Not having sex until marriage

[jmcrae]

I think it also needs to be firmly planted in people’s minds that

YOU ARE WORTH WAITING FOR.

YOU ARE WORTH COMMITTING TO.

You are worth the making of a public, lifetime, and Sacramental commitment, in the Church in front of both of your families and as many of your friends as you can invite.

**And you should settle for no less than that. **

You are created in the image and likeness of God, Himself. He did not create you for cheap thrills, or for one-night stands, or for “friendship with benefits,” or for anything that is less than a fully committed, permanent, Sacramental marriage.

 

[Benedictus]

Benedictus – Erm, nope, I certainly wasn’t expecting this from a catholic bulletin board !!!, are you catholic ??. I do agree with you in part though. I’ve heard a few guys say that they waited and ended up wishing they hadn’t. Thanks for your comment

No, my position is obviously not a orthodox Catholic position nor did I expect it to be popular on this forum. Although I was once an very orthodox Catholic, I’m probably best described as agnostic with a touch of “spiritual but not religious.”

Now as for why I said what I said…

I’m am not in favor of one night stands, random hook-ups, etc. Nor am I in favor of teen sex. Sex should be between adults in a solid, loving relationship; however, I don’t think that it needs to be reserved until marriage.

Sex can be very life-affirming between two people who love each other. It can help a couple grow together emotionally and understand each other better. It can help relieve tension in a relationship.

On the flip side, waiting years until marriage for sex can add tension to a relationship, especially if a couple feels “tempted” every time they’re together. It’s this tension that can harm a relationship if a couple frequently avoids each other to avoid “temptation” or if a couple feels unhappy when they are together because they’re always fighting their normal, healthy desires.

A couple in a long-term, loving relationship can have sex without it being about instant gratification or merely satisfying their carnal desires. To say such a couple is merely “test driving” each other is silly, bordering on offensive.

Obviously, this position isn’t exactly in harmony with the Catholic Chruch’s teachings or the beliefs of most people here.

 

[jmcrae]

On the flip side, waiting years until marriage for sex can add tension to a relationship, especially if a couple feels “tempted” every time they’re together.

Why “years”? If this is the person that you want to bond with physically, emotionally and spiritually, and also (potentially) have children with, then why not get married to her, and make that commitment to her that you feel in your heart, to be a public and binding commitment? This doesn’t have to take years. In our modern world, it can take months, especially if you want to throw a really good party, but certainly not years.

So that if she gets pregnant (and even the best birth control is known to fail from time to time, even under the strictest conditions), her children have a father, and she has a husband, and you guys are a family. So that pregnancy (which is the most expected outcome of sex, under normal circumstances) isn’t a nasty surprise, or something to panic about.

 

[chevalier]

Blessedtoo – Who says this?, this isn’t the case for most animals?, the males tend to impregnate the female then leave. I’m not proposing we do this but who on earth says we are designed to mate with one person?

Considered the child is as much the man’s as it is the woman’s? How could a man responsibly care for 20 children with 6 women?

Agapewolf – Eh? I don’t get this argument, what is wrong with sleeping with the person I love before / after marriage? ………. Are you implying that if I sleep with my girlfriend before marriage I will be sleeping with other women once married? ……. I do not find that a strong argument. So what If I wait until marriage or not ……. I could still potentially sleep with other women either way?

The argument was that if you were already having marital relations before marriage, then what would change in your life after marriage? All the benefits would have been given beforehand.

As for what’s wrong, that’s reaping without sowing. Immediate satisfaction takes priority before consideration of results. Results are generally bad. People take what doesn’t belong them - then they realise they don’t have where it belongs what they take. Then there’s just sorrow and anguish.

Sanctamaria17 – Hi, why do you assume a guy only wants you for your body? The type of guys who this would apply to are those who will try and get you straight into bed from the word go.

First or fifth date, what’s the difference?

But surely if a guy hangs around without sex for a few months its fairly obvious he wants more than just sex?

