Not In the Bible Purgatory

[georgemiller]

The word purgatory is not in the Bible but we still rightfully believe in it. What other Christian beliefs do we have that are not explicitly in the Bible? I can think of Trinity, can you help by naming any others?

 

[Paul2274]

BIBLE is not in the Bible either.

Paul

 

[praestat_fides]

The word purgatory is not in the Bible but we still rightfully believe in it. What other Christian beliefs do we have that are not explicitly in the Bible? I can think of Trinity, can you help by naming any others?

Mary being Co-Redemtrix

Mary as the Medatrix of graces.

Mary being taken up to heaven body and soul.

Mary as ever virgin (Some Apologists have found hints of this belief in the NT)

The idea of indulgences (you know like time off in purgatory for cutting the lawn in a Catholic Cemetary)

 

[Kmon23]

The canon of scripture

Inerrancy of the Bible

Infant Baptism

Transubstantiation

Real Presence

Pope (or leader/steward of the church)

 

[po18guy]

Troll reported.

 

[seagal]

Transubstantiation

Real Presence

I would argue that these 2 concepts are explicitly found in the bible, specifically Luke 22

19 Then he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, ‘This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.’
20 He did the same with the cup after supper, and said, ‘This cup is the new covenant in my blood poured out for you.’

and John 6

53 Jesus replied to them: In all truth I tell you, if you do not eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
54 Anyone who does eat my flesh and drink my blood has eternal life, and I shall raise that person up on the last day.
55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.
56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood lives in me and I live in that person.

 

[Porknpie]

The word purgatory is not in the Bible but we still rightfully believe in it. What other Christian beliefs do we have that are not explicitly in the Bible? I can think of Trinity, can you help by naming any others?

Depends on what Christian belief is being referred to (Catholic, Protestant etc)… but here is a list depending on what Church or denomination that you walk into. Mind you, to be clear, some items on the list are pretty absurd from a Catholic viewpoint for even when the bible is explicitly clear, some have said it is not … these are thoughts that emerged generally from the reformation onward (ie, denying the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist and Salvific baptism as two examples)

Sola Scriptura

Plus

Altar calls
Attend weekly services vs Church services when one feels like it
Attending Wednesday Church services
Baptismal form–immersion, sprinkling or pouring?
Baptism … adults only? infants only?
Baptism Salvific or not?
Can men and women sit together during services?
Death/Soul Sleep
Divorce and re-marriage
Drinking permitted? Sinful?
Head coverings or no head coverings
Health and wealth gospel
Hell, or no hell
Homosexuality ok or not.
Is God‘s Holy Name Jehovah
Is it permissible for women to teach Scripture?
Judge others, don’t judge others
Music or no music
Once saved, always saved? Can one lose one’s salvation
Ordination
Predestination
Rapture
The Eucharist (Communion)
Tongues (some believe others are not saved if they don’t speak in tongues)
Trinity vs. Unitarianism
What is original sin and its effects on humanity
What’s a sin, what is not a sin
When to celebrate the Lord’s Day
Women pastors, no women pastors

 

[Porknpie]

Mary as ever virgin (Some Apologists have found hints of this belief in the NT)

You do know that ALL the major reformers held to this belief as well (Zwingli, Calvin, Luther). On this point, they make excellent Catholic apologists.

More here.

Why? They all understood the bible and the Tradition of the Church for 1500+ years on this point. Luther comments that Jesus would never have given Mary to John on the cross - no good Jew would ever have done so…giving their mother to a non family member. This would have been unthinkable and proof that Mary had no other children.

Also, it’s interesting that identical to Jesus, NO ONE, ANYWHERE, through HISTORY has ever claimed to have Mary’s body. This is quiet stunning when we can find the resting places of all the apostles and saints through history.

If you want to disprove Christianity: find the body of Jesus
If yo want to disprove Catholicism: find the body of Mary

Neither are here on earth.

PnP

 

[Richard_White]

Infant Baptism

Peter baptized entire households (including children) into the Church, as recounted in the Acts of the Apostles.

