Not sure how to solve this problem

[ForeverHis8827]

I suggest that you go to confession and tell the priest that you are struggling with this. We must never believe that our sins are greater than His mercy. I pray that you will find peace and that you accept His love for you. Let go, and let Him lead you.

 

[Student09]

Maybe God is calling you to work for the reunification of the Orthodox churches with Rome.

Can you say WHY you think you should be Orthodox? It has to be something better than that you feel you should be. God made us rational beings. This is the sort of situation in which reason can be helpful.

 

[James224]

Unfortunately, because of all this fear, I stopped receiving Communion, though I continued to attend Mass, pray, and go to Confession. The fear went away but was replaced by a very strong impression that I should be Orthodox. Lately, at times, I even feel more peace about being Orthodox than I do about being Catholic, and I don’t know why. I often ‘experience’ the Orthodox liturgy in my imagination and feel like that’s where I should be. However, when I feel really close to Christ, as I know Him, I feel strongly that I should be Catholic. It almost seems like there are two “voices” that are speaking to me, and both seem like Christ, but are different… and I’m at a total loss what to believe right now. I don’t know what I think about the Papacy anymore. I just feel so lost. There have been times when I felt SO clearly that I need to be Orthodox, but I also felt this way about things that were false, like that I committed the unforgiveable sin. I’m not sure what God’s ‘voice’ is supposed to be like. There was a time when I received Communion and felt like I should be Catholic afterwards, but I had other experiences where something was telling me that the Eucharist in the Catholic Church isn’t real, that it’s only the Orthodox Church, and that I need to be Orthodox, etc. I don’t get it… in the past, this ‘voice’ that told me to be EO, was very harsh, but recently it became gentle and peaceful. That confuses me, because I’m not sure if it’s God and I just became more open to His inspirations, or if it’s not God. I’m afraid to think it’s not God because I don’t want to call something from the Holy Spirit demonic. I feel really trapped

A while ago, I was talking to someone about all this and explaining how at times, I’m not even sure which is the real Christ… and I said out loud, “if Christ is as I experience Him in the Orthodox church, then all my relationship with HIm in the Catholic Church has been not from Him, but from a demon”. When I said this, I felt very deeply that I had sinned and hurt Jesus with these words. The way I knew Him in the Catholic Church was so beautiful because it always glorified His mercy. I knew this, and I essentially said that the merciful Jesus I know, is actually a demon. I don’t know how to forgive myself for these words. I have confessed them, and the priest told me that I could be forgiven for this, but I just can’t move on. I feel like I offended God in the worst possible way, because His mercy is one of His greatest attributes, if not the greatest. I’m afraid that He’s given up on me now and is letting me go on to being Orthodox, because I don’t know Him anymore. But other times, I’m afraid of the opposite - that He is actually calling me to the Orthodox church, and I’m rejecting Him. All this fear is too much for me. I don’t know how to discern the truth.

Sorry this is so long… and I know I’ve written similar threads in the past. I just really feel at a loss now. It’s been several months… I miss the Eucharist greatly. I was just wondering if anyone has any advice specifically on what I could do to discern God’s will. Whenever I think about Heaven and hell, I feel so confused, and almost certain I’m not in a state of grace in the moment, but I don’t know how to get back to God.

Please don’t tell me to see a counsellor, psychologist, etc, because they wouldn’t be able to answer my questions. My questions are about spiritual things. I’m posting here because I really don’t know where to go with this question…I’ve tried to deal with it alone for a few months now, and I’m not progressing anywhere so I thought, maybe someone has any advice. I would also really appreciate prayers.

thank you!!