How much more? How much does he want it compared to how much he wants sex?

are you suggesting the only thing you have to offer a guy is your virginity? …… I’d hope you had a damn sight more than that to give your future husband.

I’m sure she does and the fact that she wants to give him just that is the best indicator of it (i.e. of the fact she has much more to give).

 

[FLCathMom]

Why “years”? If this is the person that you want to bond with physically, emotionally and spiritually, and also (potentially) have children with, then why not get married to her, and make that commitment to her that you feel in your heart, to be a public and binding commitment? This doesn’t have to take years. In our modern world, it can take months, especially if you want to throw a really good party, but certainly not years. /QUOTE]

Exactly.

People run into trouble when they start dating before they are ready to consider marriage.

 

[Norseman82]

Andy,

So we have a frame of reference to know where you are coming from:

1. How old are you?
2. You said you are not Catholic; what religion are you?

Agapewolf – Eh? I don’t get this argument, what is wrong with sleeping with the person I love before / after marriage? ………. Are you implying that if I sleep with my girlfriend before marriage I will be sleeping with other women once married? ……. I do not find that a strong argument. So what If I wait until marriage or not ……. I could still potentially sleep with other women either way?

Well, for one thing, it is a sin, and in God’s word it says that no fornicator will enter the kingdom of God and that we are to flee fornication, and singles out that particular sin by saying that every other sin a man commits is outside his body, but fornication is against his body (or words to that effect).

Additionally, it shows us our underlying attitudes and predispositions as far as how willing are we to obey God or not.

 

[deb1]

…

I’m am not in favor of one night stands, random hook-ups, etc. Nor am I in favor of teen sex. Sex should be between adults in a solid, loving relationship; however, I don’t think that it needs to be reserved until marriage.

I had many female friends who only had sex when they were in love. Sadly they ended up in a sort of serial mongomy going from one man to the next. Yes, they felt in love with each man but none of the relationships lasted.

Sex can be very life-affirming between two people who love each other. It can help a couple grow together emotionally and understand each other better. It can help relieve tension in a relationship.

As someone who likes sex also, I tend to agree with this. Being Catholic, I believe that the couple should be wed first.

On the flip side, waiting years until marriage for sex can add tension to a relationship, especially if a couple feels “tempted” every time they’re together. It’s this tension that can harm a relationship if a couple frequently avoids each other to avoid “temptation” or if a couple feels unhappy when they are together because they’re always fighting their normal, healthy desires.

Um…how long do you consider a normal engagment? A year seems like a perfectly fine length to me. My hubby was in Afghanistan for six months, I know many military people who are overseas much longer. Should their spouse cheat on them due to the sexual tension. If a married person can wait, then why not a single person?

 

[newbetx]

Andy, We’ve tried to help you with your other threads on this relationship. You need to decide what you want to do. Leave this woman or stay. The bar is high to stay. Question is, do you wish to make the effort. There are no promises.

Sex is healthy under the right context. As known for thousands of years. Why are the last 40, different? We live in a “sex on demand” culture. It really isn’t healthy but I know you can’t see that now. I couldn’t when I was in your shoes.

Read, Andy. I urge you to read about your girlfriend beliefs. Talk and listen. At least you can make the effort to understand. Figure out if you want to live that way.

Many here have and it’s a good thing for us. Others, well, they’ll tell you no big deal, do what you feel. You have a choice. You can pick either with or without good information.

 

[mchale]

No, my position is obviously not a orthodox Catholic position nor did I expect it to be popular on this forum. Although I was once an very orthodox Catholic, I’m probably best described as agnostic with a touch of “spiritual but not religious.”

Now as for why I said what I said…

I’m am not in favor of one night stands, random hook-ups, etc. Nor am I in favor of teen sex. Sex should be between adults in a solid, loving relationship; however, I don’t think that it needs to be reserved until marriage.