Transubstantiation

Real Presence

“For My Flesh is true food and My Blood is true drink.” “This IS My Body…This IS My Blood.”

Pope (or leader/steward of the church)

“You are Peter, and on this Rock, I shall build My Church, and the gates of the netherworld shall NEVER prevail against it.”

 

[praestat_fides]

I would argue that these 2 concepts are explicitly found in the bible, specifically Luke 22

and John 6

I think what he means is that the word itself is not in the text.

 

[Tom_Baum]

Mary’s parents being named Anne and Joachim.

 

[Porknpie]

Here’s a Christian belief (or practice) that I stopped to take a picture of earlier today. It’s not found in the bible that we should do so - worship God in a gym. I should note, even Catholics have Mass in gyms sometimes, especially at Christmas or Easter to handle a larger number of people attending. But it is a practice the we seldom do at other times during the year. I’m not sure what the worship consists of that the sign is drawing people’s attention to. I am a bit curious. Perhaps I’ll stop by. With my basketball.

 

[JohnR77]

The word purgatory is not in the Bible but we still rightfully believe in it.

El Snako makes good case for Purgatory being in the Bible. Not the Latin word but the Hebrew word.

defendingthebride.com/sc/purgatory2.html

.

 

[whoisdiss]

I think it is illogical to deny the exitence of purgatory, based on two passaged in scripture. 1 John 5:16-17 says that there is certain sin that leads to death (mortal sin) and that there is other sin that does not lead to death (venial sin). Now in Revelation 21:27 it says nothing unpure can enter into heaven. So, if you still have unforgiven sin on you of any kind, you can not get into heaven. But wait, the Bible says that not all sin leads to hell. What if someone dies with no unforgiven mortal sin, but still has unforgiven venial sin on his soul… where would he go? He can not go to hell, it is venial sin. He can not go to heaven because it is still sin. The only other logical concept would be a state in which these sins can be purged so he can go to heaven, hence Purgatory.

 

[Tom_Baum]

I think it is illogical to deny the exitence of purgatory, based on two passaged in scripture. 1 John 5:16-17 says that there is certain sin that leads to death (mortal sin) and that there is other sin that does not lead to death (venial sin). Now in Revelation 21:27 it says nothing unpure can enter into heaven. So, if you still have unforgiven sin on you of any kind, you can not get into heaven. But wait, the Bible says that not all sin leads to hell. What if someone dies with no unforgiven mortal sin, but still has unforgiven venial sin on his soul… where would he go? He can not go to hell, it is venial sin. He can not go to heaven because it is still sin. The only other logical concept would be a state in which these sins can be purged so he can go to heaven, hence Purgatory.

In this passage you wrote, “1 John 5:16-17 says that there is certain sin that leads to death (mortal sin) and that there is other sin that does not lead to death (venial sin).” and you also wrote, “But wait, the Bible says that not all sin leads to hell.”

In one you wrote DEATH and in the other HELL, they are not the same.

Jesus told us the “mission” of His Church is that “the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against It”.

The “netherworld” is hell and spiritual death, they are not the same but Jesus, by His Work on the Cross “won” the “keys” to the netherworld and will use these “keys” in due time, God’s Time.

As Jesus said, “the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against It”.

 

[randomusername]

In this passage you wrote, “1 John 5:16-17 says that there is certain sin that leads to death (mortal sin) and that there is other sin that does not lead to death (venial sin).” and you also wrote, “But wait, the Bible says that not all sin leads to hell.”

In one you wrote DEATH and in the other HELL, they are not the same.

Jesus told us the “mission” of His Church is that “the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against It”.

The “netherworld” is hell and spiritual death, they are not the same but Jesus, by His Work on the Cross “won” the “keys” to the netherworld and will use these “keys” in due time, God’s Time.

As Jesus said, “the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against It”.

Well people with venial sins do die, so it clearly doesn’t mean death literally. I think it means spiritual death and going to Hell. Your keys and stuff doesn’t really add anything. Spiritual death still means spiritual death, and it clearly can’t mean physical death.

