Not enough non catholic here

[JRKH]

I would love to see Catholics be much, much more active in evangelizing, teaching, and discipling the many people who are merely cultural Catholics within areas such as Central and South America. If Catholics did this better, evangelicals wouldn’t see the significant numbers of drug- dealing, Santa Muerta-praying, Santaria-practicing cultural Catholics and conclude that the good news of the gospel hasn’t been understood.

While in general I agree with this…I’m not sure how the “drug dealing” factor fits in here.
As to the other matters…I had not really heard of these things and, as a Catholic in the U.S. and of Northern European extraction I find such practices foreign and somewhat troubling,
BUT - I would suggest that there are two aspects of these to be examined.
a) As you say the Catholic Church herself needs to do a better job of evangelizing AND watch and investigate such practices carefully so that the good news of the Gospel IS understood…and error does not creep into the Church through these culturally diverse practices.
b) The non-Catholics who see these things should not jump to the wrong conclusions but should seek to understand them more fully both in the life of the given culture and in the life of the Church.
A combination of these two things can go a long way toward reconciling any difficulties.

Peace
James

 

[AbideWithMe]

Catholics are doing catching up in evangelization especially after the Vatican 2 in the sixties where the laities are involved in running the parishes directly (instead of priests) and many have formed into groups to do services for the Lord.

Yes, and I’m very glad to see it.

 

[AbideWithMe]

b) The non-Catholics who see these things should not jump to the wrong conclusions but should seek to understand them more fully both in the life of the given culture and in the life of the Church.

Peace
James

Some Central America cultural practices such as the Mexican Dia de Los Muertes ( Day of the Dead) don’t seem problematic to me, although they’re somewhat disconcerting to me as an outsider to that culture.

But Catholic/pagan syncretism such as Santaria (voodoo) and Candomble is a different story. Guatemala also seems to have areas with large amounts of paganism mixed with Catholicism.

I’m not sure that the misuse of prayer in the popularity of praying to Santa Muerte (Holy Death) and the misappropriation of El Mano Podoroso (The Powerful Hand) qualifies as syncretism, but they are practices of people, it seems to me, who have either retained only a veneer of Catholicism or never understood the gospel to begin with.

I realize that drug dealing is also a problem in the US. As a non-Catholic, I’d tend to assess the US as having really known the gospel through our Protestant ancestors and partially turned from it. While, with these more syncretistic Latin American practices, I’m not qualified to judge whether the gospel has been turned away from, or never really understood.

 

[JRKH]

Some Central America cultural practices such as the Mexican Dia de Los Muertes ( Day of the Dead) don’t seem problematic to me, although they’re somewhat disconcerting to me as an outsider to that culture.

But Catholic/pagan syncretism such as Santaria (voodoo) and Candomble is a different story. Guatemala also seems to have areas with large amounts of paganism mixed with Catholicism.

I’m not sure that the misuse of prayer in the popularity of praying to Santa Muerte (Holy Death) and the misappropriation of El Mano Podoroso (The Powerful Hand) qualifies as syncretism, but they are practices of people, it seems to me, who have either retained only a veneer of Catholicism or never understood the gospel to begin with.

I realize that drug dealing is also a problem in the US. As a non-Catholic, I’d tend to assess the US as having really known the gospel through our Protestant ancestors and partially turned from it. While, with these more syncretistic Latin American practices, I’m not qualified to judge whether the gospel has been turned away from, or never really understood.

I think that you put the matter pretty well above…I wonder if it would be worthwhile to create a thread on these matters. Perhaps others here could give us both some more insights on them. I would definitely be interested in following such a thread.

Edit: A search turned up THIS thread (now closed) from a couple of years ago. glancing through the thread I now see why you mentioend drug dealing earlier…

Peace
James

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

Actually this is a very good forum. I am Episcopalian, and I feel more kinship theologically with Roman Catholics than with, say, Baptists. And some Anglican fora are decidedly PC.

Well personally, as a Catholic, and not having excessive amounts of time to spend online, I don’t spend time on non-Catholic website debating the faith. So why would you expect tons of non-Catholics to spend their time here?

