Novus Ordo Mass

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The Pope has always celebrated Mass in St. Peter’s “facing the people”, tho that wasn’t the intent. They didn’t flip the altar after the Council. That’s the way the basillica was built.

History didn’t begin in 1970. :nope:
 
Hey…never thought about that…Dr. Bombay…you are always such an enlightened voice…I bow down to you. :bowdown:
Dr. Bombay:
The Pope has always celebrated Mass in St. Peter’s “facing the people”, tho that wasn’t the intent. They didn’t flip the altar after the Council. That’s the way the basillica was built.

History didn’t begin in 1970. :nope:
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dumspirospero:
Hey…never thought about that…Dr. Bombay…you are always such an enlightened voice…I bow down to you. :bowdown:
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Excellent. When We bring back the throne, you can be a throne-bearer. 👍
 
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dumspirospero:
Hey…never thought about that…Dr. Bombay…you are always such an enlightened voice…I bow down to you. :bowdown:
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Then join his fan club.

It’s simple to join. All you have to do is put something to the effect of “Member of Dr. Bombay Fan Club” in your sig.

We are a quickly growing group.

God bless,

James
 
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James0235:
Then join his fan club.

It’s simple to join. All you have to do is put something to the effect of “Member of Dr. Bombay Fan Club” in your sig.

We are a quickly growing group.

God bless,

James
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(Note to self: Reorganize my fan club into the new Galactic Empire, with me as Emperor for Life! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!)

Wait a minute…did I type that or just think it??? :confused:
 
Dr. Bombay said:
(Note to self: Reorganize OUR fan club into the new Galactic Empire, with US as Emperor for Life! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!)

Wait a minute…did WE type that or just think it??? :confused:
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Dr. Bombay:
Excellent. When We bring back the throne, you can be a throne-bearer. 👍
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Dibs on being the cowled friar that stomps around in front of you, wafting burning flax, and growling," Sic transit gloria mundi!"
 
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AMDG1:
How about:
  1. “Table” instead of “Altar”
  2. “Fellow Christians” instead of “Fellow Catholics” (Priest addressing the parish)
  3. Shorter Eucharistic prayers to create more time for “preaching”
  4. Priest instructing parishoners to hold hands with each other during the Our Father (not a big deal I suppose but kindof liberal)
  5. Baptisms being partially performed in the middle of Mass with parishoners “laying on their hands”
The point is…the Pauline Mass as originally intended is fine in my book. The problem is that there have been many liberalizations of the Mass of the ages…some of which have been invented by local priests, others created or endorsed (I presume) by our American bishops. Seems to me that this is a somewhat concerted effort (I’ll give benefit of the doubt that it’s not an organized one) to move the American Catholic tradition closer to the evangical protestant denominations. The focus is now on “community”…the priest as a fellow “participant” in the Mass…and the celebration of the Eucharist de-emphasized in rubric and prayer such that the homily (now more of a “stand-up” routine by priests parading back and forth in front of the “table”) has equal prominence with the Eucharist. No wonder there seem to be more and more of the faithful showing interest in the TLM ! Seems to me that there is a growing interest in a more “traditional” or “orthodox” celebration of the Mass as a result of the above (in my experience with younger people in their 20’s and 30’s too)…even while the “progressives” (or “liberals”) are interjecting even more “reforms” to the Pauline Mass. Not a good state of affairs for the Church…I can only hope and pray that our Church leaders will find a way to bring the two groups together more effectively so that traditionalists don’t continue to turn to the SSPX or other schismatic groups for lack of better alternatives within the legitimate Church.
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But weren’t these changes all made with the whole community aspect in mind? I recall that there was a lot of stuff about returning to a purer form of Christianity, communal meal setting, universal priesthood etc. If those were the goals of the second vatican Council, haven’t they been pretty much met?
 
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warrior71:
But weren’t these changes all made with the whole community aspect in mind? I recall that there was a lot of stuff about returning to a purer form of Christianity, communal meal setting, universal priesthood etc. If those were the goals of the second vatican Council, haven’t they been pretty much met?
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That is just about the definition of the “Spirit of Vatican II”
 
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JKirkLVNV:
Dibs on being the cowled friar that stomps around in front of you, wafting burning flax, and growling," Sic transit gloria mundi!"
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DOH! I wanted that job.

Dibs on being the the alternate cowled friar that stomps around in front of you, wafting burning flax, and growling," Sic transit gloria mundi!"

Should the cowled friar be unable to perform his duties for any reason then I will be prepared to step in and do so.

James
 
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JKirkLVNV:
Dibs on being the cowled friar that stomps around in front of you, wafting burning flax, and growling," Sic transit gloria mundi!"
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We put the kibosh on that idea. Your job is to repeat “Domine non sum dignus” over and over, accompanied by much breast beating, as penance for your transgressions and a reminder of your unworthiness to be in Our presence.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
I apologize for missing the first two, the third is about parisioners laying hands not the Baptism during mass.
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Wow. I’ve made only 2 previous posts but that last one sure did garner a lot of debate.

Lots of arguing on this one so what the heck…I’ll through another log potentially on the fire.