 

[fnr]

Transubstantiation

“Give us this day our daily bread” (both the Matthean and Lukan form of the Lord’s Prayer).

The Greek:
“Τὸν ἄρτον ἡμῶν τὸν ἐπιούσιον δὸς ἡμῖν σήμερον”

Exact translation:
Τὸν – This/that/these
ἄρτον – Bread
ἡμῶν / ἡμῖν - Me/my
ἐπιούσιον – Trans-Substantial (literally epiousios = trans + substance)
δὸς – Give/Furnish
σήμερον – This day / What has happened today

So actually trans-substantiation is in the Bible. In its literal wording. Try to make it mean what you like, but it is what it is. Makes a lot more sense of putting the Lord’s Prayer in the middle of the Eucharistic prayer.

 

[po18guy]

“Give us this day our daily bread” (both the Matthean and Lukan form of the Lord’s Prayer).

The Greek:
“Τὸν ἄρτον ἡμῶν τὸν ἐπιούσιον δὸς ἡμῖν σήμερον”

Exact translation:
Τὸν – This/that/these
ἄρτον – Bread
ἡμῶν / ἡμῖν - Me/my
ἐπιούσιον – Trans-Substantial (literally epiousios = trans + substance)
δὸς – Give/Furnish
σήμερον – This day / What has happened today

So actually trans-substantiation is in the Bible. In its literal wording. Try to make it mean what you like, but it is what it is. Makes a lot more sense of putting the Lord’s Prayer in the middle of the Eucharistic prayer.

For those who rely on bible alone, trying to understand the New Covenant by the scriptures alone is like trying to understand the engineering of your car by reading the owner’s manual.

For this reason perhaps, the Lord’s prayer in Matthew is worded:

Matthew 6:11
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
11 Give us this day our supersubstantial bread.

Saint Jerome translated it into the Latin as:

“Panem nostrum supersubstantialem da nobis hodie,”

As well, those who deny transubstantiation should ponder why the New Testament is called the “New Testament.” Those two words appear together only at the consecration in the upper room. Jesus’ Body and Blood (with the soul and divinity contained therein) - and nothing else - make up the New Testament.

 

[fnr]

For those who rely on bible alone, trying to understand the New Covenant by the scriptures alone is like trying to understand the engineering of your car by reading the owner’s manual.

Saint Jerome translated it into the Latin as: As well, those who deny transubstantiation should ponder why the New Testament is called the “New Testament.” Those two words appear together only at the consecration in the upper room. Jesus’ Body and Blood (with the soul and divinity contained therein) - and nothing else - make up the New Testament.

To me, another big clue (lost on most Protestants) about the historicity of transubstantiation is the inclusion of the Lord’s Prayer in the actual Eucharistic Prayer in the Latin liturgy // Anaphora in the Eastern Liturgies. Without the epiousios bread in the Lord’s Prayer, the “daily bread” translation kinda seems like an indirect reference to the Eucharist. When viewed as “supersubstantial,” it makes the Lord’s Prayer reflect the Eucharist itself, as I think it really does.

 

[Hawkiz]

“Give us this day our daily bread” (both the Matthean and Lukan form of the Lord’s Prayer).

The Greek:
“Τὸν ἄρτον ἡμῶν τὸν ἐπιούσιον δὸς ἡμῖν σήμερον”

Exact translation:
Τὸν – This/that/these
ἄρτον – Bread
ἡμῶν / ἡμῖν - Me/my
ἐπιούσιον – Trans-Substantial (literally epiousios = trans + substance)
δὸς – Give/Furnish
σήμερον – This day / What has happened today

So actually trans-substantiation is in the Bible. In its literal wording. Try to make it mean what you like, but it is what it is. Makes a lot more sense of putting the Lord’s Prayer in the middle of the Eucharistic prayer.

Love this! I would like to use in my future discussions with your permission? Can you elaborate on your sources so that I may utilize them as well? Thank you SO much for posting this. I had read before the explanation about it really meaning ‘super-substantial’ bread but had not ever seen anyone break down the Greek so clearly. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Amen!

Peace in Christ