Not a single genuine leather RSVCE?

[dkushner]

Just an update. The Baronius Press Bibles are NO LONGER MADE OF GENUINE LEATHER. I just purchased a supposedly ‘leather bound’ version:
amazon.com/gp/product/0954563115

…and upon receiving it I was shocked by the cheap feel and appearance of the ‘leather’ binding. I contacted Baronius Press directly and they confirmed that their Bibles are no longer made of genuine leather, but cheaper bonded leather. I do not know when this transition to cheaper bonded leather happened, but I believe it was a recent change. Strangely the price is still the same as the older genuine leather versions.

Interestingly enough Baronius used to extol the virtues of their ‘real Moroccan Leather Bibles’. Here’s a snipped from a site that has not updated their description yet:

"No Bible should ever be covered in cheap materials. The Holy Word of God should only be covered in elegant, long-lasting materials such as leather.

When choosing the covering material for our Bible, we were faced with two options: either to use bonded leather which is cheap (and would enable us to advertise our edition as “leather bound”), or real leather at many times the cost. Needless to say, for such an edition, there was no option but to use real Moroccan leather.

Real Moroccan leather is excellent, strong and hard-wearing. For hundreds of years Moroccan leather has been dyed on the grain side and boarded by hand or machine to bring up the grain in a bird’s-eye effect. It probably originated with the Arabs in North Africa as an alum-tanned product, typically dyed red. Hard, but pliable, it is valued especially for high quality bookbinding where durability and beauty are prized.

Bonded leather is made from waste leather cuts that are grated and bonded together with latex, then embossed to provide a “genuine leather” look. A bonded leather Bible generally lasts about 10 years under “normal” conditions. We often hear of cheap Bibles that have a problem with the leather “chipping” (usually around the edges). Unfortunately, this is a rather typical occurrence for bonded leather Bibles as the latex disintegrates, which is why the Baronius edition uses only the finest Moroccan real leather. "

Oh, well…back to Amazon it goes. I will try to find a good old second-hand Douay Rheims from the 50’s.

David

I’d like to update my previous post. While the Baronius Press Douay-Rheims is now bound in bonded leather, I’ve still grown to love it and decided to not return it. The bonded leather seems to be high-quality, and the text block is very well bound. The overall quality is excellent.

While I’d still love to see a genuine leather version by Baronius, I wholeheartedly recommend the current Douay-Rheims published by Baronius Press.

David

 

[baddog]

Eventually, due to wear. However, it takes much, much longer. A small amount of leather care product may also help nourish genuine leather, extending its life. Genuine leather can easily last a lifetime.

The best way to nourish the leather is to use the Bible daily. The oil from on’s hands will nourish the leather.

 

[baddog]

Ignatius Press has a nice leather RSVCE Bible. (I have one.)

ignatius.com/ViewProduct.aspx?SID=1&Product_ID=2766&SKU=IBL2-P&Category_ID=6

 

[dkushner]

Ignatius Press has a nice leather RSVCE Bible. (I have one.)

ignatius.com/ViewProduct.aspx?SID=1&Product_ID=2766&SKU=IBL2-P&Category_ID=6

baddog

I just received a copy of the Ignatius Bible you reference. Just to clarify, it is bonded leather, not genuine leather. According to Ignatius they do not make a genuine leather RSV-SCE Bible.

The descriptions that publishers describing leather are confusing, and often misleading in my opinion. Apparently they can say ‘leather’ whether or not it is actually a piece of ‘real’ leather, or bonded leather (bonded leather is to leather as plywood is to wood). If they say ‘genuine leather’ then it is ‘real’ leather and oils and conditioning will possibly improve the leather over time.

Bonded leather, on the other hand, does not (to the best of my knowledge) benefit from any type of hand oils or leather conditioners, much the way that particle board or plywood does not benefit from natural oils. If anything, the oils will cause the binders in the bonded leather to break down over time.

Here’s a quick description of bonded leather from a bookbinding company: longs-roullet.com/bondedleather.htm

The Ignatius is a very nice translation. I ended up returning mine (both bonded leather and hard cover) since the text block was very poorly constructed. The page signatures were loose, and some were starting to fall out toward the back of the hard-bound copy. The head and tail bands were also coming unglued out of the box. Hopefully you will have better luck with your copy than I did with mine.

David

 

[baddog]

baddog

I just received a copy of the Ignatius Bible you reference. Just to clarify, it is bonded leather, not genuine leather. According to Ignatius they do not make a genuine leather RSV-SCE Bible.

The descriptions that publishers describing leather are confusing, and often misleading in my opinion. Apparently they can say ‘leather’ whether or not it is actually a piece of ‘real’ leather, or bonded leather (bonded leather is to leather as plywood is to wood). If they say ‘genuine leather’ then it is ‘real’ leather and oils and conditioning will possibly improve the leather over time.

