Not just another CITH Thread...

[EnchantedEve]

Well, if its being done well in other parts of the Church, why can’t it be done well with our part of the Church? Would placing the incense on the communion line so people can purify their hands the way the Chaldeans do make CITH more acceptable to you?

COTT also isn’t risk free from profanity. Like I always say, if someone is ignorant enough or has enough of a desire to profane the Holy Eucharist, it will be done either way.

At this point, I leave it to the knowledge of the leadership whether to recind the indult. I agree with Bro. JR. First, its not our place to be saying it should be recinded. There are considerations they make that we are not knowledgable of. I apply here my knowledge of business and project management. When I was only a lowly programmer, I always think my bosses are dumb, because sometimes the choices from my point of view are obvious, but they don’t do it or see it. When I assumed a leadership role, I realize its not always that simple. As a programmer all I saw was myself and my boss. As a project leader, I see all the members of the team, the upper management, plus the customer. The Pope, the Cardinals and all the other Bishops are the same way. They see more of the Church than we do so they can make a better call on how to handle things. Was CITH a mistake? Maybe, but they can’t just yank it from under our feet lets they introduce chaos into the Church. Every move has to be thought of carefully. We have to leave it to them, its their job, its their responsibility, and they are the ones called to serve the Church in that capacity.

I personally like the incense practice, although it would seem odd to us westerners. By the way, Ethiopians do practice liturgical dance, so who knows about that…

Anyway, I disagree we must leave it all to the “almighty hierarchy,” though. Even Pope Pius XII stated the dogma of the Assumption arose from popular demand, (so to speak).

 

[ConstantineTG]

Wish I’d posted that too. How much will the royalty fee be?

I can give you a free 1 month trial then if you don’t opt out you are automatically enrolled into a three year contract. You have to send me your credit card info plus a copy of the deed to your home and car.

Something tells me I have received one too many marketing scams

 

[ConstantineTG]

I personally like the incense practice, although it would seem odd to us westerners. By the way, Ethiopians do practice liturgical dance, so who knows about that…

Inculturization within the Church allows for liturgical dance to culture who traditionally have dancing as part of their worship practices. I’m not surprised if this is allowed to Africans and South Pacific Islanders. I’d have to ask about First Nations/Native Americans, I come across their Catechists during our quarterly training Institue.

Anyway, I disagree we must leave it all to the “almighty hierarchy,” though. Even Pope Pius XII stated the dogma of the Assumption arose from popular demand, (so to speak).

It was still up to them to allow something or approve something. People can clamour for something but the say will come from the leadership. Divorce and remarriage has been popular the last 20-30 years, I don’t see the Church ever making a move on that one.

 

[ConstantineTG]

COTT and the TLM were yanked from under our feet. As the seminarian here just posted it is often difficult to receive COTT while kneeling now.

All Catholics have a duty to protect and practice the faith. People have always been talking about changes to the Church so it’s a bit outlandish to suggest we have no right to be discussing these things. Leading clergy are talking publically about rethinking CITH so all we’re doing is following their lead.

But still the ultimate decision lies with the leadership. I’m pretty sure the Jewish Christians of the first century were not too happy about uncircumcized Gentiles coming into the Church. But the Apostles and other elders of the Church back then approved it and so it became law. The Jews were intent to keep their traditions given that the 12 were Jewish, and so was Jesus, so keeping a over a thousand year tradition made sense to them. But the Apostles, St. Paul particularly, is more interested in saving more people than keeping such traditions that do not contribute to one’s salvation.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Just to mention, it is a myth our mouths our dirtier than our hands. It depends on the circumstance, of course!

Yes, but thats generally speaking. The saliva in our mouths ensure a healthy colony of bacteria in there. Plus the food particles, the temperature, all contribute to a healthy environment for bacteria. If you gargle with an anticeptic mouthwash and if you wash your hands with anti-bacterial soap, your mouth will grow more bacteria in the next hour than your hands.

I’m just saying, from a cleanliness perspective, our mouths are dirty as well. So what can make the mouth more worthy than our hands? We may use our hands to scratch our butt and pick our nose, as the earlier posted has shared, but we also use our hands to carry our child, hold our loved ones, feed ourselves and others, help the needy, etc. Same with our mouths. As easy as we can pray and sing praises to God, we can say curses to our neighbor. The true measure of worthiness is in our hearts.

 

[Ockham]

But still the ultimate decision lies with the leadership. I’m pretty sure the Jewish Christians of the first century were not too happy about uncircumcized Gentiles coming into the Church. But the Apostles and other elders of the Church back then approved it and so it became law. The Jews were intent to keep their traditions given that the 12 were Jewish, and so was Jesus, so keeping a over a thousand year tradition made sense to them. But the Apostles, St. Paul particularly, is more interested in saving more people than keeping such traditions that do not contribute to one’s salvation.