Sex can be very life-affirming between two people who love each other. It can help a couple grow together emotionally and understand each other better. It can help relieve tension in a relationship.

Yes it can relieve tension in a relationship, but it can also be used to resolve the tension without resolving the underlying cause of the tension. When a couple waits until they are married to have sex, I believe they are more likely to have developed communication skills that will help them resolve issues. After the issues are resolved, sex is not being used to relieve tension, but rather to reaffirm the bond that was strained by the tension.

On the flip side, waiting years until marriage for sex can add tension to a relationship, especially if a couple feels “tempted” every time they’re together. It’s this tension that can harm a relationship if a couple frequently avoids each other to avoid “temptation” or if a couple feels unhappy when they are together because they’re always fighting their normal, healthy desires.

There are strategies for dealing with that temptation, to lessen it, to control it and to redirect it. They might feel unhappy that they can’t have sex now, but I know a few couples who I am sure waited until they were married to have sex, and they were very glad they did. For a couple who maintained at least some degree of chastity before marriage, the wedding night and the honeymoon are special opportunities to let their relationship develop in a new direction. For those who have engaged in relations before marriage, it is just their first night/vacation together as a married couple.

A couple in a long-term, loving relationship can have sex without it being about instant gratification or merely satisfying their carnal desires. To say such a couple is merely “test driving” each other is silly, bordering on offensive.

If you are offended, that is from your perspective. Sex outside of marriage, is also sex without the promise of the permanent bond that only marriage can bring. It often descends into one party enjoying some of the benefits of marriage without accepting the responsibilities. I know some people really are committed to each other, but many of them are essentially married in fact if not in law or in the eyes of the Church.

I know this, the average woman who is sexually active reports having an average of 8.6 sexual partners in their lifetime (source: physorg.com/news10824.html)). Now, a woman who is a virgin until she is married is likely to have only 1, or 2 if she remarries after the death of her first husband; very few such women are likely to have 8 or more!

Now some of those might be one night stands, but not all of them are. At least some of those 8+ partners are going to be relatively long term relationships. All I know is this, I test drove fewer cars before I bought my last couple of cars.

Obviously, this position isn’t exactly in harmony with the Catholic Chruch’s teachings or the beliefs of most people here.

Nor is it a good strategy if you ultimately want a successful marriage. I am not sure about premarital sex, but living together before marriage greatly increases the odds of a marriage failing to succeed.

–
Bill

 

[Star_of_Night]

Okay, maybe this is just me, but I really wish you people would stop referring to women (and men) as cars. It really is an offensive metaphor. You are not going to teach someone to respect another human’s sexuality by equating that sexuality to a material object that often as not is seen as a status symbol in our culture. It just perpetuates the dehumanization sex in American culture.

Beyond that, equating sleeping with a girl/boyfriend before marriage with test-driving a car is a flawed metaphor. If your friend told you he walked on to a car lot and bought a car without test driving it, or any other car, before he decided, you would probably think he was foolish. And if he told you he spent a couple months hanging out with the car before he decided it was the one for him (without driving it), you’d think he was bonkers.

 

[ODGarza]

To the original Poster:

If YOU REALLY want to find out why it’s important to wait and how you find the strength to wait until marriage, I highly suggest you look at this website and learn more about Pope John Paul II’s Theology of the Body.

christopherwest.com

Good News About Sex and Marriage
This easy-to-read, question-and-answer book by Christopher West offers a fresh, relevant, and convincing presentation of the Church’s teachings on human sexuality and marriage. Rooted in Pope John Paul II’s revolutionary Theology of the Body, this book is great for RCIA, Pre-Cana, and adult education classes.

My prayers are with you.

