Notre Dame Cathedral

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jeanne1184
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

Jeanne1184

Guest
I was listening to the basketball scores while waiting for the Fix Point Foundation program to come on this evening and when I heard the Notre Dame scores, I thought to check out the cathedral online.

I really don’t know what to think. Is there some logical explanation for the images found in the pic at the bottom of the Wiki page captioned, “A wide angle view of Notre-Dame’s western facade”?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notre_Dame_de_Paris

The gargoyles have always been a puzzle but are rather common…but this other stuff is jaw-dropping.
 
I don’t understand your question…is there something wrong about the photo that you see? Or something specific in the photo that is worriesome?

I’m looking at it but don’t see anything amiss…
The “Gallery” at the bottom of the page, 2nd photo. Click til it enlarges.
 
The “Gallery” at the bottom of the page, 2nd photo. Click til it enlarges.
You mean the depictions of Hell?

These were quite common at one point. Admittedly seeing bishops in Hell is not so common. But the Church never taught that no bishop ever went to Hell, so it’s actually a good reminder that it can happen to any of us if we’re not careful.
 
You mean the depictions of Hell?

These were quite common at one point. Admittedly seeing bishops in Hell is not so common. But the Church never taught that no bishop ever went to Hell, so it’s actually a good reminder that it can happen to any of us if we’re not careful.
In doing a search from the angle you presented, I found that the area I was looking at is called the “Portal of Judgment”, the west side. I also read the gargoyles are used to “ward off evil”. This would seem to be a Biblical contradiction as “evil cannot ward off evil” any more than “Satan can cast out Satan”.

I don’t know who thought to count them, but one site says there are 5,000 gargoyles in the Paris cathedral. With all the beauty of architecture that is possible, why hideous gargoyles as rain/gutter spouts…and lording over all?

I realize that ‘fire and brimstone’ sermons used to be a common practice to ‘scare people good’ (not so successful), but the depictions on this cathedral are distrubing - especially the one with the backside of the nekkid man riding a horse (one of God’s noblest creatures) bareback. 😦

All in all, I’d have to take a pass on visiting this structure…just too eerie, for me, and too many beautiful and uplifting churches to enjoy instead. 🤷
 
In doing a search from the angle you presented, I found that the area I was looking at is called the “Portal of Judgment”, the west side. I also read the gargoyles are used to “ward off evil”. This would seem to be a Biblical contradiction as “evil cannot ward off evil” any more than “Satan can cast out Satan”.
I understand the logic was slightly different.

The gargoyles did not cast out evil as such, but fooled errant evils spirits into assuming that this space was already occupied by one of their own.

Furthermore, on musn’t forget that the concept of church building has evolved quite a lot since then.

In the middle ages, a church building was not reserved exclusively for Masses and prayer as it is today. Being the only large and publically accessible building in town it would have been used for all sorts of secular functions. There would have been railings and screens to keep the people out of the altar areas at such times, and within those areas there were no secular depictions or decorations, but outside of those some would have been tolerated. The building thus essentially had a secular and an ecclesiastic aspect. It would be like looking at some modern church that is maybe combined with a sports hall, and ask, why are there basketball nets in a church?
 
I was listening to the basketball scores while waiting for the Fix Point Foundation program to come on this evening and when I heard the Notre Dame scores, I thought to check out the cathedral online.

I really don’t know what to think. Is there some logical explanation for the images found in the pic at the bottom of the Wiki page captioned, “A wide angle view of Notre-Dame’s western facade”?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notre_Dame_de_Paris

The gargoyles have always been a puzzle but are rather common…but this other stuff is jaw-dropping.
It’s amazing that a university can have such an old and beautiful cathedral. 😉 😃 😛
 
Had a tour of this magnificent structure last July … Plus a number of others while in Germany… If you get a chance,you must go…
 
In doing a search from the angle you presented, I found that the area I was looking at is called the “Portal of Judgment”, the west side. I also read the gargoyles are used to “ward off evil”. This would seem to be a Biblical contradiction as “evil cannot ward off evil” any more than “Satan can cast out Satan”.