COTT is a greater form of reverance thus contributes to a strong belief in the Real Presence. Pope Paul VI said so. A diminished belief in the Real Presence leads to missing weekly Mass which puts the soul in jeopardy of eternal damnation. The numbers these past forty years prove it.

 

[ConstantineTG]

COTT is a greater form of reverance thus contributes to a strong belief in the Real Presence. Pope Paul VI said so. A diminished belief in the Real Presence leads to missing weekly Mass which puts the soul in jeopardy of eternal damnation. The numbers these past forty years prove it.

I’ve known people who received COTT and left the Church anyway.
I know people who receive CITH who are very devout.
I really wish I can provide a scientific study thats conclusive, but by my personal experience is that people’s devotion does not depend on the form or reception of the Eucharist.

Isn’t the same can be argued between immersion vs. pouring for baptism? That immersion has a stronger meaning, especially for an adult, as they are dunked three times until their out of breath. The more they feel that they die with Christ and coming up they are resurrected with Christ. We never agrue about immersion vs. pouring. No doubt given that explanation that immersion would produce better Christians than pouring.

 

[Ockham]

I know priests who have left the Church. Does that mean the priesthood should be done away with?

Pope Paul VI said in the indult that CITH presented a risk to belief in the Real Presence. Guess what happened?

 

[ProVobis]

Just to mention, it is a myth our mouths our dirtier than our hands.

Especially when one considers we do more typing than talking these days.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I know priests who have left the Church. Does that mean the priesthood should be done away with?

Pope Paul VI said in the indult that CITH presented a risk to belief in the Real Presence. Guess what happened?

And as we’ve discussed in recent pages, how do you prove that its a direct cause and not a coincidence? There is a ton of things that has happened since Vatican II and then the granting of the CITH indult in the 70s. From liberalization of the media, public acceptance of single parenthood, divorce, remarriage, same-sex partnership, etc. There’s so many things today that contribute not only in the decline in the belief of the Real Presence, but decline in the faith overall

 

[ConstantineTG]

Especially when one considers we do more typing than talking these days.

Buy those Lysol wipes and clean your keyboards regularly then

 

[ProVobis]

That immersion has a stronger meaning

Would you do that to your baby?

 

[ProVobis]

And as we’ve discussed in recent pages, how do you prove that its a direct cause and not a coincidence?

Not a coincidence as they just aren’t taught it anymore. Or if they are, how would they really believe when they see so much casual host taking from bread lines?

 

[ProVobis]

Buy those Lysol wipes and clean your keyboards regularly then

Lysol couldn’t disinfect enough.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Would you do that to your baby?

Honestly, no. I read a few weeks ago a baby died during (or immediately after) an Orthodox baptism and the priest was going to be sued for involuntary manslaughter.

But when my priest had the homily and he explained the hows and whys of immersion, the message sounds pretty powerful. Not only was the baptism a symbolism of us dying and rising with Christ, but through immersion we have a closer feeling of what its like gasping for air and thus have a more authentic near-dying experience.

Besides, my baby was baptized in the hospital. All those things that were attached to him wouldn’t have allowed for immersion even if I wanted to. And his experience is as close to dying as immersion would give you. He was in the operating room 2 hours after baptism at 5 days old. He’s fine now, he turns 5 months old today.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Lysol couldn’t disinfect enough.

You could actually dunk youg keyboard into a tub of soapy water and wash it off. Just make sure you use a hair dryer thoroughly before reconnecting it to your computer.

Oh, someone just told me that and I’ve never tried it, so do it at your own risk

I make sure my hands are clean through when I go to Mass and receive CITH.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Not a coincidence as they just aren’t taught it anymore. Or if they are, how would they really believe when they see so much casual host taking from bread lines?

Well, its more obvious with CITH. How can you tell someone receiving COTT just because he was only taught COTT. It looks the same way for everyone, so its hard to tell if one believe in the Real Presence or not. Its one thing to believe, its another to do just because you’re told.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I personally like the incense practice, although it would seem odd to us westerners.

I would really like to know how Traditionalists would react to this. I think its a wonderful practice that instills reverence for CITH. This is an age old practice in another part of the Church, I wonder how Latin Rite traditionalists would accept it? Would they accept receiving from a golden spoon at a TLM? I don’t know.

 

[Julianna]

One thing Ive learned in CAF is the quickest way to hell is to hold hands at the Our Father followed by Recieving Communin in the hands. i have often wondered why people are so obsessed with what i am doing with my hands during Mass?

estesbob…you silly man, you don’t know? It is because “they” are “right” and you are “wrong” and you aren’t “reverent” enough, or “holy” enough, or “pious” enough, …

either that, or you focus is where it should be during mass…and they all busybodies…

 

[ProVobis]

You could actually dunk youg keyboard into a tub of soapy water and wash it off. Just make sure you use a hair dryer thoroughly before reconnecting it to your computer.

Seriously, I don’t think the computer keyboard is the problem unless you can find one that types by itself.

But, I have to ask. Do you type with your tongue?