Not the same God?

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Mickey said:
Whoa! So God the Creator is not the Trinitarian God in the Catholic Mass?!? This is disturbing news to me. :eek:
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The lengths that have gone to defend Islam is astonishing. We’ve come to a point where the Holy Spirit and Jesus are left out of the equation, regarding Mass, to appease Islam. This is the relativism Pope Benedict warns about.
 
Mickey said:
I thought we were discussing Muslims? Most protestants consciously worship the Triune God. Muslims don’t.
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We are looking at the bigger picture here and making a point that you are inconsistent.

If you can accept that Methodists, who reject the Eucharist, still worship the same Christ, (they just are lacking the fullness of Christology) then you ought to (if you’re being consistent) be able to accept that Muslims, who reject the Trinity, still worship the same God (they are just lacking the fullness of Theology).
 
Mickey said:
Whoa! So God the Creator is not the Trinitarian God in the Catholic Mass?!? This is disturbing news to me. :eek:
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Who ever said that? Why would you say that God the Creator is not the Trintarian God in the Catholic Mass? The Church does not teach this.

Why do you say because the Church accepts the One true God the Creator of heaven and Earth, it means they reject him as the Trinitarian God?
 
PRmerger said:
We are looking at the bigger picture here and making a point that you are inconsistent.

If you can accept that Methodists, who reject the Eucharist, still worship the same Christ, (they just are lacking the fullness of Christology) then you ought to (if you’re being consistent) be able to accept that Muslims, who reject the Trinity, still worship the same God (they are just lacking the fullness of Theology).
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False analogy. Mormons believe made up stuff about Jesus and have invalid baptism. We say they don’t know the real Jesus and are not Christian.
Much akin to Muslims who don’t know the one true God.
 
jam070406 said:
The lengths that have gone to defend Islam is astonishing.
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We only defend Islam in the same way that our Catechism does. 🤷

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

We share a bond with them and I embrace that bond.
 
Read the catechism and it becomes pretty clear. There are many religions where peope make an honest attempt to know and understand God. Humanity by nature seeks to know God and know about him. To the extent that what muslims believe about Allah is true, they are worshipping the same God we are (and that is a substantial portion of Islamic belief). But when the erroneous things they ascribe to Allah are not true of God, they worship a false idol. And christians do this too. Perhaps no christian in history has ever personally been totally free of doctrinal error about the nature of God. God is not inscrutable (as the muslims claim), He is divine. There is a key difference between being incomprehensible and beyond beyond complete comprehension.

Christians did not invent or ‘figure out’ God, He revealed Himself to us in the person of Christ and to a lesser extent in the prophets that came before. Muhammed made claims about God that simply aren’t fully compatible with what Christ revealed. Jesus spoke of Father, Son and Holy Spirt, a Trinity of persons. Muslims reject that and say that Jesus was merely a man, if a prophetic one.

Basic logic says both mutually exclusive positions can’t be right.
 
PRmerger said:
We only defend Islam in the same way that our Catechism does. 🤷

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

We share a bond with them and I embrace that bond.
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I have a bond with those Muslims that break the bondage of Islam and worship the Triune God along with us. They are at that point now Christian. 👍
 
jam070406 said:
False analogy. Mormons believe made up stuff about Jesus and have invalid baptism. We say they don’t know the real Jesus and are not Christian.
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Can you quote a Magisterial document that says Mormons “don’t know the real Jesus”?

Now, of course, where their Christology departs from the deposit of faith we say they are wrong, but where they declare things consonant with the faith, we give them a 👍

So, for example, when they say that children are a blessing from God, we give them a hearty amen!
Much akin to Muslims who don’t know the one true God.
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Our Catechism says otherwise. :yup:
 
jam070406 said:
I have a bond with those Muslims that break the bondage of Islam and worship the Triune God along with us. They are at that point now Christian. 👍
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If they’re now Christian then I give them a 👍 as well!

If they turn atheist, then I, sadly give them a thumbs down.

And if they return to Islam, after a venture in atheism, I give them a 👍 for going in the right direction. 🙂
 
jam070406 said:
No it doesn’t. Your interpretation does.
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What god does our Catechism say they adore? It clearly says that Muslims adore god.

Please 'splain who this god is that the Catechism refers to that Muslims adore.
 
PRmerger said:
Can you quote a Magisterial document that says Mormons “don’t know the real Jesus”?

Now, of course, where their Christology departs from the deposit of faith we say they are wrong, but where they declare things consonant with the faith, we give them a 👍

So, for example, when they say that children are a blessing from God, we give them a hearty amen!

Our Catechism says otherwise. :yup:
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How about their own words?

The Mormon President Gordon B. Hinckley said “we do not believe in the traditional Christ of Christianity … our knowledge comes of the witness of a prophet” (LDS General Conference Apr 2002). Mormonism teaches Jesus is “a God” of many Gods
 
PRmerger said:
you actually do participate in “what if” scenarios.
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The Muslims do not worship the Trinitarian God…and I do not paly "what if " games when it comes to that fact.

But if it makes you feel better that you found an instance three years ago where I said “what if”…then great!🤷
 
PRmerger said:
What god does our Catechism say they adore? It clearly says that Muslims adore god.

Please 'splain who this god is that the Catechism refers to that Muslims adore.
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It doesn’t speculate who their god is.
It does say Muslims who acknowledge the creator (Trinity) are included in the plan of salvation (the Gospel). It’s those Muslims that accept the gift of Faith.
 
PRmerger said:
We are looking at the bigger picture here and making a point that you are inconsistent.
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To my knowledge…the Methodists pray to the Trinitarian God…Father, Son , and Holy Spirit. The Muslims consciously and intentionally do not recognize…nor do they pray… to the Trinitarian God.

There are no inconsistencies.
 
Mickey said:
To my knowledge…the Methodists pray to the Trinitarian God…Father, Son , and Holy Spirit. The Muslims consciously and intentionally do not recognize…nor do they pray… to the Trinitarian God.

There are no inconsistencies.
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Oh so you are saying that God revealed to them the mystery of the Trinity, and they have been given Grace to fully understand it and intentionally do not accept it!

Now this is so hard to believe, when they do not even have the true Gospel or the True teachings of the Catholic Church. If they get even caught with a bible they will be killed, alone try to study it. But yet they consciously and intentionally do this.

Holy Smokes!🤷

Then the world is misleading us also. Telling us that if they do not submit to the teachings of Muhammad they will be killed.
 
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