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laudamus_te
Guest
There is no such thing as an “SSPX Church.”
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jmcrae
Guest
Then why do they blatantly and openly disregard and disobey everything that he says?
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paramedicgirl
Guest
I’m not in schism. I don’t go to the “SSPX Church.” I go to a modern NO church where people clap to the music and talk throughout the Mass, and where we sing songs like We are one in the Spirit and Lord of the Dance, and where the sign of peace is a fiasco.
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Walking_Home
Guest
Justify my schism—I attend an NO church. What cannot be justified—is the attitude some people have toward the SSPX. Seems everyone bends over backwards to the Orthodox–to the protestants etc.----yet the SSPX gets nothing but bashing. Apparently—Charity does not reach to the SSPX.
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paramedicgirl
Guest
WH - At least we make two NO Catholics who know how to be charitable to the SSPX.
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laudamus_te
Guest
Fine, close your eyes and stamp your foot. But later, you might want to do some solitary reading of books (not internet forums) that present alternate views to what you have so firmly planted in your own mind to be truth.
I go to an SSPX chapel, and I am proud to say that I do. I have the finest priests that I have ever known in my life (50 years, by the way). I am not in schism. I have studied the situation, and I continue to study it daily, and every day I am more certain that I have taken the correct path.
I have no desire to lead anyone else to the SSPX, that is a decision each must make on their own, but I do desire to correct the lies and attacks that are vomited out towards them and those who attend their chapels continually from the likes of you. That said, I am heartened by people like paramedicgirl and Walking_Home. Thanks for your openmindedness and understanding!
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MariaGorettiGrl
Guest
I don’t think anyone’s intending to bash anyone else (at least I hope not :crying: ). The problem is that while the SSPX consider themselves still part of the Church, the other side disagrees. No one likes to be accused of being seperated from their church, but it is true that the SSPX are not in union with Rome.
The Pope is not perfect and always right, but God did set him up to lead the church. If every one of us is left to judge what of the Pope’s rules we follow and which ones we do not, we will each end up doing our own thing and there will be no unity.
This isn’t hate. I don’t hate SSPXers or NOers or Christmas and Easter Catholics or athiests or Protestants or people who don’t really know what they believe. We’re all children of God. Sometimes in seeking to please God, we get lost. It seems to me that everyone here is just trying to do what they think is most pleasing to God, so at least the intentions are good.
The Pope is not perfect and always right, but God did set him up to lead the church. If every one of us is left to judge what of the Pope’s rules we follow and which ones we do not, we will each end up doing our own thing and there will be no unity.
This isn’t hate. I don’t hate SSPXers or NOers or Christmas and Easter Catholics or athiests or Protestants or people who don’t really know what they believe. We’re all children of God. Sometimes in seeking to please God, we get lost. It seems to me that everyone here is just trying to do what they think is most pleasing to God, so at least the intentions are good.
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paramedicgirl
Guest
The SSPX are considered an internal matter of the Church, not in full communion with Rome. The laity are not in schism, and I’ll look for a reference, but I think Cardinal Hoyas also said the priests are not in schism.I don’t think anyone’s intending to bash anyone else (at least I hope not :crying: ). The problem is that while the SSPX consider themselves still part of the Church, the other side disagrees. No one likes to be accused of being seperated from their church, but it is true that the SSPX are not in union with Rome.
The Pope is not perfect and always right, but God did set him up to lead the church. If every one of us is left to judge what of the Pope’s rules we follow and which ones we do not, we will each end up doing our own thing and there will be no unity.
This isn’t hate. I don’t hate SSPXers or NOers or Christmas and Easter Catholics or athiests or Protestants or people who don’t really know what they believe. We’re all children of God. Sometimes in seeking to please God, we get lost. It seems to me that everyone here is just trying to do what they think is most pleasing to God, so at least the intentions are good.
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paramedicgirl
Guest
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laudamus_te
Guest
Well, besides “don’t consecrate those bishops,” what? Give me an example. You make the Pope sound like a traffic cop.Then why do they blatantly and openly disregard and disobey everything that he says?