I don’t know who thought to count them, but one site says there are 5,000 gargoyles in the Paris cathedral. With all the beauty of architecture that is possible, why hideous gargoyles as rain/gutter spouts…and lording over all?

I realize that ‘fire and brimstone’ sermons used to be a common practice to ‘scare people good’ (not so successful), but the depictions on this cathedral are distrubing - especially the one with the backside of the nekkid man riding a horse (one of God’s noblest creatures) bareback. 😦

All in all, I’d have to take a pass on visiting this structure…just too eerie, for me, and too many beautiful and uplifting churches to enjoy instead. 🤷
If you think that is bad, take a look at the Denver International Airport for a real eye opener!!!

I dont have a link, but if you go on google and look up DIA artwork, you will find it easily, some of the images and paintings on the wall are crazy, make no sense, unless you are a nazi stormtrooper! They appear extremely evil in nature, and while Im not sure, I would bet there is more meaning to them than we are led to believe.
 
I also read the gargoyles are used to “ward off evil”. This would seem to be a Biblical contradiction as “evil cannot ward off evil” any more than “Satan can cast out Satan”.:
Sort of. There is a legend that in the pagan days when Parish was a simply fishing villiage, it was terrorized by a river monster who spit water. The monsters name was the gargouille, the spitter. (gargle come from the same middle French work)

St Romain arrived and lured the monster to where it could be killed, and converted many to the Church.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gargouille

The gargoyles (which figure prominently as waterspouts on the buttresses) received their name from that legend.

Their presence at the Church is a reminder of the evil that was expelled, and of God’s power over evil, not that they do any actual dispelling of evil themselves.
 
If you think that is bad, take a look at the Denver International Airport for a real eye opener!!!

I dont have a link, but if you go on google and look up DIA artwork, you will find it easily, some of the images and paintings on the wall are crazy, make no sense, unless you are a nazi stormtrooper! They appear extremely evil in nature, and while Im not sure, I would bet there is more meaning to them than we are led to believe.
Yep, people have been putting ‘hidden’ demonic imagery in ‘normal’ paintings for centuries. And also very explicit demonic pics/signs/symbols all over the globe. What I find too strange for words, however, is to see such things all over a Catholic Cathedral. Just doesn’t compute, for me.

I looked at some of the artwork at DIA but the one that caught my eye is by the Freemason’s:

“The time capsule beneath this stone contains messages and memorabilia to the people of Colorado 2094…New World Airport Commission…March 19, 1994…” There was a program on H2 (History Channel) that investigated rumors about the DIA underground tunnels, but I didn’t hear anything about this ‘time capsule’. Makes me think of the Georgia Guidestones.

Van Gogh did a painting called, “The Potato Peeler” of this woman peeling one in a rocking chair. I can’t find a clear enough image to send a link but, if you go looking, enlarge it enough to get a good look at her right finger/hand. A haunting message of some sort, for sure. Van Gogh’s interest in potatoes caused me to research them - and stop eating them…just in case. 😉 Fortunately, sweet potatoes are still on the ‘good’ list. 🙂
 
Sort of. There is a legend that in the pagan days when Parish was a simply fishing villiage, it was terrorized by a river monster who spit water. The monsters name was the gargouille, the spitter. (gargle come from the same middle French work)

St Romain arrived and lured the monster to where it could be killed, and converted many to the Church.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gargouille

The gargoyles (which figure prominently as waterspouts on the buttresses) received their name from that legend.

Their presence at the Church is a reminder of the evil that was expelled, and of God’s power over evil, not that they do any actual dispelling of evil themselves.
Nah. Sorry, I just can’t see Jesus in that setting.
 
Yep, people have been putting ‘hidden’ demonic imagery in ‘normal’ paintings for centuries. And also very explicit demonic pics/signs/symbols all over the globe. What I find too strange for words, however, is to see such things all over a Catholic Cathedral. Just doesn’t compute, for me.

I looked at some of the artwork at DIA but the one that caught my eye is by the Freemason’s:

“The time capsule beneath this stone contains messages and memorabilia to the people of Colorado 2094…New World Airport Commission…March 19, 1994…” There was a program on H2 (History Channel) that investigated rumors about the DIA underground tunnels, but I didn’t hear anything about this ‘time capsule’. Makes me think of the Georgia Guidestones.