Bonded leather, on the other hand, does not (to the best of my knowledge) benefit from any type of hand oils or leather conditioners, much the way that particle board or plywood does not benefit from natural oils. If anything, the oils will cause the binders in the bonded leather to break down over time.

Here’s a quick description of bonded leather from a bookbinding company: longs-roullet.com/bondedleather.htm

The Ignatius is a very nice translation. I ended up returning mine (both bonded leather and hard cover) since the text block was very poorly constructed. The page signatures were loose, and some were starting to fall out toward the back of the hard-bound copy. The head and tail bands were also coming unglued out of the box. Hopefully you will have better luck with your copy than I did with mine.

David

Thanks. Learned something. Took a look at the RSVCE Readers Edition. Looks like the best quality Catholic Bible out there. May get one.
We need to catch up with the Protestants on this one. Scott Hahn is putting together a Catholic Study Bible, RSVCE. Hope the quality of the finished product is up to par!

 

[dkushner]

Thanks. Learned something. Took a look at the RSVCE Readers Edition. Looks like the best quality Catholic Bible out there. May get one.
We need to catch up with the Protestants on this one. Scott Hahn is putting together a Catholic Study Bible, RSVCE. Hope the quality of the finished product is up to par!

baddog

I agree that we have an abysmal selection of high quality, genuine leather, Catholic Bibles compared to the selection of ultra high quality Protestant Bibles - and I’m trying to do something about it.

Here’s a thread I started on this site to begin addressing this very issue - you may want to read the thread, vote on your choice of which translation that you’d actually buy in premium leather (if it was available), and chime in with your comments:

Would you buy a premium leather Catholic Bible?

If you really want to learn about real premium leather bound Bibles (Protestant translations only though) check this site out. These are the types of Bibles I’d like to see, and would pay for, in Catholic translations:

Bible Design and Binding

Many people are of the opinion that RL Allan makes the best quality genuine leather Protestant Bibles available, but no Catholic translations right now. I recommend putting a suggestion in their ‘Contact Us’ page asking them to consider Catholic translations if you’d be interested:

RL Allan’s Bibles Direct

Also, FWIW, both my brother and I both own the Oxford University Press RSV-CE in genuine leather and the text block of both of our Bibles is coming apart in the exact same spot. Quality just seems to be a forgotten art these days

The Baronius Press Douay-Rheims is very good quality as far as the text block goes, but it’s no longer available in genuine leather. The bonded leather that it’s bound in is quite stiff, but seems to be well made - time will tell, but I doubt it will hold up like real top-grain genuine leather would.

David

 

[mccorm45]

Thanks. Learned something. Took a look at the RSVCE Readers Edition. Looks like the best quality Catholic Bible out there. May get one.
We need to catch up with the Protestants on this one. Scott Hahn is putting together a Catholic Study Bible, RSVCE. Hope the quality of the finished product is up to par!

Unfortunately the Catholic Study Bible you speak of will be published by Ignatius Press, which doesn’t currently have any genuine leather versions. But perhaps that will change when this project is complete…

 

[baddog]

baddog

I agree that we have an abysmal selection of high quality, genuine leather, Catholic Bibles compared to the selection of ultra high quality Protestant Bibles - and I’m trying to do something about it.

Here’s a thread I started on this site to begin addressing this very issue - you may want to read the thread, vote on your choice of which translation that you’d actually buy in premium leather (if it was available), and chime in with your comments:

Would you buy a premium leather Catholic Bible?

If you really want to learn about real premium leather bound Bibles (Protestant translations only though) check this site out. These are the types of Bibles I’d like to see, and would pay for, in Catholic translations:

Bible Design and Binding

Many people are of the opinion that RL Allan makes the best quality genuine leather Protestant Bibles available, but no Catholic translations right now. I recommend putting a suggestion in their ‘Contact Us’ page asking them to consider Catholic translations if you’d be interested:

RL Allan’s Bibles Direct

Also, FWIW, both my brother and I both own the Oxford University Press RSV-CE in genuine leather and the text block of both of our Bibles is coming apart in the exact same spot. Quality just seems to be a forgotten art these days

The Baronius Press Douay-Rheims is very good quality as far as the text block goes, but it’s no longer available in genuine leather. The bonded leather that it’s bound in is quite stiff, but seems to be well made - time will tell, but I doubt it will hold up like real top-grain genuine leather would.

David

Now you’ve lost me. What exactly is a “text block”?

 

[dkushner]

Now you’ve lost me. What exactly is a “text block”?

baddog

From somewhere I found with Google:

“The body of a book, consisting of the leaves, or sections, making up the unit to be bound, rebound, or restored. It excludes all papers added by the bookbinder, including board papers, endpapers, doublures, etc.”

Here’s a good resource: Anatomy of a Book

Basically it’s the paper part of the book, minus the covers.

David

 

[baddog]

baddog

From somewhere I found with Google:

“The body of a book, consisting of the leaves, or sections, making up the unit to be bound, rebound, or restored. It excludes all papers added by the bookbinder, including board papers, endpapers, doublures, etc.”