Yes, I know there are those who spend hours and hours of their free time searching the web for opposing points of view so they can engage in a lengthy argument with a total stranger. More power to them. Perhaps if you’re looking for an argument, you could go to a non-Catholic website and jump in

Just my two cents’…

Gertie

 

[504Katrin]

I love it when I hear Christians claim parts of the world for their own churches. It makes no sense to me. How is South America any more intrinsically Catholic than North America or Iran? And why should anyone respect some supposed territory of the Catholic Church? Would the Catholic Church extend the same courtesy to another church claiming religious ownership of a given place?

This is a darn interresting question! See, this is why I like talking with all kinds of different people How comes the Vatican State area belongs to the Catholic Church and noone says anything, but when the Jews claim some land they’re facing all kinds of flack for it.

 

[WeSeeLight]

Is it just my imagination that there are very few non Catholics on this forum? I would have thought that this place would be full of non catholic Christians telling us where we have gone wrong. But no, there are very few.

My supposition is that Protestants (with a few exceptions) don’t hang around here because they cannot debate knowledgeable Catholics.

Perhaps they don’t hang around here because there’s a clause in the Rules which prevents preaching anything that isn’t Roman Catholicism. It is labeled “Proselytizing” and promptly deleted. Since every Protestant has at least one opinion in difference with Rome, any of his/her posts can be labeled as “trying to subvert Catholicism”, and s/he can be banned quickly.

That is why hardly any non-Catholics hang around here.

 

[YKohen]

Actually this is a very good forum. I am Episcopalian, and I feel more kinship theologically with Roman Catholics than with, say, Baptists. And some Anglican fora are decidedly PC.

I agree: This is a great forum with intelligent, thought-provoking, spiritual people in search of G-d and genuinely interested in doing His will.

And I’m an Orthodox Jew.

 

[Reuben_J]

Perhaps they don’t hang around here because there’s a clause in the Rules which prevents preaching anything that isn’t Roman Catholicism. It is labeled “Proselytizing” and promptly deleted. Since every Protestant has at least one opinion in difference with Rome, any of his/her posts can be labeled as “trying to subvert Catholicism”, and s/he can be banned quickly.

That is why hardly any non-Catholics hang around here.

I don’t know how a difference in opinion, even a difference with Rome can cause deletion of the post or even a ban. The Mods are certainly above that. There are many opinions and information about non-Catholic religions being given and discussed openly here. I guess that’s the reason for this section of the Forum.

Proselytizing is against the rule. A poster who come entirely with that motive and purpose will be found out eventually and face the consequence. What obviously disallowed is to insult and willfully make wrong presentation of other religions; and this applies to both Catholics and non-Catholics alike.

 

[guanophore]

Oh, I wouldn’t say that.

Jon

Of course you wouldn’t! That is because you are one of the exceptions.

 

[guanophore]

I must say that I am most curious about the quantifier in your thread title: were you wanting there to be more anti-Catholics?

Non-Catholics are not necessarily “anti” Catholic. All of them espouse anti-Catholic views, but most of them do so in ignorance. They do not realize how far their faith traditions have departed from the Apostolic faith.

I would like to see more lapsed Catholics here. When I left the faith, it was in complete ignorance, self centeredness, and falling prey to lies. I studied my way back, and would like others who have left the faith into which they were baptized to learn that they left because they did not understand.

 

[guanophore]

I, for one, have left this forum many times because of a number of less-than-charitable posts from Catholics. Don’t get me wrong, I love my Roman friends, but it gets old to see “They don’t have valid apostolic succession” posted by 34 different people on the first page of a thread.

You are certainly right that people can be driven away by a lack of charity, and I confess to my shame that some of my posts have been in that “less than charitable” category.

However, repeating what one has been taught (that the Lutheran communion does not have valid apostolic succession) is not necessarily uncharitable. It is a statement of Catholic teaching. I can see how it might be hurtful to the recipient, because we all want to believe that we are clinging to what is true and valid. Of course, the manner in which one promulgates what one has been taught to be true can also be a source of offense.

Surely you would not expect Catholics here NOT to express what they have been taught is true?

 

[robwar]

Is it just my imagination that there are very few non Catholics on this forum? I would have thought that this place would be full of non catholic Christians telling us where we have gone wrong. But no, there are very few.