I will pray for you. I know you are going through a lot. I could be wrong but it seems you may be, what the church calls, scrupulous. Scrupulosity means that you think you are sinning all the time. Martin Luther was like that. It’s nothing to be ashamed of but it’s something you have to deal with in the right way. All these voices you hear are temptations, not sin. Part of living the spiritual life is to seek spritual direction from ONE person, like a Catholic Priest, and know that God speaks through him to you. It’s important that you don’t bounce around from one priest to another. You must practice obedience to the priest in what he says. This is VERY spiritual and it’s in scripture. “Obey your prelates” as in Heb 13:7 & 13:17. They may give advice that may seem too simple sometimes or the priest, at times, may seem a little disinterested but, remember, it comes from God. If you are faithful, God will bless you in all this. I remember obeying my priest in spiritual matters and what he said once was very distasteful but I did it and I was blessed tremendously! You can’t diagnose yourself in spiritual matters fully and, therefore, you really, really need to get some spiritual direction.

 

[Bluegoat]

I think you need to make a proper appointment to spend time talking to the priest. Going to confession is not enough - you might make a confession when you have your appointment, but you need time for an in depth talk.

Your big sin that you are worried about is causing you much more trouble than it should. You are sinning more by holding on to it and not believing that God has forgiven it than by having the thought in the first place. Honestly, if you immediatly didn’t consent to the thought once you’d had it, I don’t know that it was a sin at all - we are not responsible for thoughts which come unbidden and which we reject.

Your idea that your thought somehow hurt Jesus seems to be a problem for you, and I think it may be indicative of a problem in your spiritual life. You cannot hurt God in that way. Do you remember that Christ was tempted in the wilderness? That he thought, because he was human and subject to such things, of many sinful things? And yet he did not sin, because he rejected those ideas. Thinking you are unforgivable is a far worse sin, a sin of pride. You need to get control of your spiritual life, your imagination and a concentration on these fanciful images is hurting you. You need to be careful about this kind of imaginative prayer.

The posters who said you need a spiritual director are correct - a priest or someone else recommended by your priest who can talk to you at length on a regular basis, and help you direct your prayer life. You need to place yourself under this person’s authority, because your own judgement is compromised.

And finally, you need to see your doctor about anxiety or OCD, and maybe talk to the priest about scrupulosity. I know that many people have told you to do these things in other posts in the past. Have you ever gone to see your priest - not just for confession, but for a long talk - like so many have suggested? Or your doctor?

 

[James224]

Hi Monica,

I thought I would share a story in my life and how I was blessed by practicing Obedience. In 1987, I had been studying and meditating on the Summa of St. Thomas for 5 years and suddenly, I had a vision. I’m a Thomist so I’m not the kind to make up things and say I had a vision when I didn’t. I don’t usually trust it when others tell me things like that. I haven’t had one before or since that time. From what I learned about it, I don’t think it was a good vision but I still don’t know and I don’t know why. It scared me and I went to my priest for direction. He almost sounded flippantly and told me to put down the Summa and get out a piece of paper and pen and meditate on the Lord. That’s basically all he said! I left kind of angry but by the time I got home I decided I would be obedient and do what he said. When I practiced this, all of a sudden I began to see in my mind all kinds of truths of the faith in ways I hadn’t seen before. I also had a profound peace. I know this is a simple example but I would say that my whole spiritual life has been blessed all along by obedience. I love apologetics and every time while I was learning, I would say to myself: “This doctrine I don’t understand but, in obedience, I accept is as true and now, I going to see and learn why it’s true.” That’s how I have stayed on the right path in my learning and have deepened my faith over the years. If you want the truth, obedience is a big part of doing God’s Will.

 

[Monica4316]

Even if He wanted to, God couldn’t punish you or hold what you said against you, because it seems like you have a monopoly on self-torture.

I dont know, what do you mean?

I am a new revert to the catholic church, having been involved in evangelical and other churches for many years. I am having similar feelings as yours–confusion, doubt, questions, stress, anxiety, etc. even though mine aren’t about the exact same things (the catholic vs. orthodox church). All that is to say, I can relate to what you’re going through at some level. I feel like I’m on a roller coaster sometimes.