You’re right - I prefer a Mass that looks like the one I remember as a kid in 1970…it’s just that - a preference. It grates on me when I see/experience some of the things referenced in Dumspiro’s and my earlier posts. Some of them are trivial indeed and not worth losing any sleep over. Others however when practiced together cause a fundamental shift in the focus of the Mass (my opinion of course). No criticism per se on parish priests - I know they have a difficult job and are doing what they believe is right for them and their parishes…and doing so with all the right intentions. The result however…for me…is that today’s Masses just don’t seem as focused on the Celebration of the Eucharist as the 1970 Mass was (for many of the reasons cited in the earlier posts). And isn’t that what differentiates Catholics from other denominations?

Many of the liberalizations cited are perfectly acceptable and obviously practiced by our Bishops, Cardinals and as you pointed out the Pope himself. I didn’t see the Papal Mass you referenced but I suspect it was still mostly a more “traditional” Pauline Mass.

The problem with all of this is that (as Dumspiro pointed out):
  • The Church has accommodated lots of “special interest” groups…so they can more enthusiastically bring their hearts and minds to the Mass. People in search of a more “traditional” Mass are generally pretty much out of luck. Local parish priests aren’t too receptive to offering one (thinking that they won’t draw enough of a crowd to make it worthwhile…can’t fault their logic although I suspect that in my town such a Mass would draw in people from surrounding parishes too - more “money found” for our parish). I fortunately have the option of more traditional Masses…but that’s either a TLM Mass or a Pauline entirely in Latin – both 20 miles from my home. So I go to my local “progressive” church 1 mile away and then watch the EWTN Mass at night.
  • I do believe that there is a growing number of Catholics interested in a more traditional Mass (a-la the 1970 Pauline Mass)…and not just the old folks - people in their 20’s and 30’s too. I have no data to support this…just anecdotal evidence I’ve gleaned in talking to people. The Church and the faithful can either dismiss them and say “get over it”…or help keep them engaged in the faith by helping provide a more traditional option. Just like offering a Folk Mass, parishes should be able to offer a 1970 style Mass once a weekend too - and maybe keep more people engaged…and brought closer to God and the Church through their expression of faith in a more traditional setting. That can’t be so bad and it sure beats losing any more people to the schismatic sects.
By the way…as for my comment about baptisms during Mass and “laying on of hands”…I may have used the wrong terminology – the priest invites people to give a communal “blessing” to the baby and the congregation outstretch their hands. Looks spooky to me and kindof hokey too. And again, I personally don’t like it because it’s yet another distraction of why we’re there on Sunday. Save it for a full baptismal rite with family and friends that really care and have an ability to truly impact the child’s life directly and substantively.

Dissenting views from the above are encouraged and I look forward to reading them.
 
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MrS:
I noticed that the good Dr. is not a member of his fan club… is that so he can claim and not share the royalties from concession sales?
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Shhhh! Don’t say anything. You’re gonna get me kicked out of the club. I’ve been keeping the concession sales for myself.

Actually, I’ve been following the example of the parable of the talents from the Gospels and I am going to double the profits from concessions before turning them over to the Doc. Yeah. That’s it. That’s my story.

James
 
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MrS:
I noticed that the good Dr. is not a member of his fan club… is that so he can claim and not share the royalties from concession sales?
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Although We confess a certain love for Our exalted Self, to join Our own fan club would be tacky, don’t you think?
 
Dr. Bombay:
Although We confess a certain love for Our exalted Self, to join Our own fan club would be tacky, don’t you think?
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perhaps a bit tacky… but that’s beside the point.

My guess is that no one asked you to join yet.😃
 
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AMDG1:
Wow. I’ve made only 2 previous posts but that last one sure did garner a lot of debate.

Lots of arguing on this one so what the heck…I’ll through another log potentially on the fire.

You’re right - I prefer a Mass that looks like the one I remember as a kid in 1970…it’s just that - a preference.
The problem with all of this is that (as Dumspiro pointed out):
  • The Church has accommodated lots of “special interest” groups…so they can more enthusiastically bring their hearts and minds to the Mass. People in search of a more “traditional” Mass are generally pretty much out of luck. Local parish priests aren’t too receptive to offering one (thinking that they won’t draw enough of a crowd to make it worthwhile…can’t fault their logic although I suspect that in my town such a Mass would draw in people from surrounding parishes too - more “money found” for our parish). I fortunately have the option of more traditional Masses…but that’s either a TLM Mass or a Pauline entirely in Latin – both 20 miles from my home. So I go to my local “progressive” church 1 mile away and then watch the EWTN Mass at night.
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Welcome to the fray :rotfl:

I keep saying it - you can find a contemporary Mass just 5 minutes away, but if you want to find a Mass with valid, traditional components, you will be driving a long way.

I’m very glad to see an entire slew of young, orthodox seminarians, all learning Latin enthusiastically, celebrating ad orientem when they get the chance, etc.

I do believe there will be a gradual shift as time goes on to more traditional celebrations. We won’t be living on the frontier any longer. However, it may take another 20-30 years to see more traditional Masses in such a way that we can hop in the car and run down the street the way the contemporaries and progressives can today.
 
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