Van Gogh did a painting called, “The Potato Peeler” of this woman peeling one in a rocking chair. I can’t find a clear enough image to send a link but, if you go looking, enlarge it enough to get a good look at her right finger/hand. A haunting message of some sort, for sure. Van Gogh’s interest in potatoes caused me to research them - and stop eating them…just in case. 😉 Fortunately, sweet potatoes are still on the ‘good’ list. 🙂
Yea, I have never understood why they put the name ‘new world airport commission’ on it…?? Why not put USA or something similar?

While Im not sure of the motive, Im pretty sure DIA was created to be more than an airport, Im not even going to begin talking about those tunnels underneath it and what they could possibly be used for!! lol
 
You can’t see Jesus in the defeat of evil??

Our parish has a statue of the head of Satan in our sanctuary St. Michael is stepping on it.
Somehow, when the gargoyles dominate all the top positions, I don’t read ‘defeat’ of evil. Why not 5,000 (good) angels instead of 5,000 gargoyles? They could be holding watering cans for the ‘water spouts’. 🙂

Coincidentally, on SYFX channel this evening, there were two movies: “Rise of the Gargoyles” and “Reign of the Gargoyles”. These stories come from somewhere…maybe far in the past with the Rephaim, etc. they existed and will return. I could understand their presence on pagan buildings, but have trouble accepting a wholesome purpose on Christian churches (no matter what religion); turns out Notre Dame Cathedral is one of many.

In the movie, the gargoyles turned to stone in the daylight, so I went looking for confirmation of the storyline and found:

“By day they are merely stone creatures to adorn buildings, by night they are defenders of a city. At night they come to life and protect while one is asleep and vulnerable.” Eerie, eh? Do you think the gargoyles on the Notre Dame Cathedral go flying about on new moons? :bigyikes: 😃

There was also a comment in one article that architects (way back then…and now?) always made sure to put a gargoyle somewhere in their buidling because if they didn’t, evil forces would cause the building to collapse.

Well, it has been interesting, but back to ‘more earthly’ study. 🙂
 
There is in Switzerland near Göschenen a very tall and narrow hump-back bridge over a very deep ravine. The bridge looks so impossible and seems to defy the laws of physics in hanging up there, but it seems to be well built as it has been there for many centuries.

Local legend has it that when the locals tried to build the bridge, they failed time and time again as it was too difficult. Every time it collapsed. So one day the Devil came to them by night and offered to teach them how to build the bridge. The price, however, was that he would get the sould of the first person to walk across the bridge.

The villagers debated the offer at length, with many being against. But on the other hand the bridge was important and they knew they had no other way of building it. So finally they agreed. The Devil then showed them how to cut the stones and how to fit them together so they would hold tight even in that high and exposed location with so little support. So they built the bridge and it held.

But now they had to decide which among their number should be sacrificed to pay the Devil’s price. Being crafty people, they soon found a way to cheat the Devil and they chased a goat across the bridge. When the Devil saw that he had been cheated he was furious and hurled a great rock down from the mountain top, cursing whoever should attempt to move that rock. The rock had landed in the middle of the road but the villagers built another road around it. The rock grew to be a tourist attraction in its own right, as did the bridge. However, when in the 1980s a highway was being built, here was no way to get past the rock and move it, and so great cranes had to be brough in to shift it to one side. Many villagers opposed these plans because they were afraid of what might happen.

The story is not unique. I have come across similar stories from other places.

I’m just conjecturing here, but maybe the gargoyles were something similar. The medievil builders didn’t have software or advanced mathematics to simulate the static and dynamic stability of what they were building. Many of the great cathedrals did actually collapse during construction or shortly after completion, and the builders had to change their plans and start over. I would not entirely exclude that some of the stone masons did not in fact ask dark forces for assistance in completing their work after multiple failures.
 
The story is not unique. I have come across similar stories from other places.

I’m just conjecturing here, but maybe the gargoyles were something similar. The medievil builders didn’t have software or advanced mathematics to simulate the static and dynamic stability of what they were building. Many of the great cathedrals did actually collapse during construction or shortly after completion, and the builders had to change their plans and start over. I would not entirely exclude that some of the stone masons did not in fact ask dark forces for assistance in completing their work after multiple failures.
Thanks for the legend and your comments! Reading it sure brought back old thoughts. Years ago, I read a story called, “The Walled-Up Wife” aka “The Building of Skadar”. I tried to find the site where I found the whole ballad originally, but can now only find e-Google book portions.

Dug out my copy and it had two interesting notes: “Is Genesis missing a chapter?” and "Kolbrin Bible: Holy Spirit: “Without Me, no thing holds to its shape.”

I don’t know how this ballad itself could still be under copyright as it is from the 1800s.

The Walled-up Wife: A Casebook - edited by Alan Dundes

books.google.com/books?id=MDmGX5y40IwC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

I’ve typed out the omitted verses and put them in the next post. If the mods think it is a violation of copyright to put the ballad lines only (not commentary) here, then they can be deleted.

Hope others find it interesting as well - I’ve certainly enjoyed revisiting this strange ballad.🙂
 
(140)
“O listen now, my dear young queen:
With joy would I grant your request,
But I must bathe my infant son,
And I must wash his fine white clothes.”
Then speaks to her Vukasin’s queen:
(145)
“My dear young sister, go at once,
And bring the men their daily meal.
For I will wash your son’s white clothes,
And bathe with care your infant son.”
The bride of Gojko falters not,
(150)
She brings the men their daily meal.
When she does reach Bojana’s shore,
Young Gojko sees his young love there.
The hero’s heart is filled with pain,
He sorrows for his faithful wife,
(155)
He sorrows for his cradled son—
An orphan of a month of days—
And from his face the tears spill down.
Upon him looks his slender bride,
With slow, shy steps she reaches him,
(160)
With slow, shy steps; then softly speaks:
“What ails you so, my dearest lord,
That down your cheek those tears should flow?”
Then Gojko answers his young bride:
“An evil day, my faithful love!”
(165)
A golden apple I once had,
Into Bojana’s depths it fell.
I grieve for this—my pain won’t heal.”
She fathoms not, his slender bride,
And to her young lord gently speaks:
(170)
Ask God instead to grant you health.
A better apple—you will find.”
In deepest grief the hero then,
In pain, must turn his face away,
To look no more upon his love.

(175)
Here two Mrljavcerici come—
Young Gojko’s older brothers come.
They take the bride by her white hand;
They lead her off to be immured.
Now Rada, master builder comes,
(180)
And calls to him three hundred men.
Yet still she smiles, the slender bride,
She thinks it all a playful jest.
They place her in a gaping hole,
Three hundred artisans beat down,
(185)
Beat down the wood, and beat the stones,
And build a wall up to her knees:
But still she smiles, the slender bride:
Believes it all to be a jest.
(190)
Beat down the wood, and beat the stones,
And build the wall up to her waist;
When heavy grew thee wood and stones,
She see, poor one, what they will do:
An angry snake in anger screams!
(195)
She begs young Gojko’s brothers two:
“Do not give me, if you know God!
Do not immure a green young bride!”
She pleads but all to no avail,
Upon her they refuse to look.
(200)
Now shame and modesty are gone,
Her own young lord she now implores:
“Do not give me, my dearest lord!
I am so young, immure me not!
To my old mother go instead,
(205)
My mother has great stores of gold,
A slave or slave girl she will buy,
To be immured in Skadar’s walls”
She pleads but all to no avail.
And when the slender bride has seen
(210)
That all her pleas will bring no change,
She begs the master builder then:
“O brother, Rada, hear, by God!
A window for my bosom leave,
Draw out for me my two white breasts,
(215)
So when my tiny Jovo comes,
He still can suckle from my breasts.”
As brother Rada grants her plea,
And leaves a window for her breasts;
Into the light he draws her breasts,
(220)
So when her tiny Jovo comes,
He still can suckle from her breasts.
Once more the grieved one speaks to him:
“O brother Rada, hear, by God!
And leave a window for my eyes.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top