Not your average dateless single guy thread

[Bataar]

Nice to know I’m not alone, thanks.

With me, it’s not that I’m shy, but that I need there to be something to talk about. I hate small talk. It might as well be Mandarin Chinese as far as I’m concerned. If I’m somewhere, and see a woman I find attractive, all I know about her is that she’s attractive which, as far as I can tell, isn’t really a basis for a conversation. Also, an issue/problem with me is that when I talk, the focus is on the subject being discussed, not the person I’m discussing it with. With the exception of a few jokes, I only talk when I need information or when someone requests information from me. That’s just the way my brain works.

I’ve had people recommend things I should ask (usually after the fact) but it just doesn’t mesh with my brain. “Ask her about her job.” someone will tell me. My immediate reaction is, “Why would I want to know about her job?” At this point, she’s a complete stranger and I can’t see how the information given to me with that question will be useful or anything so there’s no point in asking the question. Why do I want to waste time and energy asking anyone a question if the answer given will just be meaningless and not apply to anything?

Having Aspergers also makes it very hard, if not impossible, (it’s a big spectrum) to read body language and facial expressions, which makes flirting nigh impossible. I’ve been out to various places and have had women come up to me and ask me how tall I am (I’m 6’6" by the way). As comes naturally to me, I provide the requested information. Sometimes, the person will ask another question or say something that implies they’re impressed. My friend(s) will witness this and ask me if I got her number and are shocked when I say no. They’ll tell me she was flirting with me, but as far as I could tell, she just wanted to know how tall I am.

As with most people with Aspergers, I have a set of extreme, special interests. They are definitely niche things and not something most people, especially women, my age would be interested in talking about. I know this so I don’t go out of my way to talk about the things I like. Some people with Aspergers have a problem that they just talk and talk about something they’re interested, oblivious to the fact that they are boring the other person. I know not to do that so I usually just keep to myself. Something tells me that walking up to some random woman and trying to talk to her about the latest expansion for Magic: the Gathering probably wouldn’t blow over too well.

 

[francesca_gen]

I think the two things that hold me back are my height and race. I feel like girls all want 6’2 white guys so they can come up to the guy’s chest and feel secure. I’m 5’8 and Asian. Women won’t date shorter men, and I hear Asians are at the bottom of the ladder in dating. We are stereotyped as geeky, too quiet, and too different. The things that are valued in Asia–stoicism, work as high priority, respecting tradition, respecting elders, decorum, and so on–are not values in the West. Asians also avoid physical affection in public, which is not a value in the West.

I’ve tried to be Americanized in all of these areas (after all, I am American too), but somehow I still feel that though women will say hi to me, they won’t really care to get to know me on a better level.

I’ve always been most attracted to white women from an early age–that’s just how I am. But I feel like white women don’t like Asian men. Why are women attracted to whites, blacks, and Hispanics, but not Asians? Is it because there are few Asian actors in Hollywood?

Hmmm. I’m about as white a woman as you would ever meet (I’m almost translucent) and I had my heart broken by a Korean guy… It’s true that before I knew him most Asian guys weren’t on my radar (I have usually preferred Latin men), but I notice them now.

I understand the stereotyping thing, and it’s true I tend to find attractive the more “altenative” looking Asian guys, but that’s me.

What I’ve learned over the years is that while I have a “type,” I can be very attracted to someone who doesn’t fit that type – and, as in the case with Asian guys, I might even develop a new “type” to like as well. So even though you prefer white women (which is fine), maybe you could consider just finding someone you like who likes you back, regardless.

I understand too the feeling of your situation being outside your control. I don’t feel particularly virtuous being celibate when no one’s propositioning me, either. But what can you do?

And lastly, yeah – the intensity of your desire may come across as desperation (I know it has in my case sometimes). It isn’t easy, but trying to relax around this issue might help.

Peace,
Francesca

 

[flyingfish]

All this says to me is that you have a mental block. So my post still stands. If you truly want to get laid, you will easily get laid. However, mental blocks block this move. They put thoughts into your head. But that doesn’t make what I said any less true. It just makes it harder for you to realise the truth in it.

Be thankful you have a mental block then! Some guys have no conscience and just do as they please.

There are plenty of secular men who want to get laid, who have no moral issues with getting laid, but who can’t find a woman who’ll sleep with them.

Getting laid might be very easy for a man who looks like a supermodel, but women are generally picky and won’t have one night stands with average men. An average guy’s best bet to regularly get laid is marriage, and a relationship is not easy to find or maintain.

