Not correcting Fertility Issues a Sin?

[wabrams]

But if a couple uses NFP because “hey, 3 kids is enough an we don’t want anymore no matter what,” that’s a sin?

 

[Timidity]

wabrams:

But if a couple uses NFP because “hey, 3 kids is enough an we don’t want anymore no matter what,” that’s a sin?

Seriously… read Humanae Vitae. It’s only 31 paragraphs.

There’s no need to rely on the opinion some stranger on the 'Net. For all you know I’m pushing some radical agenda. Read the document and pray on it.

 

[miguel]

wabrams:

But if a couple uses NFP because “hey, 3 kids is enough an we don’t want anymore no matter what,” that’s a sin?

If you, your wife, and your 3 kids are living in your car, I don’t think it would be a sin in that case.

 

[KCT]

Timidity:

As kmktexas said, there really isn’t a laundry list of reasons, nor should there be. Nor do I believe that anyone needs to justify their decision to anyone other than their confessor/advisor and God.

Amen. And this is why the term ‘contraceptive mentality’ bothers me. We’re presuming to know why someone is not having another child and attaching a sin to what we perceive as their motives. —KCT

 

[Timidity]

KCT:

And this is why the term ‘contraceptive mentality’ bothers me. We’re presuming to know why someone is not having another child and attaching a sin to what we perceive as their motives.

Ah, but now you’re attaching your perceptions to my motives.

That’s not my motive here. I’m not here to condemn anyone–heck with my history I’m hardly in the position to. My motive in this discussion is preventative in nature. I want people to know the truth so they can act accordingly. Moreso, I want them to read it for themselves rather than to take my word for it.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

The way I see it, morality would not require one to undergo a procedure to fix natural infertility. But, just as the discussion regarding NFP, I think this is a case requiring discernment of whether one is holding to the letter of the law to avoid the spirit of the law. No one but God can judge intentions, and you didn’t list the specific circumstances that make you want to limit your family to three children, but, in general, does passing up a simple procedure because one wants security of no more children really sound like an attitude of openness to life? That’s the attitude that is supposed to be driving our obedience to the Church’s sexual morality, so that’s where I’d invest some self-reflection.

 

[1ke]

wabrams:

But if a couple uses NFP because “hey, 3 kids is enough an we don’t want anymore no matter what,” that’s a sin?

I may be. It may not be. As I said, **serious reasons ** to avoid are required. It is specific to each couple. Therefore, I cannot provide a universal answer to this question. So, in this example it depends on why a couple is stating 3 is enough.

 

[1ke]

KCT:

Amen. And this is why the term ‘contraceptive mentality’ bothers me. We’re presuming to know why someone is not having another child and attaching a sin to what we perceive as their motives. —KCT

It is what it is. NFP can in fact be used with a contraceptive intent. No one here as said that any specific person is doing so. Please note that in all my posts I have said MAY or MIGHT and that each situation is specific to the couple. No one can judge the motives of the couple. That is true. However, what can be stated is that, objectively, NFP can be used for the wrong reasons and that if it is, then a sin is committed. That much is stated in the Catechism itself.

 

[KCT]

1ke:

That is true. However, what can be stated is that, objectively, NFP can be used for the wrong reasons and that if it is, then a sin is committed. That much is stated in the Catechism itself.

But what is the sin? The act of using NFP or the wrong attitude? —KCT

 

[wabrams]

1ke:

So, in this example it depends on why a couple is stating 3 is enough.

Same reason someone on ABC would in my scenario: have no desire to have more children because they simply don’t want anymore. Not medical or financial reasons, just personal.

 

[AirForceMama]

I have three little kids, and my husband is in the military. Unlike civilians, we cannot just get a “better job” to better provide for our family. The military pays what they pay, and they don’t care how many kids we have. I’m not saying I don’t desire more kids, I would love to have a whole gang of them, but we made the sacrifice of our finances to serve the country. A year ago we were living pretty poshly and could have easily taken care of many more children. But since joining up, we’ve been hit hard, and had to make the neccessary sacrifices.

I don’t like to think of myself as “Seriously sinning” because I wish to keep my children to 3.

 

[miguel]

Timidity:

Mercygate gave one quote from Humanae Vitae. The other wording from the same document is “…well-grounded reasons for spacing births, arising from the physical or psychological condition of husband or wife, or from external circumstances…”

As kmktexas said, there really isn’t a laundry list of reasons, nor should there be. Nor do I believe that anyone needs to justify their decision to anyone other than their confessor/advisor and God.

I highly recommend reading Humanae Vitae. It’s not that long (31 paragraphs), and I linked to it above.