I don’t really have the answer to tell you, but this is what I decided to do just yesterday. When I feel that anxiety, doubt, whatever I’m just going to pray “Jesus I trust in you”. I get tied up in trying to figure everything out and am anxious because I think I don’t belong in the catholic church, X doesn’t make sense to me, what if X is wrong and I go to hell, does God really forgive me, etc. – so this may help. I’m sure I won’t always be able to do this, but I’m going to try for today anyway.

I do encourage you to continue to access the sacraments though. We receive graces when we do so and we need that to help us get through these struggles. Jesus understands our struggles and he is there to meet us in the Eucharist.

I have heard that it is not unusual to go through this kind of struggle when you come into the church. I don’t know if it’s Satan or what, but it just helps some to know that others have gone through this too–it takes time for this major change in our lives to take hold and to figure out how to live.

Also, I sometimes renounce Satan, by saying “In the name of Jesus, I renounce this spirit of anxiety” and ask Jesus to fill me with trust. That may be wrong (someone here will tell me if so) but I figure it can’t hurt! I don’t know if any of this helps, but I do want to encourage you not to give up. Also, I’m glad you posted as it helps me also to hear what other people say and this struggle is sometimes hard to put into words.

I’m sorry youre going through this too I really like the prayer “Jesus I trust in You”. I really want to learn to trust Him more because I think one of my weaknesses is distrust and the enemy knows that and uses it. Thanks for your post.

Monica,
One more thought: I REALLY encourage you to go to confession and tell the priest your doubts about being forgiven. I think it would really help.

I will

I suggest that you go to confession and tell the priest that you are struggling with this. We must never believe that our sins are greater than His mercy. I pray that you will find peace and that you accept His love for you. Let go, and let Him lead you.

Thank you

Maybe God is calling you to work for the reunification of the Orthodox churches with Rome.

Maybe!

Can you say WHY you think you should be Orthodox? It has to be something better than that you feel you should be. God made us rational beings. This is the sort of situation in which reason can be helpful.

I see what you mean… it’s just that I find reason confusing because I don’t want to rely on myself or my own understanding either. I mean, whenever I read history, I can see both views: the Catholic and the Orthodox. I used to only see the Catholic. I still believe in the Catholic view. But all these experiences have altered the way I see things and that’s very scary, I don’t know how to get back, or what God wants. I guess what I really need to do is trust God, pray, talk to a priest… I’m planning on going to Adoration tomorrow, and speaking with a priest soon.

I will pray for you. I know you are going through a lot. I could be wrong but it seems you may be, what the church calls, scrupulous. Scrupulosity means that you think you are sinning all the time.

I dont know… I know that I have dealt with scrupulosity. But I don’t feel that I am sinning all the time. I notice many imperfections in myself but I can see a difference when they’re sins and when they are not chosen imperfections. It helps me to speak to a priest in Confession and get guidance on that.

 

[Monica4316]

Martin Luther was like that. It’s nothing to be ashamed of but it’s something you have to deal with in the right way. All these voices you hear are temptations, not sin. Part of living the spiritual life is to seek spritual direction from ONE person, like a Catholic Priest, and know that God speaks through him to you. It’s important that you don’t bounce around from one priest to another. You must practice obedience to the priest in what he says. This is VERY spiritual and it’s in scripture. “Obey your prelates” as in Heb 13:7 & 13:17. They may give advice that may seem too simple sometimes or the priest, at times, may seem a little disinterested but, remember, it comes from God. If you are faithful, God will bless you in all this. I remember obeying my priest in spiritual matters and what he said once was very distasteful but I did it and I was blessed tremendously! You can’t diagnose yourself in spiritual matters fully and, therefore, you really, really need to get some spiritual direction.

I really do want a spiritual director… I’m not sure how to find one or what to look for in a director. I just know that I want him to be a priest cause I’d want him to also be my confessor.

I think you need to make a proper appointment to spend time talking to the priest. Going to confession is not enough - you might make a confession when you have your appointment, but you need time for an in depth talk.