Plus, the guy who wants to get laid has standards too. And he wouldn’t want to get laid with a prostitute for example, which would also be easy if you have the money and don’t fear STD’s.

 

[former_Catholic]

Getting laid might be very easy for a man who looks like a supermodel, but women are generally picky and won’t have one night stands with average men.

My former tennis partner looked like a cross between Orlando Bloom and Antonio Banderas and we’d both laugh and shrug when women would visibly swoon when he walked by, but you are quite right, and women won’t generally have one night stands with supermodels either!

NewsTheMan is a member of a population on the verge of extinction, and populations on the verge of extinction typically engage in a last massive burst of reproductive behavior before they die out. In NewsTheMan’s world, the remnants of the white ruling class of South Africa are having bacchanalia at their elite university in the middle of the South African AIDS epidemic and regard HIV as only a problem of the “lower classes.” It is his world, but it isn’t at all typical of the rest of the world, except for other populations on the verge of extinction (armies, warlords, gangs, etc.).

 

[flyingfish]

My former tennis partner looked like a cross between Orlando Bloom and Antonio Banderas and we’d both laugh and shrug when women would visibly swoon when he walked by, but you are quite right, and women won’t generally have one night stands with supermodels either!

It’s all very true, it is much harder to find a woman willing to have a one night stand than a man.

I’m secular, I see nothing wrong with casual sex but I’ve never had a one night stand and I don’t intend to. A big concern is STD’s, but even if there were no STD’s unattached sex just doesn’t appeal to me.

It would really have to be a guy on par with the male lead from Lost or something along those lines for me to want to have casual sex. And your typical guy is nowhere near that level.

NewsTheMan is a member of a population on the verge of extinction, and populations on the verge of extinction typically engage in a last massive burst of reproductive behavior before they die out. In NewsTheMan’s world, the remnants of the white ruling class of South Africa are having bacchanalia at their elite university in the middle of the South African AIDS epidemic and regard HIV as only a problem of the “lower classes.” It is his world, but it isn’t at all typical of the rest of the world, except for other populations on the verge of extinction (armies, warlords, gangs, etc.).

Maybe, I’ve never encountered in real life the kind of behavior he says is common where he lives.

 

[francesca_gen]

There are plenty of secular men who want to get laid, who have no moral issues with getting laid, but who can’t find a woman who’ll sleep with them.
.

Also the case with secular women. Back in my somewhat dissolute youth, I was assured of this as well. It didn’t work that way – being larger than “acceptable,” and being shy until I know people well, pretty much put the kibosh on that. It’s a good thing in retrospect, but when people say that it’s easy to find sex I roll my eyes inwardly.

Francesca

 

[flyingfish]

Also the case with secular women. Back in my somewhat dissolute youth, I was assured of this as well. It didn’t work that way – being larger than “acceptable,” and being shy until I know people well, pretty much put the kibosh on that. It’s a good thing in retrospect, but when people say that it’s easy to find sex I roll my eyes inwardly.

Francesca

Maybe saying that it’s easy to find sex makes the choice not to have sex more of a sacrifice in people’s minds?

 

[francesca_gen]

Maybe saying that it’s easy to find sex makes the choice not to have sex more of a sacrifice in people’s minds?

That could be in some cases. In the case of my (not religious) friends, I think it was both that they were tired of my “But I’m alllll alllllooooone” whining and also that they, themselves, being slimmer and more outgoing, were much more likely to find men who desired them.

All I know is it ain’t true across the board.

 

[NewsTheMan]

NewsTheMan is a member of a population on the verge of extinction, and populations on the verge of extinction typically engage in a last massive burst of reproductive behavior before they die out. In NewsTheMan’s world, the remnants of the white ruling class of South Africa are having bacchanalia at their elite university in the middle of the South African AIDS epidemic and regard HIV as only a problem of the “lower classes.” It is his world, but it isn’t at all typical of the rest of the world, except for other populations on the verge of extinction (armies, warlords, gangs, etc.).

You really are unbelievable.

Who is on the verge of extinction? The white minority in South Africa? Are you kidding me? Do you know what extinction means? Show me proof of this massive burst of reproductive behaviour - in human beings that is.

And you have absolutely no idea how things work here. And yet in your arrogance you think you do. Unforuntely, its not all political correctness and rainbow nation back here. AIDS is only a problem for the working class. Now, you can sit and say thats what I regard it as… Well no, thats what the truth is. How dare you call my culture and race one on the verge of extinction? And come up with some theory as to why middle class college students are having sex a lot - because yeah, that really does’nt happen does it? Surprise, young people have a lot of sex. Its amazing that as soon as people hear about a different country all of a sudden they see theirs as being too good for that behaviour and they are able to criticize and act aloof.

Either you have a very different experience of the world than I do, in which case fine. Or you are oblivious to what I am getting to and talking about, which I think is the real answer. I actually don’t even know how to respond to your theories.This is from the same guy that thinks transplant donors and receivers are connected to each other in their consciousness and thoughts. So I am not that surprised.

As for the arguments against what I have been saying about “Getting laid” etc. I still think the point is being missed.

Sure, you know plenty of guys who cant get laid. Why? Because they are average guys. BUT they are looking for “hot” women. Thats the whole point of the culture. Every guy just wants a hot chick. So of course, they will never get laid, because women are picky, and wont go below themselves. But I said that; I said you have to go “below” your standards in order to get sex easily. Which is the truth. Trying to go for the supermodel looking women, if you are an average (or ugly, geeky, whatever) guy will only lead to bad results. But that just means you don’t really want sex or to “Get laid” you just want a beautiful women. If you want to phsyically satisfy yourself - it is easy. I stand by all my posts which explain this point properly.

If you confuse the motives behind it all then you will be stumped, sure. Some guys say they want sex when all they mean is they want a beautiful women.Some guys say they want sex when what they mean is they want sex.And in my posts I have only been speaking about the latter, because I think in any case anybody who purely “just wants to get laid” has gone far beyond any moral considerations or standard judgements.

Lets not confuse what is going on here. If we use the working out analogy from my previous posts it’s like this:
Some people say, I want to work out. But what they mean is, “I want a six pack”. But that takes dedication, and it has intrinsic barriers that make it hard to get that goal.
But if you merely say, I want to work out and just mean it for what it is. Then, it is easy. Its a kind of a “beggars can’t be choosers” scenario.

I’m not saying anything more, or anything less, so don’t read it what I’m saying over and above what I am saying.

 

[flyingfish]

Sure, you know plenty of guys who cant get laid. Why? Because they are average guys. BUT they are looking for “hot” women. Thats the whole point of the culture. Every guy just wants a hot chick. So of course, they will never get laid, because women are picky, and wont go below themselves. But I said that; I said you have to go “below” your standards in order to get sex easily.

You’re assuming that men and women equally want one night stands, it’s just not true. There may be some women who want to sleep around, but there are fewer of them than there are men who want it.

With women being pickier than men for biological reasons, and women generally not wanting casual sex as much as men, it’s very conceivable that a guy will have trouble getting laid. Even women below his standards may not want him.

Frankly, in many other mammals over half the males will never mate because the competition for females is stiff, and the top males will dominate. Human beings are not as polygamous as most other mammals, but “serial monogamy” is pretty common, and you might well see women holding out until the more attractive guy moves on from his current woman to get a chance to be with him, even if there are plenty less desirable men available.

 

[flyingfish]

statemaster.com/graph/lif_per_of_men_who_nev_mar-percent-men-who-never-married 30.2% of American men never married.

statemaster.com/graph/lif_per_of_wom_who_nev_mar-percent-women-who-never-married 24.4% of American women never married.

This supports the idea that some guys are servicing multiple women.

 

[former_Catholic]

Who is on the verge of extinction?

Your population of “white, elitist, privileged, wealthy, young university students attending a university of 5000” represents an EXTREME minority population sector of South Africa.
Compared to universities in Europe and the U.S. your university has a student population the size of 2 average secondary schools combined and would unlikely be regarded as a university at all, let alone any sort of “top 3” university. Your perspective (stated elsewhere) that HIV is only a problem among the “lower classes” and AIDS is only a problem among the “working classes” would cause you to find yourself the object of personal and universal ridicule in the U.S.

Your extreme minority population is “on the verge of extinction” as a specific population through several factors:
graduation (eliminates “student” status)
global economic downturn (increasingly eliminates “wealthy” “privileged” status)
emigration (voluntary or mandatory emigration from school or country. Out-of-country emigration rates for the university educated South African population are very high)
accident, violence, or disease sufficiently severe to eliminate student status (South Africa currently suffers both a high rate of violence and epidemics of both HIV/AIDS and treatment-resistant tuberculosis.
(fin24.com/Economy/Million-whites-leave-SA-study-20060924
digitaljournal.com/article/262718
unisa.ac.za/default.asp?Cmd=ViewContent&ContentID=13537)

growing up would furthermore eliminate the “young” status, supplanting it with an “older and wiser” or otherwise “more mature and adult” status.

In other words, you are indeed “a member of a population on the verge of extinction.”

Young people and university students worldwide would regard your own experience as atypical of young people and university students except perhaps for the most wealthy depraved undergraduate fraternity boys whose parents finance their education in expensive private colleges because they would never survive the academic competition anywhere else.
The “eat, drink, drug, and party on for tomorrow we die” mentality and experience is also very commonly observed worldwide among other populations on the verge of extinction (soldiers in war, warlords & gangs, etc.) because they know that tomorrow… they do die.

 

[NewsTheMan]

Compared to universities in Europe and the U.S. your university has a student population the size of 2 average secondary schools combined and would unlikely be regarded as a university at all, let alone any sort of “top 3” university. Your perspective (stated elsewhere) that HIV is only a problem among the “lower classes” would cause you to be universally rejected by women in the U.S. as any sort of “date” at all, and you would find yourself the object of universal ridicule among university students in the U.S.

.

More arrogance. I’m so sorry my university isn’t massive. Typical American bigger equals better. I don’t even know how to respond to that? Universal ridicule in the US isn’t correct english, by the way. The US isnt the universe. My “viewpoint” that only the lower class suffers from AIDS isn’t really a viewpoint. Everybody can suffer from AIDS. Anybody and everybody has the ability. However, it is a problem amongst the lower class. You are confused my friend; and frankly a university student in the US doesn’t know anything about living in a 3rd world country, nevermind anything about HIV and AIDS. So their ridicule would be welcomed. I love American and European folks who honestly do believe they know better than I do.

Let me say again that I have never met anybody with AIDS. Ever. Not lower class, not middle class, not upper class. However, it is a fact that it is the lower class who spread the disease. The uneducated. The poor. So while it is a problem, it isn’t a middle class problem. So don’t get on your high horse and say oh you are ignorant you know nothing. No, YOU are ignorant about the situaition and the facts. Your little polemics are filled with vitriol and unbelievably poor reasoning and ignorance.

As for the rest of your post. Again, I don’t know how to respond because it is a kind of obvious statement, yet at the same time flawed. Basically you are saying something similar to this -

Babies are becoming extinct because babies eventually grow up and cease to be babies.

Well… No, babies don’t become extinct. Not as an individual, nor as a specific population.

And once again, you have injected your own interpretation into all of my posts and come out supposedly on top. You are wrong.

University students worldwide wouldn’t find my experience atypical. Here is why.

If I am talking about my experience of those in the hook up culture. That is my experience of them. It doesn’t constitute my WHOLE lived experience. If I am talking about those people who really feel the need to get laid, then I will speak about my experience of them. That doesn’t constitute my whole lived experience. I thought this was a fairly obvious point.

The assumptions you make are like me watching a Michael Moore documentary and then saying: Well, every American lives under all these George Bush types and they are all idiots and they have all been duped and their lived experience in nothing more than a “stupid president” which is atypical of the rest of the world’s experience of what it is to live as a citizen in a country.

And another thing that is completely wrong about your line of reasoning is this “tomorrow we die” rubbish. I know you think that I am on the verge of extinction. But the people you compare me with are literally possibly about to die. You cannot at one point speak about my life and population in metaphorical terms and then compare me in literal terms. It doesn’t work like that.

Tomorrow, I do not die. My specific population category might change, but I don’t die.
Tomorrow, a soldier may die. And his specific population category doesn’t change.

You are comparing apples and oranges.

Furthermore, you use statistics that are so general that they cannot help your arguments. And then you try to apply them to a specific population. General statistics do not help you. Because they are general. In any case, statistics are ridiculously flawed. Read a book called “The Black Swan” and you will realise why statistics just aren’t important or reliable.

You have taken my posts and made them your own, with assumptions and no critical thought. You then presume to know all about the politics, the sociology and what it means to live in South Africa (and as a young, white male). You spew out your biased and uneducated reasoning and jump to a conclusion that is:
a) flawed
b) nothing to do with what I have actually been talking about
c) off topic completely.

And point ‘c’ I recall made you very upset in a different thread where you have an outburst because people are straying slightly off topic and yet you are allowed to constantly go off track and make sweeping and silly statements.

 

[former_Catholic]

Human beings are not as polygamous as most other mammals, but “serial monogamy” is pretty common, and you might well see women holding out until the more attractive guy moves on from his current woman to get a chance to be with him, even if there are plenty less desirable men available.

It is interesting to note that in matriarchal societies in which women control both property and family the “serial monogamy” of having a husband if and when the woman decides she will have a husband and wants a child has always been the standard method of birth control.

 

[former_Catholic]

I am talking about my experience of those in the hook up culture…

Your generalizations and experience of the “hook up culture” simply needed to be qualified as “that portion of the hook up culture represented by the undergraduate student population of a tiny elite largely white South African university.”
The larger world youth and university population would not regard your generalizations and experience as typical nor particularly representative of their own experience of what is commonly called the “hook up culture.” Has anyone else here legitimately shared your own experience and observations of the hook up culture?
It certainly doesn’t seem so.

 

[former_Catholic]

Let me say again that I have never met anybody with AIDS. Ever. Not lower class, not middle class, not upper class. However, it is a fact that it is the lower class who spread the disease. The uneducated. The poor. So while it is a problem, it isn’t a middle class problem.

The fact is that sexual promiscuity spreads HIV and HIV takes about 10 years to manifest as AIDS. Your drunken teen and early 20’s undergraduate friends of the “hook up culture” at your university are very much an extremely high risk population, irregardless of their “class” and status as elites in your country. As such, I regard your own experience and arguments here against men in their serious discussion of single guy dating issues as pretty irrelevant.

 

[former_Catholic]

As for the single ethnically Asian guy dating issue, there is also the matter of how far removed one is from the country of ethnic origin. The first generation born out of country seems to have the most difficult time socializing and dating in general because of the torn-between-two-cultures issue. Of the first generation, the daughters generally have an infinitely easier time dating either within or out-of-culture, but the sons can suffer terribly because they are charged with continuing the family name and family and cultural traditions and all the women recognize that. It isn’t just within Asian culture either, but all cultures across the board that women recognize that. The first generation born-out-of-country sons generally suffer that hardest social and cultural conflict issues because they carry the continuance of the family name.

In the Japanese-American community it was a huge deal whether a guy was isssei, nisei, or sansei. They talked about it incessantly in the girls’ locker room in high school that they would “rather marry even a white guy than an issei” because of the necessity of having to (and wanting to) fit into the American culture as American women. They did not want to be stuck with the social, cultural, and language expectations of a “most favored son” and his mother as one’s mother-in-law… and particularly an eldest son!

In the Chinese-American community language was a huge issue… that if one married a first-generation Chinese American guy, one would be expected to speak and understand all of his Chinese speaking relatives, which was not an easy task for a second or third generation Chinese-American girl, and yet, because she was ethnically Chinese it would be taken for granted that she must speak and understand the language with fluency or be regarded as mentally lacking. The language issue was a huge issue because Chinese is not a particularly easy language to learn because of the tonal aspects. On the other hand there was also the “I’d rather see you dead than married in a white dress” issue between girls and their mothers.

Cultural conflicts and trying to balance one’s cultural background with the dominant society of another culture really do take their toll hardest on the first generation, and of that generation it hits the sons even harder than the daughters because of the family expectations of a son in both cultures.
The second and third generations have things much easier…

 

[NewsTheMan]

The fact is that sexual promiscuity spreads HIV and HIV takes about 10 years to manifest as AIDS. Your drunken teen and early 20’s undergraduate friends of the “hook up culture” at your university are very much an extremely high risk population, irregardless of their “class” and status as elites in your country. As such, I regard your own experience and arguments here against men in their serious discussion of single guy dating issues as pretty irrelevant.

The fact is that HIV and AIDS needs to spread from person to person and it doesn’t just magically appear. If the middle class are sleeping with each other, and the middle class do not have aids, where does this AIDS come from? It doesn’t just edge its way in, despite the way the media frames it. The fact is that because AIDS is such a big thing here, most people, even those who are basically zero risk, test themselves on a regular basis, if not just for symbolic purpose. And yes, regardless of culture and class you are still at risk but that isn’t actually what you have been saying. For example, you wouldn’t tell the 13th Earl of Rochester that he is in danger of being shot in a drive by. It just wont happen. It’s possible, yes, but highly unlikely and probably wont happen in this lifetime. Furthermore, you can’t then tell him that he should be vigilant of gangs in his area and the spread of gang violence in his area because way out in LA there are gangs. No. Again it doesn’t work like that. Class seperations are more than just language or predicate seperation. Fact. There exists a divide and in those divisions there are real and lived experiences and all sorts of politics and sociological factors.

If you consider my original post irrelevent, fine, then refrain from commenting on. But the parts you keep attacking were in fact parts that YOU created. All this HIV talk and gangsters and class and university. This is what you brought up. I was giving my opinion on something, and my opinion makes perfect sense. You continually take parts of my posts (in this thread and others) and build a straw man around it and start attacking and once I have shot you down another issue comes up and another and another and another. And then you sit on a high horse and pretend that you have nothing to do with it all and you are above it and it doesn’t matter anyway.

 

[flyingfish]

The fact is that HIV and AIDS needs to spread from person to person and it doesn’t just magically appear. If the middle class are sleeping with each other, and the middle class do not have aids, where does this AIDS come from? It doesn’t just edge its way in, despite the way the media frames it. The fact is that because AIDS is such a big thing here, most people, even those who are basically zero risk, test themselves on a regular basis, if not just for symbolic purpose. And yes, regardless of culture and class you are still at risk but that isn’t actually what you have been saying. For example, you wouldn’t tell the 13th Earl of Rochester that he is in danger of being shot in a drive by. It just wont happen. It’s possible, yes, but highly unlikely and probably wont happen in this lifetime. Furthermore, you can’t then tell him that he should be vigilant of gangs in his area and the spread of gang violence in his area because way out in LA there are gangs. No. Again it doesn’t work like that. Class seperations are more than just language or predicate seperation. Fact. There exists a divide and in those divisions there are real and lived experiences and all sorts of politics and sociological factors.

If you consider my original post irrelevent, fine, then refrain from commenting on. But the parts you keep attacking were in fact parts that YOU created. All this HIV talk and gangsters and class and university. This is what you brought up. I was giving my opinion on something, and my opinion makes perfect sense. You continually take parts of my posts (in this thread and others) and build a straw man around it and start attacking and once I have shot you down another issue comes up and another and another and another. And then you sit on a high horse and pretend that you have nothing to do with it all and you are above it and it doesn’t matter anyway.

If your friends are going to sex parties and sleeping with each other on a regular basis, they are at a huge risk of getting HIV (not to mention, many if not most of them likely have HPV and herpes which are very common diseases and condoms won’t protect against them). Their risk is lowered if they always use condoms (including both for anal and oral sex), but it’s still there. It would only take one infected person to potentially infect everyone if they have sex that fequently (and of course the biggest concern would that people at a drunken sex party, where women are likely on hormonal birth control, or where people have anal sex would choose not to use condoms; then you can get the kind of thing that happened with AIDS in the US gay community, who were having unprotected anal sex).

I know you’re arguing against a different point, but should you ever slip up and decide to have sex with any of those people, you should make sure they get a test before you do anything. Any group of people that has sex that frequently and with different people is a high risk group for STD’s.

 

[NewsTheMan]

If your friends are going to sex parties and sleeping with each other on a regular basis, they are at a huge risk of getting HIV (not to mention, many if not most of them likely have HPV and herpes which are very common diseases and condoms won’t protect against them). Their risk is lowered if they always use condoms (including both for anal and oral sex), but it’s still there. It would only take one infected person to potentially infect everyone if they have sex that fequently (and of course the biggest concern would that people at a drunken sex party, where women are likely on hormonal birth control, or where people have anal sex would choose not to use condoms; then you can get the kind of thing that happened with AIDS in the US gay community, who were having unprotected anal sex).

I know you’re arguing against a different point, but should you ever slip up and decide to have sex with any of those people, you should make sure they get a test before you do anything. Any group of people that has sex that frequently and with different people is a high risk group for STD’s.

They aren’t at a huge risk of getting HIV. STD’s yeah, definitely. HIV, no. Not a huge risk. Because as I argued, white middle class people just don’t have HIV. It cannot and will not magically appear. It does take only one person, but that one person isn’t anywhere where I am.

If you do like statistics here they are avert.org/safricastats.htm

and statssa.gov.za/PublicationsHTML/P03022009/html/P03022009.html

0.3% of the white population here have HIV.
4.4 Million whites.

Now take all that in. And add to that the number of lower class whites, in whom AIDS is more prevelant. Add to that the cases of rape here that spread aids. Add to that people who get aids through no fault of their own (being stabbed, medical malpractice etc). Add to that those who have children and thus spread the disease. Add to that that these stats are for the whole white population, not my age group. All those factors mean:

The amount of HIV that is being spread by white middle class, young, university students is probably 0.001%.

But I agree with you. STD’s are a seperate point. But former Catholic seems to argue weird and off topic points. Anyway, I think most people arent that afraid of STD’s because they think it can all be medically cured. But yeah, different topic all together.