God established the papacy to uphold the teachings of the Church, not for a pope to make his own rules and command us to obey. It is absolutely our duty to know when the Pope is leading the Church into error, and then it is our duty not to obey.
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MariaGorettiGrl
Guest
Absolutely. The reason it’s still an internal matter even though the SSPX church is not in union with Rome is because they still celebrate the Mass and have mostly valid sacraments and people do not always know that there is a difference between an SSPX Mass and a indult Latin Mass. So you have people who go to an SSPX Mass not knowing that it is illicit.
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gorman64
Guest
What does this mean? Aren’t the Orthodox, the Anglicans, and all those other protestant sects also “not in full communion”?
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paramedicgirl
Guest
And you have people going to the SSPX Mass for love of the ancient rite, with all its tradition, beauty, sacredness and reverence. The SSPX are steeped in tradition and love of God and it shows in their Masses.Absolutely. The reason it’s still an internal matter even though the SSPX church is not in union with Rome is because they still celebrate the Mass and have mostly valid sacraments and people do not always know that there is a difference between an SSPX Mass and a indult Latin Mass. So you have people who go to an SSPX Mass not knowing that it is illicit.
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paramedicgirl
Guest
Not really. They are schismatics and heretics. The SSPX is neither.
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gorman64
Guest
laudamus te:
A true pope cannot “lead the Church into error”…and I assume you mean errors in faith and morals. That’s why I don’t believe these men were true popes.
Our Lord instructs us to “beware” of false prophets who disguise their wolf-nature. St. Gregory, I believe, tells us that He said “beware” to put us on our guard, because we would need to be diligent in identifying these wolves who would be harder to discern because of their efforts at concealment. Our Lord then immediately says, “By their fruits ye shall know them.” Look it up in St. Matthew’s Gospel - the Sermon on the Mount.
So the fruits are as evil as one could imagine. That is the fundamental traditional Catholic premise. Everything else flows from that premise and builds upon it.
Gorman
Dear laudamus te,
A true pope cannot “lead the Church into error”…and I assume you mean errors in faith and morals. That’s why I don’t believe these men were true popes.
Our Lord instructs us to “beware” of false prophets who disguise their wolf-nature. St. Gregory, I believe, tells us that He said “beware” to put us on our guard, because we would need to be diligent in identifying these wolves who would be harder to discern because of their efforts at concealment. Our Lord then immediately says, “By their fruits ye shall know them.” Look it up in St. Matthew’s Gospel - the Sermon on the Mount.
So the fruits are as evil as one could imagine. That is the fundamental traditional Catholic premise. Everything else flows from that premise and builds upon it.
Gorman
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gorman64
Guest
On the contrary, paramedicgirl, the conciliar church teaches that they are particular churches…just not in “full communion”. This “partial communion” stuff is a novelty of Vatican II and is nowhere to be found prior to that…look it up. The Church is a body…when a member is severed from that body it dies…it has no part with the body still united to it’s head. Check the teaching of St. Paul…look at the unity of the Church as taught in Satis Cognitum…Mystici Corporis…these teachings are incompatible with this new notion of “partial communion”.
Gorman
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labernadette
Guest
Just because a pope is a bad pope, does not mean that he is not a pope.
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paramedicgirl
Guest
So you are saying that the conciliar church has dropped the definition of heretics and schismatics as formerly applied to protestants and Eastern Orthodox and now just refers to them as “outside the church?” Come to think of it, the only place I’ve heard a priest use the word “heretic” lately was in an SSPX homily.
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laudamus_te
Guest
I understand that a pope’s infallibility comes into play in very limited circumstances (it must concern faith or morals, it must not be something new, and it must be defined), otherwise he can be in error.
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gorman64
Guest
I am not speaking of a “bad pope”. I am speaking of one who “leads the Church into error”. There is a world of difference. History shows us many “bad popes” but never a pope “who leads the Church into error”.
The Holy Ghost protects the Pope from doing such a thing…if one does such a thing…he must be avoided. Now, we can’t avoid our own head can we?
Gorman
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