Not the same God?

[PRmerger]

Methodists accept the Trinity. Muslims reject the Trinity. The Eucharist is a completely different issue all together.

I can see that you have an inability to understand analogies.

If you can understand this:

Christmas tree : ornament :: Earlobe : earring
without saying, “But a Christmas tree is NOT an earlobe! An earlobe is totally different!”

Then you ought to be able to understand this:

Methodists reject the Eucharist but still believe in the same Jesus that we do.
Muslims reject the Trinity but still believe in the same God that we do.

 

[illusion_buster]

Apples and oranges.
Muslims do not have Faith.

Dominus Iesus:

20 For this reason, the distinction between theological faith and belief in the other religions, must be firmly held. If faith is the acceptance in grace of revealed truth, which “makes it possible to penetrate the mystery in a way that allows us to understand it coherently”, 21 then belief, in the other religions, is that sum of experience and thought that constitutes the human treasury of wisdom and religious aspiration, which man in his search for truth has conceived and acted upon in his relationship to God and the Absolute. 22 This distinction is not always borne in mind in current theological reflection. Thus, theological faith (the acceptance of the truth revealed by the One and Triune God) is often identified with belief in other religions, which is religious experience still in search of the absolute truth and still lacking assent to God who reveals himself. This is one of the reasons why the differences between Christianity and the other religions tend to be reduced at times to the point of disappearance.

Jam!!! this is what I would have said to PRmerger if I wasn’'t such a unsatisfactory & confusing comunicator". This is my understanding of the parable of the Good Shepherd.

 

[jam070406]

I can see that you have an inability to understand analogies.

If you can understand this:

Christmas tree : ornament :: Earlobe : earring
without saying, “But a Christmas tree is NOT an earlobe! An earlobe is totally different!”

Then you ought to be able to understand this:

Methodists reject the Eucharist but still believe in the same Jesus that we do.
Muslims reject the Trinity but still believe in the same God that we do.

Really?! Muslims believe in the Trinity? No!

 

[PRmerger]

Really?! Muslims believe in the Trinity? No!

'zactly. They reject the Trinity but still believe in One God. They get a for that.

Just like Methodists reject the Eucharist but still believe in Christ. They get a for that.

 

[rinnie]

Methodists have partial Truth. Muslims have zero, they reject Jesus is God.

Really? So then you are saying they together with us they adore the One Merciful God mankinds judge on the last day and that is Zero truth?

So you again deny that there is One Merciful God?

 

[jam070406]

'zactly. They reject the Trinity but still believe in One God. They get a for that.

Just like Methodists reject the Eucharist but still believe in Christ. They get a for that.

Yes, monotheism. NOT the one true God. Which the Church teaches is revealed in the Trinity by the infusion of grace with the assent of will to Divine revelation.

 

[jam070406]

Really? So then you are saying they together with us they adore the One Merciful God mankinds judge on the last day and that is Zero truth?

So you again deny that there is One Merciful God?

Where did I deny the One Merciful God?? His mercy comes to us through the death of Jesus on the cross. It is the Muslims who deny Him!

 

[PRmerger]

I can see you have a sense of humor at least…It is my experience that right brained people seem to understand me perfectly while left brained people think I’m speaking a different language. I’ts possible that forum correspondence is dominated by left brained people as such types enjoy facts and the arguments that support them. Right brained people like to look between the lines and see what isn’t visable. I do not take your use of ‘absurd’ personally…nor the implication that I am an unsatisfactory communicator.

Sure. I don’t disagree that most people on the CAFs are left brained. But to say that I can’t understand your arguments because you’re right brained and I’m left brained (I think I wrote it backwards inadvertently on my initial post) is ree-DAHNK-u-lous.

I certainly have had many conversations with lots of opposite-sided brained people on the forum and can follow the discourse quite easily.

I still have no idea what your stance is!

 

[PRmerger]

Where did I deny the One Merciful God?? His mercy comes to us through the death of Jesus on the cross. It is the Muslims who deny Him!

And the Methodists deny the Eucharist.

So are you willing to say that Methodists don’t worship the true Christ?

 

[rinnie]

Where did I deny the One Merciful God?? His mercy comes to us through the death of Jesus on the cross. It is the Muslims who deny Him!

Simple you said the Muslims have ZERO truth. So if they adore the One Merciful God how can they have zero truth?

Of course his mercy comes to US from Jesus Christ. But what does that have to do with muslims who have not had the true mystery of the Trinity revealed to them? Because they have not had the Grace and Gospel given to them, it makes the truth that they do have given to them False?

