Novus Ordo Charismatic Services

[Norseman82]

Not everything protestant is wrong. Follow the advice of 1 John 4:1 regarding “testing the spirits”. If it is wrong, don’t follow it; if it leads to one being a better Catholic, embrace it. Simple solution.

 

[368ofk]

Hay y’all. The mass is not a me and God thing. It is an us and God thing. Did you know that a priest is not to say the mass if there is no one in attendance. So much for me and God…

This all depends what you consider to be “no one”. The Missa Sine Populo assumes that a server is present…

So, while it’s POSSIBLE for Mass to be celebrated without a server, it certainly should NOT be done without a very good reason.

Right. So, in reference to the original statement in question, it really depends on what was meant by “is not to”.

I feel like Bill Clinton, questioning what the meaning of “is” is.

In the context of the post, though, I interpreted the argument to be that a congregation must be present for a Mass to be offered. And, that didn’t ring true to me at all. So, I looked it up to make sure I wasn’t completely off base.

The bottom line, though, is that a congregation is not mandated. And, in cases of absolute necessity, Mass may be offered in the absence of a server.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I’m gonna just sit back and watch y’all discuss this one.
Deacon Ed B

 

[latinmasslover]

Plenty go, and admit it openly as the reason, for how it makes them feel.

They like the drama of it, the spectacle, the sense of separation from community, a sense of “otherworldliness” etc.

Same behavior - different preferences.

In other words, they go because it’s reverent and the focus is on the Crucified, not how good God can make us feel. It’s more than just a different preference.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

In other words, they go because it’s reverent and the focus is on the Crucified, not how good God can make us feel. It’s more than just a different preference.

No – some very specifically say how this makes them feel good.

Makes them FEEL closer to God.

Makes them FEEL .

For some it is a different preference (perhaps with a holier than thou flavor?).

 

[latinmasslover]

No – some very specifically say how this makes them feel good.

Makes them FEEL closer to God.

Makes them FEEL .

For some it is a different preference (perhaps with a holier than thou flavor?).

The fact is that the TLM is focusing on God. Anyone who feels it’s a holier than thou issue is likely not living as they’re supposed to. That accusation gets thrown out only when someone is called on the carpet, so to speak.

It makes them feel closer to God because the TLM is entirely focused on God (as the NO is in some cases, should be in all). The focus is not on making the community feel good, as is the case with the Charismatic Movement. The CM is about feelings…the Mass is about God. The CM produces a nice rush, I won’t deny that, but it can make us dependent on those good feelings for our spirituality.

My main problem with the CM is how it’s infiltrated the Mass. Mass is the time for reverence and solemnity and focusing on the Crucified. Outside of Mass is another issue. Of course, I could pop in a caffeine pill and get the same effect that the CM is supposed to give. Just my experience there.

 

[po18guy]

I am getting tired. This same kind of thread has been popping up over and over with the same (some not as bad, some worse) description of Catholic Charismatics, by people saying they are trying to understand it. I honestly think its some of the same ones comming back under a different name, just to start it over. I have been Charismatic since the early 80"s. I still am waiting to hear pigs squeel as he said, ot as others have said, barking like dogs. I guess if you dont understand them or know about them, you just riducule them. We have seen that many times in Church history before. Look around CAF for some of the other threads. You will find the same things discussed to the extreme, some with common sense and others with, well…Deacon Ed B.

Amen, Deacon! I have been to charismatic renewal events, during one of which I experienced the most spirit-filled reconciliation of my life. After I was baptized in the Holy Spirit, my faith life just ignited. I use my gift to provide hope to those without it, calling all to turn from sin and embrace the Lord. “You will know them by their fruits”. Well, I have lost all fear of sharing my faith. Seems like this passes the fruits test.

Yes, some of these threads are tiring, like the “whore of Babylon” threads and all of the others. However, we turn souls one at a time, and I have had some darned decent conversations with Protestants here.

The Lord will renew us.

Christ’s peace.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

The fact is that the TLM is focusing on God. Anyone who feels it’s a holier than thou issue is likely not living as they’re supposed to. That accusation gets thrown out only when someone is called on the carpet, so to speak.