My supposition is that Protestants (with a few exceptions) don’t hang around here because they cannot debate knowledgeable Catholics.

I am Catholic convert and there is a variety of different faiths and even non-faiths here. Generally birds of a feather flock together. I have no desire to go to protestant, atheists or other faith forums and I would think the same of those who are not Catholic on here. We should always make non-Catholics feel welcome even if we disagree with them.

 

[guanophore]

I seem to have struck a nerve… I apologize if you are offended by what I said. Perhaps I am not making myself clear. I do not fault anyone on this site for posting what they think, especially those who try to witness to a faith not of their own making. All I was trying to say is that it is tiring to see so many people post the same thing, often without really reading the OP’s question. For example, someone asks about Protestant views on the Holy Supper. Instead of addressing the topic, some people like to promote their position without dealing with the topic at hand. So, instead of saying something about what Catholics believe compared to Protestants (or vice-versa), the discussion goes to valid ordination. A worthy topic, to be sure, but not the topic at hand. Make sense?

No, not really, especially on this topic. I say that because for us, the valid succession is not separated from the topic at hand. The Successors of the Apostles, the Bishops, from the first century, considered the only valid “Holy Supper” to be one which was in communion with the bishop consecrated by an Apostle. We are not allowed to change the once for all divine deposit of faith which has been handed down to us, which means, we cannot consider a Protestant Holy Supper valid.

Maybe I am still missing your point?

 

[guanophore]

I understand, but I find that it serves as a useful litmus test.

When I see someone gleefully proclaiming, “Your priests are just laypeople and your sacraments are empty rituals!!!”, I know that this is not a source of useful dialogue.

You are right, of course this is quite different than making a factual statement about the teaching of the Church. And if it were true, the CC would not recieve such priests into RC holy orders when they convert!

No one who has ever participated in Lutheran and Anglican liturgies, especially the high ones, could ever claim it was an “empty ritual”. I guess it could be for any individual attending. When my soul was empty, the RC Mass was an empty ritual for me. But I think that says more about the participant than the liturgy!

When I see someone saying, “It is the understanding of the Catholic Church that you do not have valid apostolic succession”, I think that they might be a source of useful dialogue.

Yes, I agree. I would even go so far as to take out the “you” so that the statement is not so likely to be taken personally, by saying “the CC teaches that …does not have valid…”.

Anytime someone says “you or yours are not valid” it is not conducive to productive dialogue.

 

[LatterDayLady]

I have CAF bookmarked, and I like how active this site is. I’m most definitely in the LURKERS-club, however. Something about my ex-Catholic/now-Lds status seems to irk some readers, even in seemingly benign topic discussions. Go figure I now mostly read the posts, and probably other non/exCatholics do too. Its a great site, and hopefully more of us can become more visable. Not debate, simply participate.

 

[Marie5890]

I have CAF bookmarked, and I like how active this site is. I’m most definitely in the LURKERS-club, however. Something about my ex-Catholic/now-Lds status seems to irk some readers, even in seemingly benign topic discussions. Go figure I now mostly read the posts, and probably other non/exCatholics do too. Its a great site, and hopefully more of us can become more visable. Not debate, simply participate.

The ex-Catholics-now-LDS are certainly a rare breed…Off the top of my head and memory, you are the only one in the past year or so to show up.

 

[LatterDayLady]

The ex-Catholics-now-LDS are certainly a rare breed…Off the top of my head and memory, you are the only one in the past year or so to show up.

Yes, those big-eyed jungle monkeys in National Geographic and I are two rarely seen species… That’s why a sub-forum like this can be fun – lots of variety!

 

[Marie5890]

Yes, those big-eyed jungle monkeys in National Geographic and I are two rarely seen species… That’s why a sub-forum like this can be fun – lots of variety!

What is your take on the former LDS-now Catholics like myself?

There seems to be more of that variety, (myself included) than the variety you are an example of? (former Catholic now LDS?)

 

[MarinerFan]

I check in here almost every day. I enjoy the discussions but I don’t waste time reading the arguments. When I have asked questions they have been answered most cordially.