 

[rinnie]

And the Methodists deny the Eucharist.

So are you willing to say that Methodists don’t worship the true Christ?

 

[PRmerger]

Yes, monotheism.

Good!

Which the Church teaches is revealed in the Trinity by the infusion of grace with the assent of will to Divine revelation.

Right. They don’t believe in the Trinity. They’re wrong here.

But they get it right when they profess that God created everything.
And they get it right when the profess that God is merciful.
And they get it right when they say that divorce is wrong.
And they get it right when they say that abortion is wrong.
And they get it right when they say that homosexuality is wrong.

 

[jam070406]

And the Methodists deny the Eucharist.

So are you willing to say that Methodists don’t worship the true Christ?

No. Methodists believe Divinely revealed Truth from the Bible, which came through Christ and His Church. They reject sacred Tradition. They have been infused with grace from baptism.
Muslims reject Divinely revealed Truth and do not even have the gift of Faith. It is why the Church states they must be evangelized.

 

[illusion_buster]

No, illusion buster. That’s YOUR claim. YOU believe that the gospel message may have been tampered with.

I don’t think you caught on to what I ment. This is an example of what I mean. The Lord holds a passover meal at which He breaks bread and says.etc etc etc. This simple shared meal that He said to repeat in memory of Him DEVELOPED into the mass. The mass bares little resemblence to the original. Much has been ADDED. Again, there is nothing wrong with what was added but it was ADDED. I understand the reasons:- the formalization of such to support crowds.

 

[jam070406]

Good!

Right. They don’t believe in the Trinity. They’re wrong here.

But they get it right when they profess that God created everything.
And they get it right when the profess that God is merciful.
And they get it right when they say that divorce is wrong.
And they get it right when they say that abortion is wrong.
And they get it right when they say that homosexuality is wrong.

Really? So are they right that the “Creator” will reward them with carnal lust in the afterlife?
Is God’s mercy on those that commit honor killings to preserve the Islamic reputation of the family?
Do they get it right when women are killed for infidelity?
Do they get it right for putting homosexuals to death?
Do they get it right by spreading religion by the sword or killing apostates?

 

[PRmerger]

Really?

Yes, really! They got it right with those things. Don’t you think so, too, jam?

So are they right that the “Creator” will reward them with carnal lust in the afterlife?
Is God’s mercy on those that commit honor killings to preserve the Islamic reputation of the family?
Do they get it right when women are killed for infidelity?
Do they get it right for putting homosexuals to death?
Do they get it right by spreading religion by the sword or killing apostates?

Nope. They’re absolutely WRONG on those points!

Just like they’re wrong for rejecting the Trinity.

 

[Mickey]

They reject the Trinity but still believe in One God.

That doesn’t make sense. The one true God is the Trinitarian God. If you reject the Holy Trinity, you are not believing in the one true God.

 

[PRmerger]

It is why the Church states they must be evangelized.

Well, of course they need to be evangelized, jam.

But saying that they worship the One True God is a good starting point, no?

It puts us paces ahead of evangelizing the atheist, the Buddhist, the Hindu, the pantheist, the Vannic pagan, eh?

 

[illusion_buster]

Muslims willfully reject the Trinity and therefore do not worship the one true God.

I don’t see how this can be the right assumption… Muslims seem more 1 dimensional in thought (black & white). The concept of the Trinity (3 persons in one) is to them you declaring there is 3 gods. This they can’t accept. When Christians say the Trinity ( Father Son & Holy Spirit) we are not stating there are 3 gods. We are saying the is only ONE God. That is what Muslims say.‘There is only ONE God’. We AGREE there IS only ONE God…But Christians have a 3 dimensional understanding of God. Still the same ONE God. Muslems just don’t get it…That’s all.

 

[PRmerger]

That doesn’t make sense. The one true God is the Trinitarian God. If you reject the Holy Trinity, you are not believing in the one true God.

Well, you’re not rejecting the understanding that there’s One God, that He is the Creator of all, that He is all merciful…and to the degree that you proclaim those truths is the degree that you are consonant with the Christian faith.

I ask you this, Mickey: would you feel comfortable going to a Christian forum and proclaiming that anyone who does not believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist is not worshiping the True Christ? If the Eucharist is Jesus, and they reject the Eucharist, aren’t they rejecting Christ?

Or do you understand that while they may not have the fullness of Truth and a complete Christology, they are indeed worshipping the same Christ that the Orthodox do?