agency spokesman said on Tuesday.

North Korea, which has struggled with chronic food shortages for years, said in a report early on Tuesday that floodwaters caused “tens of thousands of hectares of farmland (to be) inundated, buried under silt and washed away.”

Paul Risley, Asia spokesman with the U.N. World Food Programme (WFP), said: "If the figures are borne out by our own assessment, then we are very concerned that this is a significant emergency crisis.

“It is still very early in this process but we have received a preliminary request from North Korean authorities, asking for our assistance,” Risley said by telephone from Bangkok.

He said a U.N. agency assessment team left Pyongyang on Tuesday, headed for flood-hit areas.

Later on Tuesday, North Korea’s official KCNA news agency said coal mining pits, power lines and substations had also been inundated or damaged.

U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Christopher Hill said he would ask Washington to look at the situation to see what help could be offered.

“We’ve just been getting the press reports today on that flood, and in fact I asked if we could get some more information on it to see precisely what the situation is and to see what the appropriateness of assistance might be,” he said in Beijing.

news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070814/wl_nm/korea_north_floods_dc_7;_ylt=Aiq6XFkpPjlTMbIYNkOJ9G9lM3wV

 

[lizaanne]

Of course we should. They are still human beings.

Now - I’m not in favor of the United States being the end all be all welfare bucket for the world, but if innocent people are dying, and we are in a position to help, then we help. As a country founded on Christian principles it is what we are called to do.

~Liza

 

[Lance]

Of course we should. They are still human beings.

Now - I’m not in favor of the United States being the end all be all welfare bucket for the world, but if innocent people are dying, and we are in a position to help, then we help. As a country founded on Christian principles it is what we are called to do.

~Liza

But shouldn’t we attach some strings to the aid? After all they continue to develop nuclear technology and sell it to our enemies in the middle east, they threaten our allies South Korea and Japan, they have captured our sailors on the high seas and held them, they support terrorist states. It just seems reasonable to expect something from them in return for any assistance. We did not drop bags of food on Japan in 1945 during WW II, why should we feed our enemy? I do feel sorry for the people but I also fear for my grandkids in the world North Korea is trying to build.

 

[Orogeny]

But shouldn’t we attach some strings to the aid?

No. Christ wouldn’t.

Peace

Tim

 

[geezerbob]

No. Christ wouldn’t.

Peace

Tim

I bet He would, too, seeing that previous humanitarian aid was grabbed to feed the army, leavint the peasants to starve despite the rest of the world’s good intentions. He would see to it that it went to those who needed it the most.

 

[dympnha]

It would be a waste of time and money. Whatever food we give would go to the army and their families.

 

[Lance]

No. Christ wouldn’t.

Peace

Tim

I think he would. I don’t believe he would have given to help feed the poor in Rome knowing that the aid would be used to help the army who was oppressing the Jews. I am not saying don’t help N.K., just that we should attach some very strong strings to the aid, like say Kim Jong-il must step down.

 

[lizaanne]

…just that we should attach some very strong strings to the aid, like say Kim Jong-il must step down.

Oh right - like that’s going to happen just because the US offered some aid! They would rather starve than see him step down. Especially if it were because the US said he should. Not going to happen.

No - I don’t like conditions on feeding a hungry person. The only thing I would want ensured is that the aid would go where it is intended and not to the army. Not an easy task by any means.

~Liza

 

[brown_bear]

Should we help them?

Yes, we should, but in order to avoid money and furniture end up wasted (or indirectly in Kim’s pocket!), Italian Catholics - as I am - usually prefer give money only to Catholic agencies.
It’s not only to avoid risks of stealing, but mainly to avoid to pay 500 $ what we can have perfectly done with 50 $.
Maybe you have better public agencies, in this case I apologize.
All the best!
Aurelio

 

[Lance]

Yes, we should, but in order to avoid money and furniture end up wasted (or indirectly in Kim’s pocket!), Italian Catholics - as I am - usually prefer give money only to Catholic agencies.
It’s not only to avoid risks of stealing, but mainly to avoid to pay 500 $ what we can have perfectly done with 50 $.
Maybe you have better public agencies, in this case I apologize.
All the best!
Aurelio

Chio bruno orso, (if my Italian is not to rusty)
I agree with giving to Catholic Charaties, the problem we have is if our government decides to help we get no say in who they give the money/food too. You are right that the US bureaucrats will take a cut to pay themselves and then give the money to the UN where more bureaucrats will take a cut and if 70% of the cost goest to NK we will be lucky. Then the NK government will take 90% of the 70% so the poor people will only get about 7% of what we gave them.