The Church permits married couples to decide for themselves what constitutes well-grounded reasons for spacing births (i.e., physical, psychological, external). My and wife and I both love kids. But if she tells me she can’t deal with any more that’s good enough for me. And I feel comfortable facing my judge on that. Anyone who thinks using NFP is ever contraceptive is just plain wrong. How can a method that doesn’t use contraceptives be contraceptive? That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.

 

[KCT]

miguel:

The Church permits married couples to decide for themselves what constitutes well-grounded reasons for spacing births (i.e., physical, psychological, external). My and wife and I both love kids. But if she tells me she can’t deal with any more that’s good enough for me. And I feel comfortable facing my judge on that. Anyone who thinks using NFP is ever contraceptive is just plain wrong. How can a method that doesn’t use contraceptives be contraceptive? That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.

I’m with you. Attitudes and actions are two different things. —KCT

 

[Evan]

miguel:

The Church permits married couples to decide for themselves what constitutes well-grounded reasons for spacing births (i.e., physical, psychological, external). My and wife and I both love kids. But if she tells me she can’t deal with any more that’s good enough for me. And I feel comfortable facing my judge on that. Anyone who thinks using NFP is ever contraceptive is just plain wrong. How can a method that doesn’t use contraceptives be contraceptive? That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.

NFP uses a contraceptive: Time. But all things can be used either for sin or for virtue. Other contraceptives include Permenant Abstinance (Josephite marriage?), Death, Condoms, Drugs, Medical procedures.

Contraception mean to avoid conception.

Sin is in both why and the way.

 

[miguel]

Evan:

NFP uses a contraceptive: Time. But all things can be used either for sin or for virtue. Other contraceptives include Permenant Abstinance (Josephite marriage?), Death, Condoms, Drugs, Medical procedures.

Contraception mean to avoid conception.

Sin is in both why and the way.

The Church teaches it is not a sin to time sexual relations during the natural periods of infertility. If you do that, you are not contracepting.

 

[miguel]

goravens:

If I were to use nfp to postpone a pregnancy simply because I wanted to focus our family finances on decorating our house and outfitting it with nice furniture, that would be an example of a contraceptive mentality. That’s postponing children for something material and selfish - a pretty clear example…

The Church doesn’t define serious reasons to space births other than to say they could be physical, psychological, or external. These are fairly broad. And I think the Church gives people wide latitude here to decide for themselves what reasons are serious. A married couple has many things to balance: children, work, health, finances, education. The Church is not micromanaging any of this. You may think wanting nice furniture is frivolous. Other people may consider it serious. They may want a nice home for hospitality reasons. They may want visitors to feel welcome or comfortable. I don’t consider that selfish. A contraceptive mentality is an anti-life mentality. A better example of that would be if a couple, using contraception, gets pregnant and decides to abort.

 

[1ke]

KCT:

But what is the sin? The act of using NFP or the wrong attitude? —KCT

Using NFP with a contraceptive intent. It is the use of a good means for a bad end.

 

[1ke]

wabrams:

Same reason someone on ABC would in my scenario: have no desire to have more children because they simply don’t want anymore. Not medical or financial reasons, just personal.

That cannot be answered. It is dependent upon the individual situation.

 

[1ke]

AirForceMama:

I have three little kids, and my husband is in the military. Unlike civilians, we cannot just get a “better job” to better provide for our family. The military pays what they pay, and they don’t care how many kids we have. I’m not saying I don’t desire more kids, I would love to have a whole gang of them, but we made the sacrifice of our finances to serve the country. A year ago we were living pretty poshly and could have easily taken care of many more children. But since joining up, we’ve been hit hard, and had to make the neccessary sacrifices.

I don’t like to think of myself as “Seriously sinning” because I wish to keep my children to 3.

No one has said that you are.

 

[1ke]

miguel:

The Church permits married couples to decide for themselves what constitutes well-grounded reasons for spacing births (i.e., physical, psychological, external). My and wife and I both love kids. But if she tells me she can’t deal with any more that’s good enough for me. And I feel comfortable facing my judge on that. Anyone who thinks using NFP is ever contraceptive is just plain wrong. How can a method that doesn’t use contraceptives be contraceptive? That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.

**No one has said NFP is contraceptive. It is not. ** But, it can be use in with contraceptive mentality. I refer you to the Catechism which states:

*A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation. For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. *It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood. ** Moreover, they should conform their behavior to the objective criteria of morality

So, therefore to use NFP for what the Catechism calls “motivated by selfishness” is to use NFP with a contraceptive intent. This passage also makes it clear that no, the Church does not allow Catholics to “decide for themselves”, they must decide AFTER properly forming their conscience in conformity to the “objective criteria of morality”.