 

[sanctamaria17]

Trust me, I have more than my virginity. I also believe my virginity is special and precious and I want to give it to the person I commit my life to. Besides, like I said, birth control doesn’t always work and there is NO WAY I can be a pregnant college student. And, not only as a Catholic but as a future doctor, I believe abortion is unethical and I know that I would regret having that done to me. And STI’s can pass through condom usage as well, there’s no way I’m setting myself up for that. Besides, physical touch is my way of expressing and experiencing love. I feel a lot of affection when someone hugs me. I know I’d get super attached to someone I was intimate with and if I’m not going to end up marrying them, what is the point?

And my experience with men is that if they can’t wait for sex, they really are lusting. I’m in college, that’s pretty much the way it is. The guys who want something real are the guys waiting like I am. Not that all men are like that, but that’s the case for the ones I know. And I hang out with a lot of guys who aren’t afraid to say things in mixed company.

 

[newbetx]

Trust me, I have more than my virginity. I also believe my virginity is special and precious and I want to give it to the person I commit my life to. Besides, like I said, birth control doesn’t always work and there is NO WAY I can be a pregnant college student. And, not only as a Catholic but as a future doctor, I believe abortion is unethical and I know that I would regret having that done to me. And STI’s can pass through condom usage as well, there’s no way I’m setting myself up for that. Besides, physical touch is my way of expressing and experiencing love. I feel a lot of affection when someone hugs me. I know I’d get super attached to someone I was intimate with and if I’m not going to end up marrying them, what is the point?

And my experience with men is that if they can’t wait for sex, they really are lusting. I’m in college, that’s pretty much the way it is. The guys who want something real are the guys waiting like I am. Not that all men are like that, but that’s the case for the ones I know. And I hang out with a lot of guys who aren’t afraid to say things in mixed company.

Nice post, sanctamaria! And I might suggest this book on the subject just in case you need something to recommend to someone else who might be at a crossroads.
**Real Love: Answers to Your Questions on Dating, Marriage and the Real Meaning of Sex (Paperback)
**by Mary Beth Bonacci

It’s a long, but very thorough book about chastity and the pitfalls of sex outside of marriage.

 

[Uncle_David]

Mary’s message in Medjugorgje:
Message of December 25, 2007"Dear children! With great joy I bring you the King of Peace for Him to bless you with His blessing. Adore Him and give time to the Creator for whom your heart yearns. Do not forget that you are passers-by on this earth and that things can give you small joys, while through my Son, eternal life is given to you. That is why I am with you, to lead you towards what your heart yearns for. Thank you for having responded to my call." 12/2007

In an earlier message, Mary also said that more people will suffer in Hell because of sins of the flesh than all other sins.

 

[newbetx]

Andy, I’ve taken some time to go back through some of your comments and think about them from a different perspective. Maybe yours. You’ll have to guide us here.

We assume a God and the rules we believe he’s given us. Do you believe that there is a God, or there is no God or are you unsure?

Benicticus – Erm, nope, I certainly wasn’t expecting this from a catholic bulletin board !!!, are you catholic ??. I do agree with you in part though. I’ve heard a few guys say that they waited and ended up wishing they hadn’t. Thanks for your comment

Benicticus is not giving you the Church perspective. He admits this. Sorry, if this confuses you. Some on this forum like to provide personal opin and aren’t always clear that is what it is.

I know of no guy that really wants to wait. They take control of themselves and wait because the woman of their future deserves it. If you are saying that they used to be active and then were chaste until they married someone and then were unhappy, I’m afraid that’s an unfortunate by-product of a sexually permissive society. It’s addressed in the books I have recommended.

Blessedtoo – Who says this?, this isn’t the case for most animals?, the males tend to impregnate the female then leave. I’m not proposing we do this but who on earth says we are designed to mate with one person?

Ah… are we merely intelligent animals or special… This is key point in the permissive sex debate. If we are just animals, then having sex is “natural” and if natural, can’t be bad. But for some reason it is… STD’s, unwanted pregnancies, broken hearts, minds, suicide, murder, adultery. If it were meant that humans didn’t need bonds, security, or family structure, we would not have developed marriage. So permissive sex is NOT natural. Why? I can’t get to all the details here, but read TOB and you’ll get a better understanding than can be made in any post here.