 

[Lance]

Oh right - like that’s going to happen just because the US offered some aid! They would rather starve than see him step down. Especially if it were because the US said he should. Not going to happen.

No - I don’t like conditions on feeding a hungry person. The only thing I would want ensured is that the aid would go where it is intended and not to the army. Not an easy task by any means.

~Liza

Then let them starve. I don’t like feeding my sworn enemy.

 

[rpp]

It would be a waste of time and money. Whatever food we give would go to the army and their families.

Then let them starve. I don’t like feeding my sworn enemy.

While I completely understand your position, and have sympathy with it, I do think that we should help them. But you mention some very real problems. Corruption.

But I think Brown Bear has a good idea. Get the governments out of it.

Yes, we should, but in order to avoid money and furniture end up wasted (or indirectly in Kim’s pocket!), Italian Catholics - as I am - usually prefer give money only to Catholic agencies.
It’s not only to avoid risks of stealing, but mainly to avoid to pay 500 $ what we can have perfectly done with 50 $.
Maybe you have better public agencies, in this case I apologize.
All the best!
Aurelio

 

[lubczyk]

Yes, we should, but in order to avoid money and furniture end up wasted (or indirectly in Kim’s pocket!), Italian Catholics - as I am - usually prefer give money only to Catholic agencies.
It’s not only to avoid risks of stealing, but mainly to avoid to pay 500 $ what we can have perfectly done with 50 $.
Maybe you have better public agencies, in this case I apologize.
All the best!
Aurelio

Yes, just what Kim Jong-il needs:

Some Catholic hostages as bargaining chips.

What would prevent the North Korean army from just waltzing in and taking the food by force from these catholic charities.

That has happened several times with the Red Cross in Afghanistan where Taliban fighters confiscated Red Cross food stations:

hrw.org/english/docs/2001/10/18/afghan2740.htm

 

[gilliam]

The South Korean government has said it was ready to aid its neighbour, but has yet to receive a request. The United States was also considering aid.

africa.reuters.com/world/news/usnSEO146090.html

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Certainly they should be helped - for one thing, they are our fellow-men; for another, it makes no sense to treat an entire country as guilty of the crimes committed against them by those who rule them. How can a starving peasant be blamed for what is done against him by his rulers in Pyongyang ? He has no say in the matter.​

The same difficulty arises with Zimbabwe - those who are victimised by Mugabe can hardly be blamed for it. The country is a wreck, thanks to him - not them.

 

[Al_Masetti]

The civilian population is starved by the government. There are some humongous estimates of the number of North Korean people who die from starvation. On a routine basis.

The food that would be / would have been produced in the flooded land …would be for the North Korean military.

So … perhaps we could have the U.S. Marines deliver food and set up tent kitchens to feed the civilian population. Only malnourished people need apply.

Let the North Korean military people eat from the food stocks that they have already stockpiled.

The key thing is not to allow the aid to be siphoned away by the ruling elites of North Korea.

Perhaps we could focus our efforts in the area around Hungnam.

 

[Lance]

Certainly they should be helped - for one thing, they are our fellow-men; for another, it makes no sense to treat an entire country as guilty of the crimes committed against them by those who rule them. How can a starving peasant be blamed for what is done against him by his rulers in Pyongyang ? He has no say in the matter.​

The same difficulty arises with Zimbabwe - those who are victimised by Mugabe can hardly be blamed for it. The country is a wreck, thanks to him - not them.

