Not Exactly A Clown Mass, But A Clown Act For Sure

[jmcrae]

Thank you very much!
I don’t think that I’ve heard those terms before and I appreciate you taking the time to explain to me.

You are most welcome.

I actually do know better than to use abbreviations, too - my apologies for the lapse.

 

[Matariel]

“Big gold thing”? There is a little bucket for the water that the altar server holds, and a little stick with a ball on the end that the priest uses for throwing the water to bless the congregation.

I don’t know the proper names for these things, but they aren’t very big.

Since when is anything used to glorify God “too grand”?

And also, it’s called an aspergillum (pl. aspergilla) and I think the bucket’s just called a holy water bucket. The thing which carries the incense is called a boat. The thing in which the incense burns is called a thurible or censer. The candles carried in procession on staffs’re called either flambeaux (sg. flambeau) or torches. The little dish the priest cleanses his hands in is called the lavabo. The little cases in which… ah, I’m just babbling now.

 

[JReducation]

And I think the kit for the blessing with water (the pail and stick) is called an “asperger” but I am not completely certain of that.

LOL, this is funny. I’m not making fun of you, jus the confusion in terms. Asperger is a form of autism. Aspergil or aspergilium is the little hammer with the hollow head used to bless with holy water. A branch may also be used.

For those who believe that the Ordinary Form does not have regulations about this, it certainly does. In the little red letters it in the rituals it clearly says that the holy water must be sprinkled using the aspergil or some other appropriate green branch to signify life. Water pistols of any size are not included in the options.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[Spirithound]

For those who believe that the Ordinary Form does not have regulations about this, it certainly does. In the little red letters it in the rituals it clearly says that the holy water must be sprinkled using the aspergil or some other appropriate green branch to signify life. Water pistols of any size are not included in the options.

hehe, JR, coming in a bit late with this info, aren’t we? :thumbsup:

 

[JReducation]

hehe, JR, coming in a bit late with this info, aren’t we?

I’m sorry, but I had to chuckle first about the Asperger, because I run a ministry to teens with Asperger Syndrome. I was imagining our brothers shaking the kids and water coming out of their heads.

Trust me, sometimes you wish you could rattle them. But we love them anyway.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[I_Believe]

They say that the OF is the greatest thing ever to happen to the TLM - the Latin speaking priests learned how to say their Mass in a reverent manner, and the people who attend it are much more careful nowadays to educate themselves in their faith. This is a good thing.

Ok, you provide to support for your statement there. We’d like to know who “THEY” are.

In the mean time, here are a few opposing viewpoints :

Alluding to the composition of the New Mass, Father Duggan states: "It is enough to compare the text of this Missal (the Missal of 1570) with the Novus Ordo of 1969 to see that there has been a revolutionary change (November AD2000).

Fr Duggan’s contention that the liturgical change is revolutionary is corroborated by Father Joseph Gelineau SJ whose credentials for commenting on the New Mass could scarcely be more authoritative. Fr Gelineau was one of the most influential of Archbishop Bugnini’s Consilium which was charged with composing the New Mass after Vatican II. He was described by the Archbishop as one of “the great masters of the international liturgical world” (The Reform of the Liturgy, page 221). Archbishop Bugnini, it will be recalled, was the principal architect of the Novus Ordo.

In his book Demain la Liturgie (The Liturgy Tomorrow), Fr Gelineau observes: “Let those, who, like myself have known and sung a Latin Gregorian High Mass remember it if they can. Let them compare it with the Mass that we now have. Not only the words, the melodies, and some of the gestures are different. To tell the truth it is a different liturgy of the Mass. This needs to be said without ambiguity: the Roman Rite as we knew it no longer exists (Le Rite Romain tel que nous l’avons connu n’existe plus). It has been destroyed (il est détruit)” (pages 9-10).

Monsignor Klaus Gamber agrees with Fr Gelineau that the Roman Rite has been destroyed. Monsignor writes: “[A]t this critical juncture the traditional Roman Rite, more than one thousand years old, has been destroyed” (The Reform of the Roman Liturgy, page 99).