The key to our argument is it’s not someone on Earth that has declared this.

Agapewolf – Eh? I don’t get this argument, what is wrong with sleeping with the person I love before / after marriage? ………. Are you implying that if I sleep with my girlfriend before marriage I will be sleeping with other women once married? ……. I do not find that a strong argument. So what If I wait until marriage or not ……. I could still potentially sleep with other women either way?

What Agapewolf is warning you about is habit and commitment. There is a good possibility (studies has shown) that if someone does not commit to relationships, it becomes habit. and once married, and the desire hits them or the marriage becomes troubled, they may revert to old habit. It is not always the case as many on this forum will attest, but it’s a possibility and we bring it up because it is real.

Sanctamaria17 – Hi, why do you assume a guy only wants you for your body? The type of guys who this would apply to are those who will try and get you straight into bed from the word go. I wouldn’t recommend any women went for those types. But surely if a guy hangs around without sex for a few months its fairly obvious he wants more than just sex?. And what on earth do you mean what will you give your future spouse?, are you suggesting the only thing you have to offer a guy is your virginity? …… I’d hope you had a damn sight more than that to give your future husband.

Thanks for all the comments

If a male is unwilling to commit to a woman without sex, then there is a problem. A mature person doesn’t marry for the ‘quality of sex’ with a person. It’s for all the other reasons. While he may hang around hoping for sex, if sex is a prerequisite to the relationship, she’s saying “too bad”. Sex with your wife is going to be what it is going to be… Unlike the bad analogy that I recall “you try on a pair of shoes before you buy them”, women and their virginity (or yours) is nothing to be taken lightly.

Sanctamaria has WAY more than just virginity to give to her future husband. And she knows it. So does this girl you are interested in. And you know that, too.

You may have difficulty accepting the religious overtones of much that is posted here. There is something called the “natural law” which you may find helpful. You can google that, I think. I’ll try to get to finding a good source, today.

What many have stated is that religion is restrictive so it is bad. For those that understand or wish to believe, we don’t find the guidance restrictive. We find it actually freeing us. The world has to live with order and guidelines. Otherwise, it pure anarchy. A Godless society is very self serving. While it does not see that itself, it is. A society that looks to God is selfless. Or is supposed to be. We all fail here because we are human. But that does not mean we are bad or religion is bad. Just difficult.

 

[Andy_42]

Norseman82 – I am soon to be 28. I’m not religious, nor have I ever been involved with any religion

Nor is it a good strategy if you ultimately want a successful marriage. I am not sure about premarital sex, but living together before marriage greatly increases the odds of a marriage failing to succeed.

Mchale – Where did you read this stat? I read that you are way more likely to stay together with a partner if you marry over 25 and both come from stable, 2 parent families. Coming from a religious background also helped increases the chance of two people staying together, however this only helped increase your chances slightly suggesting it didn’t play a huge part at all.

Andy

 

[newbetx]

Norseman82 – I am soon to be 28. I’m not religious, nor have I ever been involved with any religion

Mchale – Where did you read this stat? I read that you are way more likely to stay together with a partner if you marry over 25 and both come from stable, 2 parent families. Coming from a religious background also helped increases the chance of two people staying together, however this only helped increase your chances slightly suggesting it didn’t play a huge part at all.

Andy

here’s a source marriage.rutgers.edu/

 

[Andy_42]

Hi

Out of interest, to those of you who are married. How long did you date before getting married ??

Thanks
Andy

 

[jmcrae]

Hi

Out of interest, to those of you who are married. How long did you date before getting married ??

Thanks
Andy

About a year and a half, all told. We got engaged after four months of dating, and then our engagement period was long because of various financial and job issues.

 

[newbetx]

Hi

Out of interest, to those of you who are married. How long did you date before getting married ??

Thanks
Andy

date? You mean first to wedding? Or to engagement?

To wedding, almost three years.