Not sure how to proceed, NFP or not

[samovila]

As of right now we are nursing on demand. (and boy does she demand ) I’ve never been able to go past three months nursing because I’ve had to return to work and pumping killed my supply. I’m not working now so I am hoping to go longer, ultimately I want to go at least a year. Anyway I know that breastfeeding is not a very reliable “birth control” (for lack of better words).

Spacing is an important factor. Pregnancy really does take it’s toll on the body; after all there is 15 months between Mary and Veronica, and I could definitely feel it on my body. And part of my not wanting to chart is sheer laziness. I don’t want to be bothered with it.

Well, bravo for hanging in there with the nursing and I hope you are able to continue for at least a year like you said. I think exclusive breast feeding is a much more reliable “birth control” than popular society and pill pushers would have you believe. Here is more information on breast feeding and delaying the return of fertility: kellymom.com/bf/normal/fertility.html

My little guy is almost 6 months old and my daugther is almost 2 1/2. I didn’t see a return of fertility symptoms until my daugther was about 10 or 11 months old. With my son, they are starting to creep back now. After my first, I did a scaled back version of NFP with just keeping track loosely of the dates of AF and CM checks whenever I was in the bathroom and thought of it. Now that we have two little ones we are much more serious about delaying pregnancy right now so I started temping and charting again. If you don’t want to do all that, simply being aware of your body’s natural signs of fertility might be enough for you to go on to avoid getting pregnant until you’ve recovered from this last pregnancy. It’s a little less reliable than charting, but it sounds like you’re ok with a lower level of reliability.

 

[Tosk]

That is why I was saying spacing in itself wasn’t a reason, since technically using NFP to avoid is spacing since other children could come later when the reason to avoid goes away (unless the couple knows that barring any miracle the reason they have to avoid will never go away), and like the Catechism mentions, “For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children”, which suggests that there need to be just reasons. A woman’s health can certainly be a just reason to space, but different women may need different times to recover, like you said something to discuss with your doctor, better yet if your doctor is a pro-life Catholic . ** Randomly saying, for example, that one needs x years between each birth isn’t the same as taking each case separately**, as every woman, and for that matter every pregnancy, can be different, and while some may have a reason to have to wait 3 years, or even more, or maybe even not have any more children, others can prudently be open to pregnancy way before .

It isn’t random at all, the data shows that there is a significantly smaller risk for a miscarriage if pregnancies are spaced at least 2-3 years apart. Spacing is a serious enough reason to use NFP for that reason alone and nearly every woman will have to use some method of natural birth control during her child bearing years. There is no good reason to throw caution to the wind and just trust in God. nobody advises people to drive without a seat belt and just trust in God, or to just let God decide the best way to treat a snake bite. God gave us our brain for a reason.

If somebody wants their children closer together they are adults and are free to do as they please. But they should realize that they are ignoring a serious reason to use NFP and not advise other people to do the same.

I know several Catholic families that have closely spaced children. In one of the families the father is a doctor of internal medicine, another one is the head surgeon of a hospital, another one a ped, and there are other doctors and professionals that I know of too. These people are good practicing Catholics that are well aware of the Church’s teachings on NFP, I cannot imagine them being considered “irresponsible” for not spacing their children more and I cannot imagine these doctors being ok with this spacing if it was totally detrimental to their wives’ health. Now, I agree, a woman might need x amount of time after the birth of a child, and that would be the just reason, not the spacing itself, but the need to not get pregnant yet, and when this need is gone, so is the reason.

I know of many doctors who smoke and abuse prescription meds. Doctors take risks just like everybody else. Just because a doctor is willing to do something doesn’t make it risk free or smart.

 

[BiologyBrain]

I gave birth to our fourth child Veronica two weeks ago. So for the past two weeks I have been really struggling with how to proceed with our NFP. My biggest question I always come to is would it be irresponsible to not chart at all and go as God leads us? I don’t have any medical issues that really require me to chart. So basically I don’t need to avoid for health reasons. Financially we are not great, but we’ve always been able to put food on the table and pay our bills.

I’ve tried to discuss it with my husband, but he pretty much gives me the same answer, “What ever you want dear.” And those really are his words.

Now to be honest with you, I don’t want to chart. I find it to be a hassle and I have a hard time staying committed to it. And then trying to throw temping in there, well, I just don’t see it happening.

Thanks for listening, I needed to throw out some thoughts.

Congrats on your 4th baby! Sounds wonderful!

No its definitely not irresponsible to not chart - even if you know how - simply b/c its not a requirement. It can make things easier (like if you have health issues), but I can also see that if you’re doing temps too it can be a hassle. You could also give up charting for a while & if you decide at a later time its a better idea to chart, you already know how! I’d take a break from it & see how you feel about it 6 months down the road! Good luck!

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

It isn’t random at all, the data shows that there is a significantly smaller risk for a miscarriage if pregnancies are spaced at least 2-3 years apart. Spacing is a serious enough reason to use NFP for that reason alone and nearly every woman will have to use some method of natural birth control during her child bearing years. There is no good reason to throw caution to the wind and just trust in God. nobody advises people to drive without a seat belt and just trust in God, or to just let God decide the best way to treat a snake bite. God gave us our brain for a reason.

If somebody wants their children closer together they are adults and are free to do as they please. But they should realize that they are ignoring a serious reason to use NFP and not advise other people to do the same.

This has been debated on another thread (the need for a certain spacing), if I can find the thread I will post it here for you, but there is all sorts of data out there, with all sorts of criteria, that comes to different conclusions (I think when you put them all together it would be you should wait anywhere from 6 months to up to 5 years before conceiving again). My point is, different women have different needs, and suggesting that one couple is being irresponsible and trying to tempt God in some way by leaving their spacing in His hands is wrong. There is a difference between saying prayerfully, we see no reasons why we absolutely need to avoid and we invite you Lord to bless us with children whenever You see fit, and saying, well, we know we should not have any more children now because it could kill mom, but we will continue participating in the marital embrace without caring if we are fertile or not, without trying to make use of the information we have to avoid conceiving, and you better take care of us God. The second one can be compared to getting a snake bite and not wanting to use the information we know to take care of it, rather expect God to perform some sort of miracle, the first one cannot be compared to it.

I know of many doctors who smoke and abuse prescription meds. Doctors take risks just like everybody else. Just because a doctor is willing to do something doesn’t make it risk free or smart.

I know of doctors who perform abortions and promote artificial birth control. That is irrelevant. All I was saying is I cannot imagine these specific doctors (and the only reason I mentioned they were doctors is to show they are not ignorant of the medical viewpoint), and all these other families, that are practicing Catholics, live out their faith, receive spiritual direction from good orthodox priests on a weekly basis, etc etc all being irresponsible people that are acting foolishly.

 

[gardenswithkids]

It isn’t random at all, the data shows that there is a significantly smaller risk for a miscarriage if pregnancies are spaced at least 2-3 years apart. Spacing is a serious enough reason to use NFP for that reason alone and nearly every woman will have to use some method of natural birth control during her child bearing years. There is no good reason to throw caution to the wind and just trust in God. nobody advises people to drive without a seat belt and just trust in God, or to just let God decide the best way to treat a snake bite. God gave us our brain for a reason.

If somebody wants their children closer together they are adults and are free to do as they please. But they should realize that they are ignoring a serious reason to use NFP and not advise other people to do the same…

Careful when giving out medical advice here. “Significanly smaller risk of miscarriage” does **not **mean the next carefully planned pregnancy will be carried to term, nor does it mean closer spaced pregnancies are always going to end in miscarriage. While postponing pregnancy a few years the couple also ages a few years; as women age, miscarriages and lower fertility becomes more common too.

I’m sure glad my mom didn’t listen to your “advice”. If she had, I wouldn’t be here. Anyone reading this with a sibling about two years older wouldn’t be here either. Same for anyone with a parent, grandparent or great-grandparent, etc. who had siblings two years older. Basically, there would probably be no one left to read your “advice”.

By the way, trusting God with family size and spacing is not “just throwing caution to the wind.” It’s very strange of you to equate close spaced pregnancies with riding without seatbelts (implying pregnancy = car accidents???) or snake bites. God gave you a brain–think about what you imply about pregnancy and children with those statements.

 

[samovila]

There is no good reason to throw caution to the wind and just trust in God./QUOTE]

Using NFP requires trust in God. We should be careful not to phrase it in a way that poses one against the other as in “Well I’m either going to use NFP or I’m going to throw caution to the wind and trust God.” It’s not an either-or scenario. Using NFP and trusting in God are one and the same.

 

[Tosk]

Careful when giving out medical advice here. “Significanly smaller risk of miscarriage” does **not **mean the next carefully planned pregnancy will be carried to term, nor does it mean closer spaced pregnancies are always going to end in miscarriage. While postponing pregnancy a few years the couple also ages a few years; as women age, miscarriages and lower fertility becomes more common too.

I’m sure glad my mom didn’t listen to your “advice”. If she had, I wouldn’t be here. Anyone reading this with a sibling about two years older wouldn’t be here either. Same for anyone with a parent, grandparent or great-grandparent, etc. who had siblings two years older. Basically, there would probably be no one left to read your “advice”.

By the way, trusting God with family size and spacing is not “just throwing caution to the wind.” It’s very strange of you to equate close spaced pregnancies with riding without seatbelts (implying pregnancy = car accidents???) or snake bites. God gave you a brain–think about what you imply about pregnancy and children with those statements.

Wouldn’t, “just trust in God and have your children as close together as you like” also be medical advice? All I am advising is listen to what your doctor tells you. You are the one saying, “what do they know? don’t worry, God will provide.”

Choosing not to space your kids is most definitely choosing to ignore health risks. A lot of people choose to ignore them and take a risk. It’s there prerogative. They can do as they please, but it isn’t a requirement and they certainly aren’t any more open to life than a couple who chooses to be more cautious.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

Wouldn’t, “just trust in God and have your children as close together as you like” also be medical advice? All I am advising is listen to what your doctor tells you. You are the one saying, “what do they know? don’t worry, God will provide.”

Choosing not to space your kids is most definitely choosing to ignore health risks. A lot of people choose to ignore them and take a risk. It’s there prerogative. They can do as they please, but it isn’t a requirement and they certainly aren’t any more open to life than a couple who chooses to be more cautious.

Being pregnant in itself can have all sorts of “health risks” for a woman, and the new baby too.

 

[Tosk]

All I am trying to say is that using NFP to space isn’t really something that is required, but it sure sure is smart. Just like nobody is required to eat healthy and exercise. It is just something smart to do.

 

[Tosk]

Being pregnant in itself can have all sorts of “health risks” for a woman, and the new baby too.

yes, so why not minimize them with the best medical care you can get? Also, why is health risks in scare quotes?

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

yes, so why not minimize them with the best medical care you can get? Also, why is health risks in scare quotes?

And a family that has not seen a need to use NFP can also minimize them by seeking the best medical care they can get…
My point was, like with everything else, each woman has different risks. For one woman, getting pregnant could be fatal, while for another, while there are always risks, it may be much less risky. The fact that there is a risk there does not mean the second woman should never get pregnant, that she isn’t being smart by being open to pregnancy.

ETA: I didn’t mean for the quotation marks to be considered scare quotes, I was trying to refer to the specific health risks you were talking about, thus quoting you. I apologize if it came across as snarky or something, looking back I can see how you could have perceived it with this tone and I am sorry, that would have not been a positive contribution to our “conversation” (lol I use quotations a lot).

 

[RedSoxWife]

I’ve never heard that a woman would need two to three years to recover from a pregnancy. I remember reading in a lot of the books on pregnancy that a woman usually needed one year to recover (and that was repeated in several different sources. I read all that I could when I was pregnant and finished book after book!).

Ecological Breastfeeding does space babies, but it has a lot of rules that you have to follow for it to be effective. I believe the best book on that I read was called Breastfeeding and Catholic Motherhood and the author of that book has another book about Ecological Breastfeeding and the rules to extend the delay to a return of fertility. They included not using pacifiers, which we did after we found my daughter could nurse for seven consecutive hours without a break.

My cycles started to come back after six months but are very long.

I just had to put my two cents in because two to three years seems very long to me… my daughter just turned one and I think any doctor would agree that I am completely recovered (and ready to start having more).

 

[Bluegoat]

Maybe something to think about would be what you would like to happen before you were to get pregnant again, from the point of view of your health, your new babies, and the baby who would be born.

If I would use myself as an example:
I would want to be sure any healing of my body that was required was finished.
If I had gained a lot of weight or had other health/fitness issues, I would want a chance to get that in order
I would want a chance to get my folic acid, iron levels, and similar things up.
I might be a bit concerned about ppd, since I had it with my first, so I would be inclined to wait until the period when that was likely an issue was past.
I would not want to wean current baby before a year at least, ideally two, per WHO recommendations.

As far as other things, if you are going to chart, why bother doing the temping stuff? Especially if you use ecological breastfeeding it’s likely not required. Also, using ecological breastfeeding has the advantage that when it stops working, it can be a good sign that your baby may not need you in quite the same demanding way.

To the poster who was just getting married - it could be worthwhile to learn to chart before you have a baby, and it wouldn’t take long. I found it much harder to learn after when my cycles suspended.

 

[BabyDoll4]

Thank you everyone for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I’m continuing this conversation with my husband and we really haven’t come to an agreement yet. It’s funny because the day I came home from the hospital I was ready to have another baby. I have a lot to think about.

 

[BabyDoll4]

Thank you to whom ever posted the LLLI website. Great site. I will see how the breastfeeding goes. I will probably re-evaluate in about a month or so. This is a whole new experience for me.

 

[hamburglar]

Thank you everyone for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I’m continuing this conversation with my husband and we really haven’t come to an agreement yet. It’s funny because the day I came home from the hospital I was ready to have another baby. I have a lot to think about.

Although it appears I may have started a firestorm in this thread, I just wanted to wish you and your husband the best of luck with your family.

 

[BabyDoll4]

Although it appears I may have started a firestorm in this thread, I just wanted to wish you and your husband the best of luck with your family.

That’s quite alright because it was all very good information and opinions for me to consider.

 

[iluvmybabies]

I gave birth to our fourth child Veronica two weeks ago. So for the past two weeks I have been really struggling with how to proceed with our NFP. My biggest question I always come to is would it be irresponsible to not chart at all and go as God leads us? I don’t have any medical issues that really require me to chart. So basically I don’t need to avoid for health reasons. Financially we are not great, but we’ve always been able to put food on the table and pay our bills.

I’ve tried to discuss it with my husband, but he pretty much gives me the same answer, “What ever you want dear.” And those really are his words.

Now to be honest with you, I don’t want to chart. I find it to be a hassle and I have a hard time staying committed to it. And then trying to throw temping in there, well, I just don’t see it happening.

Thanks for listening, I needed to throw out some thoughts.

HONEY GOD Bless you and your beautiful family! And especially your husband!!! Now-a-days many hubbies are hoping for their wives to stop giving them such wonderful blessings, bcps and other forms of contraceptions are in our lives more than NFP… If you feel you need to space your children just a little more, then try to stay committed, you will be happier and give the space necessary for your well being and children’s well being even more than if you don’t… You will feel a lot better and more at peace than if you just let it go and are a bit stressed over another child and raising 4 youngings as well…

If you know you can handle it without stressing or getting depressed over so much responsibility all at once, believe me, if I could hon I would have 10 kids or as many as GOD would give me! I love large families…but I made the mistake of keeping my husband happy and he wanted no children so every time I got pg he would nag at me for not taking the shot, bcp, etc…It was frustrating wanting children and GOD’s blessing that I was unable to share that love and want with my then husband…Now I was told I was infertile and couldn’t have any more children…The only reason I would use NFP would be to space the children out, give my body a little rest and have more time with the other children as well, remember they all need a lot of attention no matter how old they are…I have 3 and the oldest demands as much attention as the youngest…And it’s a challenge with an 11, 9 and 6 year old I can only imagine with a newborn in the picture as well…Very stressful…And mommy does deserve a break too! Learning that myself!! LOL I have more grays than my mother, seriously and I look older than her too! lol

Anyhow but if you feel the more the merrier then honey let GOD’s wonderful blessings be and congratulations again!

God bless, take care!

 

[budgie2]

I gave birth to our fourth child Veronica two weeks ago. So for the past two weeks I have been really struggling with how to proceed with our NFP. My biggest question I always come to is would it be irresponsible to not chart at all and go as God leads us? I don’t have any medical issues that really require me to chart. So basically I don’t need to avoid for health reasons. Financially we are not great, but we’ve always been able to put food on the table and pay our bills.

I’ve tried to discuss it with my husband, but he pretty much gives me the same answer, “What ever you want dear.” And those really are his words.

Now to be honest with you, I don’t want to chart. I find it to be a hassle and I have a hard time staying committed to it. And then trying to throw temping in there, well, I just don’t see it happening.

Thanks for listening, I needed to throw out some thoughts.

I’ve never charted in my life although I’ve used a contraceptive prior to marriage. I believe if God plans your children then you don’t need to plan them yourself. That is a higher way to live and is more like Mary. Mary accepted children when God chose. God will listen to your prayers, that’s my belief.

Here are some prayers to help you:
Lord I accept your will for my family.
Lord I accept your family plan.

 

[BabyDoll4]

Here are some prayers to help you:
Lord I accept your will for my family.
Lord I accept your family plan.

I like those a lot.

As life moves on, spacing is becoming an important factor. I’m having a rough time with my 15 mo old; especially when I am nursing the baby.