Father Kenneth Baker SJ, who is editor of the Homiletic & Pastoral Review, concurs with Fr Duggan that the liturgical changes have been revolutionary. Lamenting the numerous changes imposed on the people which they scarcely had time to digest, Fr Baker wrote: “We have been overwhelmed with changes in the Church at all levels but it is the liturgical revolution which touches all of us intimately and immediately” (February 1979).

Cardinal Ratzinger claims that our ecclesial malaise is attributable, at least in part, to the condition of the Liturgy. He writes: “I am convinced that the crisis in the Church that we are experiencing is to a large extent due to the disintegration of the Liturgy” (Milestones, page 148).
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[I_Believe]

The Super Soaker wasn’t a good idea, in my opinion, but then again, that big gold thing that the priests normally use looks entirely too “grand”…so maybe a little humility is in order.

Looks a little too Catholic to you ?

Let’s see, you agree the super soaker is a no no, but while we are at it, let’s throw a ridiculous comment on things traditionally Catholic.

Sure, let’s be humble and sell all the priceless art the Church owns, and commision some contemporary artists to get us up to date.

 

[Matariel]

Sure, let’s be humble and sell all the priceless art the Church owns, and commision some contemporary artists to get us up to date.

Which would be a disservice, ‘cause all those implements of the liturgy are dedicated to the glory of God. That’s why the Church uses precious metals and fine art to worship God, just like the ointment the woman poured over Jesus’ Feet, and then Judas said, “she could’ve given that for money for the poor.”

And then Jesus rebuked him.

It’s for God’s glory, not man’s. That’s Catholicism-101. Sheesh.

 

[Matariel]

…but then again, that big gold thing that the priests normally use looks entirely too “grand”…so maybe a little humility is in order.

For one, the aspergillum isn’t that big at all (sometimes it’s a mere branch) and neither is the bucket, so I don’t know what you’re talking about. And humility? What does that have to do with aspergilla and supersoakers?

No doubt you’d want to strip Solomon’s Temple down, too?

By the way, welcome to the foræ.

 

[I_Believe]

Which would be a disservice, ‘cause all those implements of the liturgy are dedicated to the glory of God. That’s why the Church uses precious metals and fine art to worship God, just like the ointment the woman poured over Jesus’ Feet, and then Judas said, “she could’ve given that for money for the poor.”

And then Jesus rebuked him.

It’s for God’s glory, not man’s. That’s Catholicism-101. Sheesh.

 

[TracyJ]

to offer myself to Him–all of my failings as well as my non-failings, when He gives Himself to me at the Altar.

But no, my questions weren’t what you expect out of the Mass. Maybe my questions are more along the lines of what does the Lord expect from you at the Mass.

Thank you for accepting my apologies. They were sincere.

How can anyone possibly speak on behalf of the Lord?
I have no idea what he wants, but, if there IS a Lord I would hope He would want me to be happy and to enjoy the Mass.
Otherwise why bother with Someone who is never happy and Who is scouting around looking for ways to send me to Hell and who gives me the Mass to make my day miserable?
In the end, such a Being would win anyway and at least I would have temporal happiness.

 

[TracyJ]

For one, the aspergillum isn’t that big at all (sometimes it’s a mere branch) and neither is the bucket, so I don’t know what you’re talking about. And humility? What does that have to do with aspergilla and supersoakers?

No doubt you’d want to strip Solomon’s Temple down, too?

By the way, welcome to the foræ.

I’m not sure where Solomon’s Temple is and no, I don’t want it stripped down, but there’s entirely too much emphasis in ALL religions on money.

Supersoakers are toys for children, in my opinion it’s silly to have them at Mass and since I don’t know the motivation of the priest I have to surmise that :
A-He wanted to give the crowd a laugh
B-…I don’t know really! LOL
But you are correct that I was thinking of the wrong item, I like the idea of a branch btw I’ve never seen that but it’s a nice idea.
I think that there’s too much LA DEE DAH in the church, too much emphasis on vestments, gold, silver, precious jewels. That’s my opinion.

