Notre Dame Shame

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Secret_Square said:
Is there some reason to assume that EVERY single member of the ND Board of Directors agrees with this action? That’s a fairly big group. I doubt very much that they all approved of this action or even knew about it ahead of time.

The reason Bishop Jenky sits on the board of directors, I assume, is because he is a member of the Congregation of Holy Cross and was a chaplain at Notre Dame for many years before he came to Peoria. I have not yet heard of his official reaction to this development, but I have a hard time believing he would approve of it in any way. I used to live in the Diocese of Peoria and never knew him to be anything but very orthodox.
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The more I think about it, the more I agree with this statement. Bishop Jenky is a very good Bishop. I was just sort of interested in why he has not issued a statement either for or against when two other Bishops, one being the current Diocesean Bishop, have issued statements. He may be in a situation to where it would be counter productive to his role in working with the Board to see “change” occur in this “sort of Catholic” institution. I know many good things as well as people come from Notre Dame. I just have a hard time justifying the action of his invitation.
 
What angers me…

This is on the heels of Nancy Pelosi’s trip to see the Pope…
Pope Benedict handled that situation beautifully… now YET another story of confused Catholics.
 
I must confess that am quite shocked and a bit confused about why everyone is so upset about our first African American President being invited to Notre Dame. Yes, I know that the pro-life movement is upset over his pro-choice stance, and I know that the Church considers abortion to be a terrible thing. I agree with this, and hope that abortion will also become illegal in the United States.

What upsets me the most, however, is that this one issue has completely dominated his visit. I have yet to hear anyone discuss the benefits of his coming to Notre Dame. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if we had more African American catholics in America? Isn’t it wonderful that an entire generation of African American children can now really believe they can attend elite universities, and ultimately be President? Can we not celebrate a President who is committed to ending war, combatting poverty, creating universal health care and uplifting education?

As an inner city school teacher, I have seen thousands of youth affected by gun violence, gangs, and drugs. Gun violence is the leading cause of death among African American men, and HIV is spreading like wildfire among African American and Latino women. Why cannot we, as Catholics, embrace the good that this man stands for? Why is everyone focused on making his visit to Notre Dame the most terrible thing that could happen, and not see it for the good that could result from it?

I know that I am in the minority with my viewpoint, and am sure I will be lambasted to kingdom come. However, there are many Catholics that are as disheartened by the negativity that my Catholic brothers and sisters are spreading about this invitation as I am, and it needs to end. Pamela
 
pbyeerts said:
I must confess that am quite shocked and a bit confused about why everyone is so upset about our first African American President being invited to Notre Dame. Yes, I know that the pro-life movement is upset over his pro-choice stance, and I know that the Church considers abortion to be a terrible thing. I agree with this, and hope that abortion will also become illegal in the United States.

What upsets me the most, however, is that this one issue has completely dominated his visit. I have yet to hear anyone discuss the benefits of his coming to Notre Dame. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if we had more African American catholics in America? Isn’t it wonderful that an entire generation of African American children can now really believe they can attend elite universities, and ultimately be President? Can we not celebrate a President who is committed to ending war, combatting poverty, creating universal health care and uplifting education?

As an inner city school teacher, I have seen thousands of youth affected by gun violence, gangs, and drugs. Gun violence is the leading cause of death among African American men, and HIV is spreading like wildfire among African American and Latino women. Why cannot we, as Catholics, embrace the good that this man stands for? Why is everyone focused on making his visit to Notre Dame the most terrible thing that could happen, and not see it for the good that could result from it?

I know that I am in the minority with my viewpoint, and am sure I will be lambasted to kingdom come. However, there are many Catholics that are as disheartened by the negativity that my Catholic brothers and sisters are spreading about this invitation as I am, and it needs to end. Pamela
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And how many African American unborn babies are aborted in inner cities?
 
pbyeerts said:
I must confess that am quite shocked and a bit confused about why everyone is so upset about our first African American President being invited to Notre Dame. Yes, I know that the pro-life movement is upset over his pro-choice stance, and I know that the Church considers abortion to be a terrible thing. I agree with this, and hope that abortion will also become illegal in the United States.

What upsets me the most, however, is that this one issue has completely dominated his visit. Pamela
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Abortion is an issue that COMPLETELY dominates the life of those little children who are brutally killed in the womb. It is about time we all realized that what is happening is so much worse than the death-camps in Nazi Germany. And yes, I am comparing our current president with Hitler.
 
I think the positives you point out are well taken and yes, I think it would be wonderful if more people of all races embodied the faith of the church.

I think that if Obama ends the war, he should be applauded for that as well. Gun violence, that as well.

But when I say more people understanding the faith, you would also need to look at the one core component of our faith. That all people, born and unborn, are entitled to life and love.

Even though other presidents were very much responsible for sending troops into harms way, you would have a hard time finding one saying that dying on a battlefield is a good thing or a positive. Obama on the other hand has never stated that about abortion, but he in turn supports the NEEDLESS death of the children.

When all is said and done, I can’t say that I disagree with you on the positives that Obama has the opportunity to change in our country. However, with life itself being such a core component, how can we give him his platform?
 
Someone who advocates the MURDER of babies… sends our tax dollars around the world to murder babies will never have my respect…EVER.
 
pbyeerts said:
I must confess that am quite shocked and a bit confused about why everyone is so upset about our first African American President being invited to Notre Dame. Yes, I know that the pro-life movement is upset over his pro-choice stance, and I know that the Church considers abortion to be a terrible thing. I agree with this, and hope that abortion will also become illegal in the United States.

What upsets me the most, however, is that this one issue has completely dominated his visit. I have yet to hear anyone discuss the benefits of his coming to Notre Dame. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if we had more African American catholics in America? Isn’t it wonderful that an entire generation of African American children can now really believe they can attend elite universities, and ultimately be President? Can we not celebrate a President who is committed to ending war, combating poverty, creating universal health care and uplifting education?

As an inner city school teacher, I have seen thousands of youth affected by gun violence, gangs, and drugs. Gun violence is the leading cause of death among African American men, and HIV is spreading like wildfire among African American and Latino women. Why cannot we, as Catholics, embrace the good that this man stands for? Why is everyone focused on making his visit to Notre Dame the most terrible thing that could happen, and not see it for the good that could result from it?

I know that I am in the minority with my viewpoint, and am sure I will be lambasted to kingdom come. However, there are many Catholics that are as disheartened by the negativity that my Catholic brothers and sisters are spreading about this invitation as I am, and it needs to end. Pamela
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Pam you are confusing a number issues here. Skin color has NOTHING whatsoever to do with anything Catholic. Catholics are UNIVERSAL in reach and scope and do not even see skin color in our priests and bishops and laity - its just not an issue to us.

What IS an issue is that the leader of the free world happens to be THE WORST EVER PRO-DEATH advocate that the free world has EVER seen. Obama is a man who’s #1 responsibility is to PROTECT AND DEFEND the life of all the nations citizens - from youngest to eldest. Yet, one of the VERY FIRST things this man has done with his power is to declare open season on killing children through abortion not only here but also in foreign countries with US taxpayer money. THIS MAN forces YOU and ME and EVERYONE to labor and give our wages to help participate in KILLING INNOCENT LIFE. That makes us ALL culpable to God for murder of the most innocent of all life - children in the womb who are utterly defenseless. If Obama can not protect the most innocent of life why would anyone expect this man to protect them from our other enemies?

The issue here is that ND is widely seen by the secular world as a leading CATHOLIC institution. We Catholics know it is A FALSE PERCEPTION since they stopped holding Catholic values decades ago. Yet we Catholics seem to be talking out of both sides of our mouths since ND has an ORDAINED PRIEST sitting as its head and Catholic religious on its Board of Directors. OBAMA is a man who is in the person STANDS AGAINST the dearest of all Catholic STRUGGLES (protecting innocent life). ND was instrumental in giving this country the laws to outlaw race discrimination which made it possible for a black man to become this country’s leader. HOW IRONIC THAT ND now wants to claim as its first major success a black man who condones murder of children! It is an OUTRAGE to Catholics. Satan must be laughing like crazy - we Catholics were instrumental in helping the black man rise in dignity and Obama is the very first black man who attains that presidential authority only to use it to expand murder of innocents. Now he is threatening with FOCA to undo 30 years of hard battled Catholic gains in pro-life with a simple stroke of the pen - a FINE THANK-YOU to Catholics who made it possible for him to rise to the nation’s highest honor.

And now ND wants to embrace him publicly as if a friend and esteemed friend of Catholics! OMG - what outrage! This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that grave evil has penetrated deeply into Catholic strongholds that are shaping our future and feeding our priesthood. This is a wake-up call and could be the opening shot in a radical revolution within the American Catholic Church.

It’s time to clean house and start triage - and fast.

James
 
We should not compare people. We should only understand that certain actions of individuals create a society of death and evil.
 
Many thanks - that respecfully helps to explain it better for me.

P.
DonCochran said:
I think the positives you point out are well taken and yes, I think it would be wonderful if more people of all races embodied the faith of the church.

I think that if Obama ends the war, he should be applauded for that as well. Gun violence, that as well.

But when I say more people understanding the faith, you would also need to look at the one core component of our faith. That all people, born and unborn, are entitled to life and love.

Even though other presidents were very much responsible for sending troops into harms way, you would have a hard time finding one saying that dying on a battlefield is a good thing or a positive. Obama on the other hand has never stated that about abortion, but he in turn supports the NEEDLESS death of the children.

When all is said and done, I can’t say that I disagree with you on the positives that Obama has the opportunity to change in our country. However, with life itself being such a core component, how can we give him his platform?
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Teacher and Foster Parent here as well, so I see things that many turn a blind eye to as well. However, I will go to my grave doing all I can for all people to be entitled to life.
 
jkarp said:
The bishops have stated (as was previously posted to this thread) that supporting politicians like Obama is not to be permitted; it seems that aligning oneself with a group who stands in direct opposition of the bishops of the Church is a pretty bad idea.
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Correction: SOME bishops have stated. And that’s their personal opinion which they are entitled to and which should be listened to respectfully.

The US Bishops, as a conference, all of them together, approved their teaching which does not say politicians like Obama cannot be supported. It does lay out the principles upon which Catholics should exercise their roles in the political life of the country.

That teaching is available on their web site faithfulcitizenship.org/

I’d encourage anyone who thinks the Church says that someone could not in good conscience have voted for Obama to read and understand that.
 
diggerdomer said:
Correction: SOME bishops have stated. And that’s their personal opinion which they are entitled to and which should be listened to respectfully.

The US Bishops, as a conference, all of them together, approved their teaching which does not say politicians like Obama cannot be supported. It does lay out the principles upon which Catholics should exercise their roles in the political life of the country.

That teaching is available on their web site faithfulcitizenship.org/

I’d encourage anyone who thinks the Church says that someone could not in good conscience have voted for Obama to read and understand that.
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Hey, you’re free to support and honor those who actively work to kill children; I refuse to support them and I absolutely refuse to honor them.
 
diggerdomer said:
Correction: SOME bishops have stated. And that’s their personal opinion which they are entitled to and which should be listened to respectfully.

The US Bishops, as a conference, all of them together, approved their teaching which does not say politicians like Obama cannot be supported. It does lay out the principles upon which Catholics should exercise their roles in the political life of the country.

That teaching is available on their web site faithfulcitizenship.org/

I’d encourage anyone who thinks the Church says that someone could not in good conscience have voted for Obama to read and understand that.
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Having read Faithful Citizenship '08 (and '04 and '00 and so on back), I find it trivially easy to read it as saying that it is impossible to support a pro-abortion politician in the absence of proportionate issues (e.g. imminent nuclear war), and really quite difficult to read it as saying that you can. So, no, I don’t think a Catholic, even following the often vague teaching of Faithful Citizenship can, in good conscience, vote for Pres. Obama or anyone like him.

How are you construing it?
 
Wowbagger said:
Here’s the problem with that petition. It reads, in part: “Presidents have addressed such essential issues as international affairs, peace building, poverty, and human rights.”

But “human rights” is the opposite of what President Obama stands for. So it seems that your own petition shoots itself in the foot.

Unless you’re one of those unusual fringe atheists who don’t believe in human rights at all, but only pragmatic social contracts… but that’s not what your profile says about your religion.

Anyway… I’ve no idea how we hope to take back these Boards. We handed over control of Catholic institutions to rich, white, upper-middle-class Catholics In Name Only a generation ago. We no longer have power, leverage, or money to take back our hallowed halls. Only thing left to do that I can see is take away their Catholic charter, which remains, in nearly all cases, the right of the local ordinary. See how they like THAT! 😛
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Without the Catholic “brand” Notre Dame will quickly become just another two-bit, formerly religious school, like SMU.
 
Wowbagger said:
Having read Faithful Citizenship '08 (and '04 and '00 and so on back), I find it trivially easy to read it as saying that it is impossible to support a pro-abortion politician in the absence of proportionate issues (e.g. imminent nuclear war), and really quite difficult to read it as saying that you can. So, no, I don’t think a Catholic, even following the often vague teaching of Faithful Citizenship can, in good conscience, vote for Pres. Obama or anyone like him.

How are you construing it?
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I think many Catholic decided to make capital punishment/the war more important than abortion. To many Catholic, abortion is somewhat like having sex out of marriage: something to be tut-tutted rather than abhored. Fact is the abortion is essential if women are to have sex as freely as men without consequence. Human perversity is such as that many women are like gays,and a lot of straight guys, willing to go bareback just to demonstrate their freedom from any constraint they don’t place on themselves. There is also, with the stigma against single motherhood removed, a desire to have
a child to raise without interference from a man.
 
diggerdomer said:
Correction: SOME bishops have stated. And that’s their personal opinion which they are entitled to and which should be listened to respectfully.

The US Bishops, as a conference, all of them together, approved their teaching which does not say politicians like Obama cannot be supported. It does lay out the principles upon which Catholics should exercise their roles in the political life of the country.

That teaching is available on their web site faithfulcitizenship.org/

I’d encourage anyone who thinks the Church says that someone could not in good conscience have voted for Obama to read and understand that.
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No doubt that there is a division among the bishops, the USCCB being very much a POLIITICAL rather than a religious body.
 
I want to be clear about one thing, I would not have invited Obama. What I don’t understand is why many who are upset about Obama’s visit aren’t as upset about all the federal money and grants all Catholic schools get. Federal aid of one form or another keeps every Catholic school in business. How can you complain when the President comes to speak (this is NOT about Obama, it’s about the PRESIDENT) and yet you don’t mind taking all the federal dollars that you can get? Stop taking federal aid!!! How is it that it’s ok to take Caesar’s checks, but it’s not ok to let him come visit? The issue is not just Obama’s stand on abortion or anything else, it’s the government’s stand. If you really want to protest, then show Uncles Sam, send his tax dollars back!!! 😉
 
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