Funny how those peasants can rise up and overthrow the government of non-Communist governments but can never find the means to throw of the yoke of Communisim.

 

[brown_bear]

Thanks to Lance (ciao!!), rpp and you all for your warm Christian welcome! To lubczyk: you might be right, here we are in order to refine the ideas. However I think that solutions to moderate the risk you highlight are possible and it’s not correct surrender before “fighting”.
Aurelio

 

[lubczyk]

Thanks to Lance (ciao!!), rpp and you all for your warm Christian welcome! To lubczyk: you might be right, here we are in order to refine the ideas. However I think that solutions to moderate the risk you highlight are possible and it’s not correct surrender before “fighting”.
Aurelio

I’m not asking “if” we should help them. We most certainly should and are obligated to. I’m asking the harder question of “how” we should and can help them. Simple answers to complex problems is the bread and butter of fools who bear no responsibility.

Look, I love the Pope and all, but sometimes when he tells us to feed our fellow man and stop the fighting; I’d like to hear a comprehensive proposed solution from him and his aids on how to do so. The Church has 1.2 Billion Members worldwide. You think it could put together comprehensive, doable solutions to many of today’s problems and implement them.

It’s kind of like Bono, he wants others to help the third world but he won’t do it himself.

When the Pope suggests a solution that other governments and politicians have the task of implementing, he gets all the credit:
“The Pope brought down Communism.” No, he didn’t, others did with his slight help. He couldn’t possibly have done it alone.

What if the Pope suggests a solution that doesn’t work and more people die or starve as a result. People will say “Oh, he’s just the Pope, you can’t expect him to do all that, he’s not a politician.”

The Pope can throw out all the straw man and idealistic visions he wants, but he doesn’t bear any responsibility, or the experience, or have the authority to prove their validity.

I love ideals, but I would like the Church throw out once in a while practical solutions to real problems.

In Christ,

Lubczyk

 

[brown_bear]

Simple answers to complex problems is the bread and butter of fools who bear no responsibility.

This is true and nicely expressed. Gladly I agree with you!

Look, I love the Pope and all, but sometimes when he tells us to feed our fellow man and stop the fighting; I’d like to hear a comprehensive proposed solution from him and his aids on how to do so. The Church has 1.2 Billion Members worldwide. You think it could put together comprehensive, doable solutions to many of today’s problems and implement them.

It’s kind of like Bono, he wants others to help the third world but he won’t do it himself.

When the Pope suggests a solution that other governments and politicians have the task of implementing, he gets all the credit:
“The Pope brought down Communism.” No, he didn’t, others did with his slight help. He couldn’t possibly have done it alone.

What if the Pope suggests a solution that doesn’t work and more people die or starve as a result. People will say “Oh, he’s just the Pope, you can’t expect him to do all that, he’s not a politician.”

The Pope can throw out all the straw man and idealistic visions he wants, but he doesn’t bear any responsibility, or the experience, or have the authority to prove their validity.

I love ideals, but I would like the Church throw out once in a while practical solutions to real problems.

In Christ,

Lubczyk

I think we must stop to await practical solutions by the Pope and the Bishops. They give us all what we need, deep reasons and… rather practical suggestions. But they can’t, better: mustn’t do more.
This is a job of the Church in the most extensive sense: all of us, especially the laity.
You might say: “Medice, cura te ipsum”, seen that I am a son of Italy, that is maybe the most clerical Christianity in the world. But a cancer patient who is a doctor doesn’t stop to cure his patients
So I think laymen and laywomen must take on their job and find out practical solutions taking their responsibilities.
The problem is not if the Pope picks a wrong practical solution, but that if he supports a determined solution people may think that is the Catholic, irrefutable solution. Far from it, we are free - and responsible - in all that is not doctrine of the Church.
Anyway, if you read the three social Encyclicals of John Paul II, you’ll find out a bunch of suggestions, I would say, very very practical.
I apologize for the tirade but I am sensitive on the topic. In the case I didn’t fully grasp your argument, double apology.
All the best!
Aurelio