It makes them feel closer to God because the TLM is entirely focused on God (as the NO is in some cases, should be in all). The focus is not on making the community feel good, as is the case with the Charismatic Movement. The CM is about feelings…the Mass is about God. The CM produces a nice rush, I won’t deny that, but it can make us dependent on those good feelings for our spirituality.

My main problem with the CM is how it’s infiltrated the Mass. Mass is the time for reverence and solemnity and focusing on the Crucified. Outside of Mass is another issue. Of course, I could pop in a caffeine pill and get the same effect that the CM is supposed to give. Just my experience there.

There are folks focusing on how one form of the mass makes them FEEL - if the form is TLM then it is ok but if it is anything else it isn’t??

I don’t think so.

Some get the same experience of being closer and more focused on God from Catholic Charismatic Masses as others get it from the TLM.

 

[PapaBennySix]

There are folks focusing on how one form of the mass makes them FEEL - if the form is TLM then it is ok but if it is anything else it isn’t??

I don’t think so.

Some get the same experience of being closer and more focused on God from Catholic Charismatic Masses as others get it from the TLM.

Get back to the basics for just a moment- Catholics have never been into feeling good about it… they either have to grace to stop offending our Lord by sinning or not. If you are feeling high on God and in a state of Mortal Sin, like you went to the club the night before and lusted after some woman, and have not gone to confession, but you feel like you are OK, you ain’t!

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Get back to the basics for just a moment- Catholics have never been into feeling good about it… they either have to grace to stop offending our Lord by sinning or not. If you are feeling high on God and in a state of Mortal Sin, like you went to the club the night before and lusted after some woman, and have not gone to confession, but you feel like you are OK, you ain’t!

I am not sure what you mean with this post.

Are you equating Catholic Charismatic services and masses with mortal sin and not going to confession?

 

[otjm]

Not so with the TLM. People attend the Old Rite because of the reverence shown to Almighty God, not for feel-good ecstasies. There’s a big difference.

The feel good response to the TLM is all over these threads; the people who have the feel good feeling call it reverence.

Feeling reverence is not wrong. I am not belittleing it; but to say that people don’t feel good with this feeling of reverence, that they don’t seek it further and mroe often, is to simply ignore what they say. And reverence is often referred to as an ecstacy. You simply wnat to use the term feel good as a negative, in particular because you prefer the TLM. Preferring it, feeling reverence, feeling good about gfeeling reverence is fine. Just be honest about it.
Its ok. Really.

 

[Pope_Noah_I]

I salute you for saying this!!!

Last time I mentioned anything close to it (specifically JPII praying in tongues - the gibberish kind) I was told I was lying and no way any such thing would have/could have happened.

When did that happen?

 

[368ofk]

The feel good response to the TLM is all over these threads; the people who have the feel good feeling call it reverence.

Feeling reverence is not wrong. I am not belittleing it; but to say that people don’t feel good with this feeling of reverence, that they don’t seek it further and mroe often, is to simply ignore what they say. And reverence is often referred to as an ecstacy. You simply wnat to use the term feel good as a negative, in particular because you prefer the TLM. Preferring it, feeling reverence, feeling good about gfeeling reverence is fine. Just be honest about it.
Its ok. Really.

Obviously, I can’t speak for everyone. But, even though I’m a strong adherent of the TLM, I do not get a “feel good” feeling out of the Mass. Rather, I obtain a profound sense of humility, regret for my past sins, determination to avoid future sins, and a deep love for God.

Not once has any of this led me to jump up and down, wave my arms, clap, or shout during The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. And, I’ve never witnessed that type of behavior from any of my fellow parishioners, either. So, it ain’t just me.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Obviously, I can’t speak for everyone. But, even though I’m a strong adherent of the TLM, I do not get a “feel good” feeling out of the Mass. Rather, I obtain a profound sense of humility, regret for my past sins, determination to avoid future sins, and a deep love for God.

Not once has any of this led me to jump up and down, wave my arms, clap, or shout during The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. And, I’ve never witnessed that type of behavior from any of my fellow parishioners, either. So, it ain’t just me.

I have noticed some adherents of the TLM ‘bliss out’ over it.

All “I was in Heaven with the angels” kind of stuff.

While they would never jump up and down, wave their arms, clap or shout they would talk and look like the stereotype of the opera lover.

 

[latinmasslover]

I have noticed some adherents of the TLM ‘bliss out’ over it.

All “I was in Heaven with the angels” kind of stuff.

While they would never jump up and down, wave their arms, clap or shout they would talk and look like the stereotype of the opera lover.

But do they “bliss out” *during *the Holy Sacrifice, or are they focused on what’s going on at the altar?

And when did JPII speak in tongues? I’m not being argumentative, I’ve just never heard of him doing that.

 

[368ofk]

I have noticed some adherents of the TLM ‘bliss out’ over it.

All “I was in Heaven with the angels” kind of stuff.

While they would never jump up and down, wave their arms, clap or shout they would talk and look like the stereotype of the opera lover.

I find it hard to believe that a significant fraction of Catholics who attend Traditional Latin Mass regard the re-presentation of Jesus Christ’s death on the cross with the same emotions that would be evoked were they to attend an opera.

The Mass is not an entertainment production that’s performed for the amusement of the congregants. And, the TLM tends to attract Catholics who are fully aware of what is taking place before them upon the altar. So, I highly doubt that many people are attending this Mass because they see it as some sort of “show”.

But, just to be sure, I’ll pay attention next Sunday and see if anyone whips out a pair of opera glasses.

 

[CradleCath]

I have noticed some adherents of the TLM ‘bliss out’ over it.

All “I was in Heaven with the angels” kind of stuff.

While they would never jump up and down, wave their arms, clap or shout they would talk and look like the stereotype of the opera lover.

Please share with us what the stereotype of an opera lover looks & sounds like. I can’t hardly WAIT to hear this one.

And, your definition of ‘Bliss out’???

btw., What exactly “kind of stuff” is “I was in Heaven, etc.”???

A good laugh is always beneficial for eveyone concerned! Thanks!!!

 

[Flame_of_Christ]

The focus is not on making the community feel good, as is the case with the Charismatic Movement. The CM is about feelings…the Mass is about God. The CM produces a nice rush, I won’t deny that, but it can make us dependent on those good feelings for our spirituality.

I have heard these accusations before but I stil am not sure how anyone can honestly make them.

When I sing “Praise you Jesus” to the Lord, I don’t think that is about feelings. That is about Praising God! wow.

When in mass when we sing to God and praise Him, yeah that is about God. I still can’t understand that people believe that it is wrong to praise God and to Thank Him with praises. Maybe they think thta God is not worthy or that He would be offended if we praised Him?

I dunno what you are talking about people.

So when we pray in the psalms “clap you hands Jerusalem” and “sing Joyfully all you His people” and then we actaully do that! wow, somebody gets offended. Well at least God isn’t offended! LOL He is the one who is telling us to do this after all!

 

[latinmasslover]

I have heard these accusations before but I stil am not sure how anyone can honestly make them.

When I sing “Praise you Jesus” to the Lord, I don’t think that is about feelings. That is about Praising God! wow.

When in mass when we sing to God and praise Him, yeah that is about God. I still can’t understand that people believe that it is wrong to praise God and to Thank Him with praises. Maybe they think thta God is not worthy or that He would be offended if we praised Him?

I dunno what you are talking about people.

So when we pray in the psalms “clap you hands Jerusalem” and “sing Joyfully all you His people” and then we actaully do that! wow, somebody gets offended. Well at least God isn’t offended! LOL He is the one who is telling us to do this after all!

You do not think that the Father would be offended to see the disciples jumping for joy at the Crucifixion?

Look at the behavior of the Virgin Mary, St. John, and the precious Magdalene…Were they clapping their hands shouting “Praise God, sin is forgiven!” The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is just that: The Holy Sacrifice. If you were present at the Crucifixion, I highly doubt that you’d be wanting to sing the joyful-happy songs.

They do have a place, and there is nothing wrong with praising God with those songs, I personally enjoy a lot of them; however, many are not *appropriate *for the **Sacrifice **of the Mass, praiseworthy though they may be.

 

[CradleCath]

They do have a place, and there is nothing wrong with praising God with those songs, I personally enjoy a lot of them; however, many are not *appropriate *for the **Sacrifice **of the Mass, praiseworthy though they may be.

I agree. Think about it, there are those who claim that praying the rosary during Mass distracts…not only the person praying it, but also those sitting close to that person. I agree BTW.

Some of these same people see nothing wrong with praying ALOUD in what amts. to gibberish for those around them. How is this called “participating” in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass??