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RockyBaileys
Guest
What does she mean by why do we all have different churches and why cant we all be one?
The catholic church is one church is it not?
The catholic church is one church is it not?
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Petersmate
Guest
I might be wrong but I suspect she is going through conversion which is a very scarey and confusing thing to go through as I understand.
She was actually talking about all the different denominations why are there all the different denominations why can’t we all be one. She is certainly going through something and I just have to pray and be patient with her and the reason why I’m not really sure how to respond.
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Petersmate
Guest
Well a protestant who doesn’t understand apostolic succession and the consecration at mass is going to make this kind of statement.
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Petersmate
Guest
Yes we Aussies are, thanks for reminding me about that, I’m sure we can seem rude at times but we’re not its just the way we are.
I’m going to have to be a little subtle with her I think.
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rcwitness
Guest
Hey Pete,
I noticed the picture of Madonna and Child in your profile. It has the Southern Cross in the sky. I only saw that for the first time recenlty when I moved to Brasil from Wisconsin USA. I heard your flag uses 33 points in the stars in the constellation to signify Jesus’ 33 yrs on earth.
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Petersmate
Guest
If that’s true then you’ve taught me something.
In the top right hand corner of the flag is the “Union Jack” which is the flag of the United Kingdom symbolizing that Australia is a British Colony"
Meaning of the Union Jack - the national flag of the United Kingdom, formed by combining the red and white crosses of St George, St Andrew, and St Patrick and retaining the blue ground of the flag of St Andrew.
The stars of course are the 'Southern Cross" as you said. Found in the skies of the Southern Hemisphere.
The big star under the Union Jack is the Federation Star -is a seven-pointed star symbolising the Federation of Australia which came into force on 1 January 1901.
http://forums.catholic-questions.org/picture.php?albumid=1965&pictureid=17134
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sallybutler
Guest
You probably can’t say this to her, but that would be like eating tofu steak instead of a filet mignon. One is a very pale imitation of the other, without any of the same ingredients.
You might try explaining the differences. Perhaps her heart is ready to hear.
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MacQ
Guest
I would strongly advise AGAINST the “idolatry” reference. You would be insulting your friend (calling her an idolator), and it would bespeak some ignorance of her tradition…
Protestant communion is NOT idolatry. It is a symbolic sharing of bread and wine/juice to commemorate the Last Supper. They do not pretend that it is consecrated or that it becomes body and blood, and therefore, they are not worshipping either species.
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MacQ
Guest
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MacQ
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Mystophilus
Guest
I would suggest being tactfully open and honest about it: “My church views the Eucharist as a sacrament, a mystical rite which can only be performed by a duly-ordained priest and which can only be received by someone in communion with our beliefs. This is a sacred ceremony. As a result, we do not engage in a symbolic version.”
You sound like you can get that across to her without disparaging her or what she holds sacred, but it might take a little while, because the very idea of excluding people from communion is a direct contradiction of the inclusiveness which most modern Protestants see as being the purpose of that activity.
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robwar
Guest
She is after you to convert you. Tell her that her communion is not valid because it isn’t the body and blood of Christ and that you are not interested in going. I think you need to let her know that she maybe not agree with you or your Catholic faith but she needs to back off and respect you and leave it alone. I wouldn’t worry about offending her because she doesn’t seem to worry about offending you in calling the Catholic church silly and unbiblical. Sometimes we need to risk drawing a line in the sand and telling others that thanks but no thanks and leave me alone. That might speak volumns to her pushiness.
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QNDNNDQDCE
Guest
"See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.
Moreover, it is in accordance with reason that we should return to soberness [of conduct], and, while yet we have opportunity, exercise repentance towards God. It is well to reverence both God and the bishop. He who honours the bishop has been honoured by God; he who does anything without the knowledge of the bishop, does [in reality] serve the devil."
(St. Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Smyrnaeans, Chapters 8, 9)
Moreover, it is in accordance with reason that we should return to soberness [of conduct], and, while yet we have opportunity, exercise repentance towards God. It is well to reverence both God and the bishop. He who honours the bishop has been honoured by God; he who does anything without the knowledge of the bishop, does [in reality] serve the devil."
(St. Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Smyrnaeans, Chapters 8, 9)
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MacQ
Guest
I would just say that it’s ok to attend other churches with friends if you want to. You would refrain from taking communion, that’s all. Just as we expect them to do in our Church…
I would definitely refrain from telling my friends their communion is not “valid”.
It is a different thing for them…they are commemorating the supper in a symbolic way.
There is no harm in that. It’s like a seder.
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robwar
Guest
This so called friend looks to rather anti-Catholic and sounds like she is trying to save op.
Likewise, attending other religious services with someone from the description that is a “bible evangelical” here is a risky adventure. It is not recommended for Catholics to attend other religious services. Look through some of the questions and answers from CAF apologist here. This is likewise true if this is a communion service which usually is only done once a month in these types of Churches. She is bringing up communion to Op, questioning Catholic teaching and then is trying to invite him to attend one of their communion services. Looks like a set up to me and the best way to avoid a trap is stay out of it.
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justthetruth
Guest
you have explain to your friend why its ok to eat human flesh and drink human blood by using scripture chapter and verse to prove your point of belief. show your friend in scripture where god has made exception to his strong prohibition against eating these things.
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CarmelFriend
Guest
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Not sure what you mean. I suggested keeping a friendship intact.
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IgnatianPhilo
Guest
What helped me understand the catholic, by that I mean position of all the ancient churches, was reading Ignatius of Antioch and seeing a teaching that the Eucharist was understood as not mere symbol but the real body and blood of Christ, from which gnostics abstained because they could not partake in something they thought to be a lie.
Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God… They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the Flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, Flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes. —Letter to the Smyrnaeans, Ch 6
If in the mind of someone like your friend who insists we must understand it figuratively, the option appears to be a legitimate ancient one (considering Ignatius was an old man by the time he wrote this letter in the early 2nd century) the question must be answered on her part. This man who marched to Rome and very clearly believed in Christ resurrected and who was God for us, how could he get such a teaching so wrong so early? How could this error persist? Not only persist but become the dominant understanding, that the Eucharist is truly the body and blood of Christ, not mere bread and wine any more.
A question evangelical protestantism has to face is the early church and why is it so radically different from their vision of Christianity which lacks Eucharist, lacks liturgy in any proper sense or even knowledge of the bible.
Most protestants I’ve come across do not see this as a problem however and tend to ignore it, but I for one find it a compelling reason to at least re examine the bible and consider the the modern protestant dogmatic approach as at least possibly flawed. Merely arguing from the bible is not enough.
Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God… They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the Flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, Flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes. —Letter to the Smyrnaeans, Ch 6
If in the mind of someone like your friend who insists we must understand it figuratively, the option appears to be a legitimate ancient one (considering Ignatius was an old man by the time he wrote this letter in the early 2nd century) the question must be answered on her part. This man who marched to Rome and very clearly believed in Christ resurrected and who was God for us, how could he get such a teaching so wrong so early? How could this error persist? Not only persist but become the dominant understanding, that the Eucharist is truly the body and blood of Christ, not mere bread and wine any more.
A question evangelical protestantism has to face is the early church and why is it so radically different from their vision of Christianity which lacks Eucharist, lacks liturgy in any proper sense or even knowledge of the bible.
Most protestants I’ve come across do not see this as a problem however and tend to ignore it, but I for one find it a compelling reason to at least re examine the bible and consider the the modern protestant dogmatic approach as at least possibly flawed. Merely arguing from the bible is not enough.
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CarmelFriend
Guest
Is there a “like” button here???
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MacQ
Guest
You may be right.
Whether the OP attends a service with her friend or not is one thing…my main point was that if she declines, she should do it politely and not disparage someone else’s faith by saying their communion isn’t “valid”.
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