Your big sin that you are worried about is causing you much more trouble than it should. You are sinning more by holding on to it and not believing that God has forgiven it than by having the thought in the first place. Honestly, if you immediatly didn’t consent to the thought once you’d had it, I don’t know that it was a sin at all - we are not responsible for thoughts which come unbidden and which we reject.

Unfortunately I did consent, because it wasn’t just a thought, it was something I said - willingly, from my own choice. That’s what really scares me about it. I do want to believe in God’s mercy.

Your idea that your thought somehow hurt Jesus seems to be a problem for you, and I think it may be indicative of a problem in your spiritual life. You cannot hurt God in that way. Do you remember that Christ was tempted in the wilderness? That he thought, because he was human and subject to such things, of many sinful things? And yet he did not sin, because he rejected those ideas. Thinking you are unforgivable is a far worse sin, a sin of pride. You need to get control of your spiritual life, your imagination and a concentration on these fanciful images is hurting you. You need to be careful about this kind of imaginative prayer.

I agree about imagination… both Catholic and Orthodox theologians and Saints also seem to say the same thing… about the temptation, I did consent to it unfortunately, but I repented right afterwards.

 

[Monica4316]

The posters who said you need a spiritual director are correct - a priest or someone else recommended by your priest who can talk to you at length on a regular basis, and help you direct your prayer life. You need to place yourself under this person’s authority, because your own judgement is compromised.

I do want to get a spiritual director…

And finally, you need to see your doctor about anxiety or OCD, and maybe talk to the priest about scrupulosity. I know that many people have told you to do these things in other posts in the past. Have you ever gone to see your priest - not just for confession, but for a long talk - like so many have suggested? Or your doctor?

I have spoken to priests. Just not about this particular issue because it is new. I spoke to a priest about other issues I’ve dealt with in the past, but they aren’t there anymore. I don’t feel anxiety in other parts of my life beyond what is normal… neither do I have any symptoms of OCD in any other parts of my life… even in this I don’t see much OCD to be honest. I know the symptoms because my degree is in psychology. I feel sadness and anxiety because I am confused about which church I should be in and I did something that I really regret and feel guilt about… people can be in this situation and not have OCD.

Hi Monica,

I thought I would share a story in my life and how I was blessed by practicing Obedience. In 1987, I had been studying and meditating on the Summa of St. Thomas for 5 years and suddenly, I had a vision. I’m a Thomist so I’m not the kind to make up things and say I had a vision when I didn’t. I don’t usually trust it when others tell me things like that. I haven’t had one before or since that time. From what I learned about it, I don’t think it was a good vision but I still don’t know and I don’t know why. It scared me and I went to my priest for direction. He almost sounded flippantly and told me to put down the Summa and get out a piece of paper and pen and meditate on the Lord. That’s basically all he said! I left kind of angry but by the time I got home I decided I would be obedient and do what he said. When I practiced this, all of a sudden I began to see in my mind all kinds of truths of the faith in ways I hadn’t seen before. I also had a profound peace. I know this is a simple example but I would say that my whole spiritual life has been blessed all along by obedience. I love apologetics and every time while I was learning, I would say to myself: “This doctrine I don’t understand but, in obedience, I accept is as true and now, I going to see and learn why it’s true.” That’s how I have stayed on the right path in my learning and have deepened my faith over the years. If you want the truth, obedience is a big part of doing God’s Will.

Thanks for sharing that I have seen the importance of obedience in my life also… one time my priest gave me a penance that I didn’t really know would help me, and I was going through some things at the time as well. I came home and did my penance and was blessed incredibly through it. I think that obedience is very important… I really want to find a good spiritual director, I’m just not sure what to look for. I’ll try to talk in some priests in my area.

God bless

 

[Sandalwood]

just wanted you to know that I am still praying for you Monica.

 

[Monica4316]

Thank you :hug1: