Not your average dateless single guy thread

[flyingfish]

They aren’t at a huge risk of getting HIV. STD’s yeah, definitely. HIV, no. Not a huge risk. Because as I argued, white middle class people just don’t have HIV. It cannot and will not magically appear. It does take only one person, but that one person isn’t anywhere where I am.

If you do like statistics here they are avert.org/safricastats.htm

and statssa.gov.za/PublicationsHTML/P03022009/html/P03022009.html

0.3% of the white population here have HIV.
4.4 Million whites.

0.3% is a significant number. It means, 3 out of 1000 people. If your university has 5000 people, that’s 15 students with HIV. By the way, this is just applying the general statistic. The general statistic includes whites who are married and who don’t sleep around. It includes older whites who come from a different time where sleeping around was a frowned upon behavior. That number could very well be higher in a group that has frequent casual sex with multiple partners.

By the way, this assumes that whites will only have sex with whites, which does not represent reality. It’s not reasonable to think that people who go to sex parties to look for casual sex are only going to have casual sex with members of their race and class.

Some people even have a fetish for interracial sex.

I’m arguing about this with you mostly because you seem to me to have a false and dangerous to you estimate of risk.

 

[NewsTheMan]

0.3% is a significant number. It means, 3 out of 1000 people. If your university has 5000 people, that’s 15 students with HIV. By the way, this is just applying the general statistic. The general statistic includes whites who are married and who don’t sleep around. It includes older whites who come from a different time where sleeping around was a frowned upon behavior. That number could very well be higher in a group that has frequent casual sex with multiple partners.

By the way, this assumes that whites will only have sex with whites, which does not represent reality. It’s not reasonable to think that people who go to sex parties to look for casual sex are only going to have casual sex with members of their race and class.

Some people even have a fetish for interracial sex.

I’m arguing about this with you mostly because you seem to me to have a false and dangerous to you estimate of risk.

5000 people, 2000 whites.

So thats about 6 people. And lets say that my points about stats and your points then cancel each other out. Those 6 white people with HIV then. They probably know. They probably won’t engage in casual sex, because of the stigma. They probably wouldn’t even be in university because of the stigma and because of the class considerations etc.

And again, my representation of reality is one hundred percent on target. I live here. Racism is alive. White people dont even socialise with black people, really. Nevermind engaging in casual sex with them. Unfortunately, at the cost of being politically correct, this is the truth. Anyway, sex parties aren’t what happens. I never said sex parties. Parties where sexual things happen, or where sex is easy to get, sure. Sex parties, no.

My assessment of risk is, once again, on target. I don’t have sex. My risk is zero (in the realm of sex that is). And even if I was having casual sex, my risk would still be negligable. Maybe that would be foolish thinking, but its human nature to not statistically pay attention to 0.3%.

 

[NewsTheMan]

This also seems to be one of those cases where people know better than you… but actually don’t. It’s like my mom. Whenever I work for the local newspaper I get put on the crime beat. I interview criminals, go to their houses, whatever. My mom without fail tells me to be careful and beg for a different beat and how this and that and I must carry pepperspray and bla bla bla bla bla! And I’m thinking “huh”? I know whats going on. I know the risks. I can assess. And there isn’t a risk. At least, its negligable. And I am sure we have all had those kind of situations. This is one of them. A couple of foreigners telling my what my risk is, or those around me, or what the situation is. No no, thats not how it works.

Plus, for some reason former Catholic seems to have lumped together sexual immorality with stupidity and carelessness. Sure, there may be some careless sexual things going on. But these people aren’t stupid. Just immoral. Just love having sex with random people. I am positive that they use protection, and that they know the risks. Somehow we went from the morality to lumping morality with your exposure to AIDS. And that jump doesn’t make sense.

 

[flyingfish]

Plus, for some reason former Catholic seems to have lumped together sexual immorality with stupidity and carelessness. Sure, there may be some careless sexual things going on. But these people aren’t stupid. Just immoral. Just love having sex with random people. I am positive that they use protection, and that they know the risks. Somehow we went from the morality to lumping morality with your exposure to AIDS. And that jump doesn’t make sense.

Aids is not the only STD. HPV, the virus that causes genital warts, is extremely common, and is passed by contact (so wearing a condom won’t help you). Same with herpes, and it’s incurable.

The only way you can have some semblance of safety in casual sex is if you’re a member of a casual sex club that regularly tests its members, and where people make a commitment not to sleep with anyone outside the club lest they bring in STD’s. Even that wouldn’t guarantee to protect you.

Going to a party where people go in underwear or nothing at all, with the intention of getting laid, is very high risk behavior. There has to be a certain level of carelessness and abandon to engage in that kind of behavior.

 

[NewsTheMan]

flyingfish, to be honest from your post there and from my posts it seems we are basically agreeing, at least agreeing in some tautological way.

Look, I just think former Catholic jumps to conclusions and is very sly about things, and also very arrogant about them. My basic point against a lot of what he says, in the form of an analogy appropriate for Christians:

Committing a sin (which is evil) doesn’t necessarily make you evil. And committing a sin doesn’t make you a demon. Nor does it make you posessed.

Having casual and irresponsible sex, doesn’t necessarily mean you are irresponsible or stupid. And having casual sex doesn’t infect you with aids. Maybe if you carried on for a long time with many different types of people you will get it. But that isn’t what I am discussing at least.

 

[former_Catholic]

Having casual and irresponsible sex, doesn’t necessarily mean you are irresponsible or stupid. And having casual sex doesn’t infect you with aids. Maybe if you carried on for a long time with many different types of people you will get it. But that isn’t what I am discussing at least.

Exhibiting stupid irresponsible behavior doesn’t necessarily mean one is stupid or irresponsible? Sure it doesn’t…

When you tell people that “it’s easy to get laid,” tell a man with Asperger’s that if he doesn’t agree with you he simply has “a mental block,” compare the issue of “getting laid” to “working out in a gym” …and claim your own personal observations and experience as your basis for your claim of the relative ease with which men obtain sex… you invite everyone to challenge your own personal observations and experience in these matters. Your observations and experiences represent an elite wealthy white population segment within South Africa who have a certain attitude toward casual sex, and are not particularly applicable elsewhere.

Throughout the world the risk of HIV infection is of serious concern to the dating public and does affect their interpersonal dating behavior to the degree that it invalidates your argument of the relative “easiness” of getting “laid.” Your range of experience and the attitudes of your particular isolated population toward casual sex and HIV infection do not at all apply to U.S. culture and the comparative difficulty of establishing dating relationships therein, which is the issue the OP has presented in this thread.

 

[former_Catholic]

You might say I should meet girls at church. But to me, church is the hardest place to meet girls, because of the pretense of holiness required at church. If you try to get to know a girl at church, she automatically gets defensive because of the careful treading that the church culture requires when it comes to dating.

Excellent point. It was not always that way; long before you were born…. there were church community “socials” within and between churches.
There was food, conversation, music, and dancing, and it was the entire community…
from Auntie over in the corner complaining about her rheumatism, to Uncle talking about the weather, to Cousin on the piano with the rest of the band… playing dance music for the entire community to dance. It was possible and easy for any young man or woman to visit distant relatives in distant parishes and meet and talk to and dance with all the appropriate eligible young people. The young people met one another and socialized and this was supported by the community as a regular part of the greater community. A young man did not have to be a brilliant conversationalist to entice a nice girl to dance with him rather than listen to Auntie complain about her rheumatism… all he had to be was a reasonable dancer and a good listener and a nice polite respectful guy capable of negotiating…… partnership. Dance develops real skills in reading one another and acting in concert with one another. Dance develops real skills in creating relationship and partnership.

In the United States, the last of the great community dances were held at the beginning of WWII, as ecumenical councils in San Francisco and L.A. pooled their parish social dances together and created the U.S.O. (the United Services Organization) in support of the displaced drafted young men… so that no matter where they were stationed, they would receive Christian social support services. The war turned the social structure toward supporting the troops…
while the children in the U.S. and England (and Europe and Japan and China) grew up in a world where the adults had little or no time for them…
and by the time the war was over… there was nothing but traumatized survivors and children who had grown up largely like animals in the street or playing in bomb craters on all sides…
and there was no more music and no more dancing. People were too traumatized.

Those children grew up and had children… and those children grew up…
but what the parents had never learned themselves, they could not teach…
and so there were no more parish dances offering community support for the community such that young people had a safe, community supported system in which to meet and talk and dance and learn about partnership and community.

There are a few of us who try to keep social dancing alive, and bring back community supported social dancing for the youth of our nations…. Because we think safe community supported socialization and lessons in partnership, equality, and mutuality are vital to the survival of the earth……
but the majority of parents carefully train their children……not for mutuality and partnership…but for war.

 

[kingal86]

I’ve been out to various places and have had women come up to me and ask me how tall I am (I’m 6’6" by the way)…My friend(s) will witness this and ask me if I got her number and are shocked when I say no. They’ll tell me she was flirting with me, but as far as I could tell, she just wanted to know how tall I am.

I wish women chatted me up. That sounds like chatting up to me (though admittedly most of my experience comes from American TV…) Hmm…I’ve learnt enough know that I would at least hope the woman was flirting with me, and would try and carry on the conversation–though I’d be afraid I might come across as desperate.

No woman I don’t know has ever approached and talked to me when I’m out, and I find it hard to imagine, and would consider it out of the ordinary and hopeful since it’s never happened. I assume people won’t just walk up to people to ask random questions (though annoying people sometimes too) I’m about 6’6" too.

Why do I want to waste time and energy asking anyone a question if the answer given will just be meaningless and not apply to anything?

I see to small talk a clear logic to small talk in that situation more-or-less irrelevant to information-content: maintaining the conversation with someone who may like you (and maybe getting a number or even arranging a date) before they disappear and you almost certainly never see them again. Though if you attracted to someone, you ought to interested in what sort of job they have really…

When I tried speed dating (which is awful) the only thing I could really think about asking in 3 min. was what she does for a living/where she studies.

 

[kingal86]

An average guy’s best bet to regularly get laid is marriage, and a relationship is not easy to find or maintain.

I agree with that and don’t get why guys who choose to be to have one-night-stands over long-term relationships/marriage don’t see it, or why on earth they consider a slight probability of sleeping with large numbers of strangers (a change that will diminish as they age too much for the club scene) preferable to a meaningful relationship.

Plus a truly loving, caring long-term relationship provides lots of other things to both partners (companionship, possibly children and a family etc) than just sex. Though I’ve heard in some marriages after the initial passion some people don’t have sex as much, or otherwise have complicated relationship-related issues. I haven’t had a relationship let alone a marriage so I find both hard to imagine.

 

[kingal86]

It’s a good thing in retrospect,** but when people say that it’s easy to find sex I roll my eyes inwardly.**

Francesca

 

[kingal86]

You really are unbelievable.

Sure, you know plenty of guys who cant get laid. Why? Because they are average guys. BUT they are looking for “hot” women…

I am not looking for “hot” women. They’re aren’t very many women in their 20s I am not attracted to. Some women I think are really pretty, others (including my female best friend) consider average or even ugly.

 

[kingal86]

They aren’t at a huge risk of getting HIV. STD’s yeah, definitely. HIV, no. Not a huge risk. Because as I argued, white middle class people just don’t have HIV. It cannot and will not magically appear. It does take only one person, but that one person isn’t anywhere where I am…

Um…I bet certain members of the supposedly HIV-free white middle class have at least occasionally slept with poor blacks who are more likely to have HIV (at least, possibly, prostitutes or members of household staff if it really is still that segregated). Even if it’s only a small number, if any of them weren’t careful it’s enough to introduce HIV into the white middle-class population.

And it is certainly true that having large numbers of sexual partners (even with condoms) is considered high-risk behaviour for STDs.

 

[kingal86]

Excellent point. It was not always that way; long before you were born…. there were church community “socials” within and between churches.
There was food, conversation, music, and dancing, and it was the entire community…
from Auntie over in the corner complaining about her rheumatism, to Uncle talking about the weather, to Cousin on the piano with the rest of the band… It was possible and easy for any young man or woman to visit distant relatives in distant parishes and meet and talk to and dance with all the appropriate eligible young people.

I feel some nostalgia for that sort of society TBH (or at least how I imagine it was). I also wish I lived in a society where relatives still introduced people to potential partners (my parents don’t know many people their 20s–plus it doesn’t feel acceptable in British society), since at the moment being set-up seems to be the only way I am likely to get a date. I certainly wouldn’t consider them to be “interfering” in my life if they did so, I would thank them for their help.

Although mobility, more opportunity, equal rights for both genders etc. are good things, I think society has become much more fragmented and lonely in Britain, the US etc. Which makes it even harder for me (with Aspergers) and makes me fearful of graduating and entering the “real world” as it is now.

 

[former_Catholic]

Although mobility, more opportunity, equal rights for both genders etc. are good things, I think society has become much more fragmented and lonely in Britain, the US etc. Which makes it even harder for me (with Aspergers) and makes me fearful of graduating and entering the “real world” as it is now.

I think we should frame this quotation and post it in every school in every nation in the industrialized world… but it isn’t just people with Aspergers who are affected…
people who grew up between 2 or more languages and cultures are affected…
people who are quicker and more comfortable with the written than spoken word are affected…
people who vastly prefer manipulating objects (than manipulating people!) are affected…
and in the end, everyone and everything… our treatment of ourselves, one another, and our planet are affected.

“we children grew up just like little animals in the street” (London, she was not evacuated)
“we played in bomb craters on all sides” (post-war Coventry)
My relatives and friends from Italy, France, Germany, Japan, China, Poland, and Taiwan…
their stories were all so very much worse.
The fatherless sons, the lone motorcycle-riding, lost and wandering “Rebels Without a Cause” were the icons of an entire generation of kids who grew up in the streets and had no idea of how to build a society… as their parents fought and drank alone next to a radio or in front of a television… trying to forget the war.

Those children grew up and built their world around the biggest lesson they had learned… that survival means war, that survival means winning… always competing, always controlling… always winning… from a nation, to a race, to a street, to a relationship…
They knew nothing… of partnership.
The Vatican even erased the Biblical women from the lectionary…demonstrating for all the world to see that it too fails miserably to understand how to create and maintain functional relationship, functional partnership in society.

If you learn… and teach everyone you know… how to dance… you can help this sorry world begin to learn that survival isn’t about winning, about establishing dominance…but about equality, mutuality, understanding and moving in concert and cooperation and anticipation of one another… about partnership.

The “powerful warrior/ princess sexpot cheerleader” culture and the “team/gang/warlord” culture
will never build a healthy functional society nor a healthy functional planet. Only a generation that understands partnership will be able to so. Only a generation that learns once again on earth… how to dance.

 

[angelic06]

Remember, PraizThinkr, you want a woman to be attracted first and foremost to your soul. Yes, being physically attractive is nice; however, looks do tend to fade away.

Perhaps this may be your cross to bear. One of my friends will always say, “The bigger the cross, the bigger the blessings.”

Like what a lot of people have already said on here, keep praying for your future wife. Personally, I fast for my future husband.

As far as the race/height issue, I would not worry about that. If you encounter discrimination, then obviously, she’s not the girl for you.

Be prayerful and stay close to God. That’s probably the best advice I can offer you.

I agree with all of this, especially the prayer part, though I am not necessarily the best at it. I’ve only recently started praying for my future wife, if I have any—but I am not necessarily in a rush to get one, so I lapse often in my prayers. I still have plenty of other stuff I need to do, as far as getting into professional school, etc., so the prospective spouse part often goes out the window. That being said, one of my goals for the post-Easter season is to start praying a novena as well as go to daily Mass—maybe with one of the intentions of praying for a spouse. (Yes, I know it probably won’t be feasible to go to school full time and be married.) I’ll try fasting sometime.