Here’s a good resource: Anatomy of a Book

Basically it’s the paper part of the book, minus the covers.

David

Thanks. Learned quite a bit about books today.

 

[Irishcop]

If you want to see a good benchmark in fine bindings for Bibles (but not Catholic) see the ESV Bibles that Crossway has put out in both study version and large print, both with calfskin covers and liners and smythe sewn with high quality gold edging. Cost $175-200 dollars. Also Allan Bibles of Glasgow (they put out an NRSV). Anyway, at this time the only way to get this kind of quality in a Catholic Bible is probablly to find the best printing of it you can and have it rebound. The ESV Bible is basically a buffed up RSV (with later scholarship and modernized word for word translation in RSV style) but does not have the extra Catholic books (except in the new Oxford ESV edition). Maybe someday Catholic book publishers will commit to this kind of quality. I know this sounds materialistic and away from the real reason we should buy or read a Bible, but it goes along with high quality church fixtures, wedding bands and other items of this kind that indicate respect and reverence. Ever see a priest use a plastic cup for a chalice? Would you want a wedding band made of plastic? How about if the priest read from a cheap paperback lectionary at Mass? When you hold a fine binding Bible such as those I mentioned above, you can’t help but feel you have something very special in you hand aside from the fact that you can treasure it for your whole life and pass it on. Thanks.

 

[dkushner]

If you want to see a good benchmark in fine bindings for Bibles (but not Catholic) see the ESV Bibles that Crossway has put out in both study version and large print, both with calfskin covers and liners and smythe sewn with high quality gold edging. Cost $175-200 dollars. Also Allan Bibles of Glasgow (they put out an NRSV). Anyway, at this time the only way to get this kind of quality in a Catholic Bible is probablly to find the best printing of it you can and have it rebound. The ESV Bible is basically a buffed up RSV (with later scholarship and modernized word for word translation in RSV style) but does not have the extra Catholic books (except in the new Oxford ESV edition). Maybe someday Catholic book publishers will commit to this kind of quality. I know this sounds materialistic and away from the real reason we should buy or read a Bible, but it goes along with high quality church fixtures, wedding bands and other items of this kind that indicate respect and reverence. Ever see a priest use a plastic cup for a chalice? Would you want a wedding band made of plastic? How about if the priest read from a cheap paperback lectionary at Mass? When you hold a fine binding Bible such as those I mentioned above, you can’t help but feel you have something very special in you hand aside from the fact that you can treasure it for your whole life and pass it on. Thanks.

Irishcop

I wonder if you’ve seen my thread about my quest to convince an ultra high-quality publisher (like Allan) to publish some Catholic Bibles: Would you buy a premium leather Catholic Bible?

There’s a poll on the thread asking which translation you’d be interested in purchasing if it was available at a premium price point.

I agree with you, I don’t find a high-end Bible materialistic at all. I’d be happy with superior paper, binding, real highland goatskin leather covers, etc - not looking for a gold jewel encrusted Bible. I’ve experienced the poor quality of mass publishers (supposedly high-quality bindings) and have seen first-hand how they start to fall apart after minimal usage. I want a Bible that I can pass down to the next generation(s).

I’d love your (name removed by moderator)ut on the thread mentioned above.

Regards
David

 

[Salvatore123]

This is THE BEST bible I have EVER seen, bar none:

The Apostolic Bible: apostolicbible.com/bookstore.htm

I purchased the premier cowhide edition and the leather feels like soft velour. When opened, it stays flat, and most important to me, it is a word-for-word translation of the Septuagint OT based on the best codex of that version ever found.

Unfortunately, it does not have the deuteros, but it is fascinating to read exactly what people were talking like more than 2000 years ago.

 

[MarineGuy]

Uh, no one here must be familiar with St. Benedict Press (they’re rather new and bought out TAN actually) but they publish genuine leather Douay-Rheims, Catholic RSV’s, and New American Bibles. I have a genuine leather DR and its quite nice.
saintbenedictpress.com/

 

[MarineGuy]

This is THE BEST bible I have EVER seen, bar none:

The Apostolic Bible: apostolicbible.com/bookstore.htm

I purchased the premier cowhide edition and the leather feels like soft velour. When opened, it stays flat, and most important to me, it is a word-for-word translation of the Septuagint OT based on the best codex of that version ever found.

Unfortunately, it does not have the deuteros, but it is fascinating to read exactly what people were talking like more than 2000 years ago.

Umm, why wouldn’t it have the deterocanonicals if it has the Septuagint!? All of those books were part of the Septuagint (that’s where we get them) and were treated just like the rest of Scripture by the Apostles and early Christians and Hellenic Jews for that matter. This looks like a Protestant gimmick. Better to stay away; if you’re going to read an ancient version of the Bible, learn Latin and read the Vulgate, it’s the most accurate, the official Bible of the Church and is free of doctrinal and moral errors.