 

[TracyJ]

And I think the kit for the blessing with water (the pail and stick) is called an “asperger” but I am not completely certain of that.

That would be a surprise, but I think that you’re right. There’s a syndrome of the same name.
How interesting.

 

[TracyJ]

You are most welcome.

I actually do know better than to use abbreviations, too - my apologies for the lapse.

Oh please no! I’m the one who is unschooled and you are not responsible for my lack of knowledge although you are most gracious about this whole thing!

 

[pnewton]

I’m not sure where Solomon’s Temple is and no

It was the original temple built in Jerusalem and was very elaborate (1000 BC). If some of the stuff that Catholics do and talk about seem strange, realize that most of the time there is a reason behind it. For example, JREducation mentions the red letters above. Priests have a book they have to follow. The part they say is in black and the part that tells them what to do is written in red. This helps keep all the priests on the same page, kind of like an SOP (standard operating procedure) that businesses use.

This thread started because this priest did not do what he was supposed to.

 

[maurin]

How can anyone possibly speak on behalf of the Lord?
I have no idea what he wants, but, if there IS a Lord I would hope He would want me to be happy and to enjoy the Mass.
Otherwise why bother with Someone who is never happy and Who is scouting around looking for ways to send me to Hell and who gives me the Mass to make my day miserable?
In the end, such a Being would win anyway and at least I would have temporal happiness.

Okay. Well it was a pleasure making your acquaintance.

 

[savienu]

How can anyone possibly speak on behalf of the Lord?
I have no idea what he wants, but, if there IS a Lord I would hope He would want me to be happy and to enjoy the Mass.
Otherwise why bother with Someone who is never happy and Who is scouting around looking for ways to send me to Hell and who gives me the Mass to make my day miserable?
In the end, such a Being would win anyway and at least I would have temporal happiness.

IF there is a Lord?

 

[Layman]

“How can anyone possibly speak on behalf of the Lord?”

The clergy do, regularly. It’s their job. They have a mandate from Him.

For 100,000 years men having been going into wastelands and up mountains, mortifying themselves, and coming back with stories of what God wants. The Christian ones have greatly impressed all who met them, and left explicit instructions about how we can follow them to meet Him.

Also, He has appeared Himself to show us the way.

Suspend disbelief, and join in! The alternative is ordinary misery; a bit of material pleasure here and there, followed by banality and pain.

Re: Ostentatious churches: Getting rid of finery is kind of a Protestant notion.

God should be worshipped by the finest means at your disposal. He’s earned it, He’s entitled to it, and we need every help to get ourselves out of our ordinary state of mind into an extra-ordinary one. Beautiful churches and vestments help to do this.

**If you invite a honoured guest into your home, you get out the good china. If you go to meet a king, you put on your Sunday best. **

 

[wolfgang]

Mere words cannot describe my reaction to this.

 

[Matariel]

I’m not sure where Solomon’s Temple is and no, I don’t want it stripped down, but there’s entirely too much emphasis in ALL religions on money.

That Catholic Church doesn’t put emphasis at all on money. As a matter of fact, it’s the number one charitable organization in the world…

I think that there’s too much LA DEE DAH in the [C]hurch, too much emphasis on vestments, gold, silver, precious jewels. That’s my opinion.

All that “LA DEE DAH” is for the glory of God. Didn’t you see where I posted about the ointment on the Lord’s feet? Judas said “she could’ve given it to the poor”. But then Jesus rebuked her; she had anointed him with precious oil and a precious alabaster box because of her love for Him. It’s the same with the La-dee-dah stuff in Church. The emphasis is not on that. It’s to emphasize the importance of the Sacraments and especially sacredness of God. And I was speaking of Solomon’s Temple in the Bible which the Jews used to glorify God, which was quite la-dee-dah, and God approved of it until it was superceded.