Novus Ordo Priest Is Fed Up

[Akini]

A subsidiary note to my post. Here is an example of the damage caused by Novus Ordo by a Gabriel Garnica: “…I can also remember watching a man kneeling for Communion at a central urban church, where I like to go to confession. The man was last in line, and when the priest saw him kneeling, he asked him to stand. The man refused, gesturing that he wanted to receive the Conscreated Host on his knees. The priest just ignored him, and walked back to the altar, leaving the man kneeling for a few minutes before the rejected parishioner just got up and went back to his seat, without the Bread of Life he had sought…” I wonder what was Jesus Christ’s thought when this particular priest refused to give the Holy Communion to the man.

 

[PAboy57]

many thanks to the original poster for sharing this information. i find Fr. Ward’s website very interesting. Thanks.

 

[thomas_jd]

A subsidiary note to my post. Here is an example of the damage caused by Novus Ordo by a Gabriel Garnica: “…I can also remember watching a man kneeling for Communion at a central urban church, where I like to go to confession. The man was last in line, and when the priest saw him kneeling, he asked him to stand. The man refused, gesturing that he wanted to receive the Conscreated Host on his knees. The priest just ignored him, and walked back to the altar, leaving the man kneeling for a few minutes before the rejected parishioner just got up and went back to his seat, without the Bread of Life he had sought…” I wonder what was Jesus Christ’s thought when this particular priest refused to give the Holy Communion to the man.

I think Jesus would be upset to find a man who lost the greatest gift from God because of his stubbornness and lack of respect. Perhaps the man does not understand the REAL PRESENCE. Blame the man not the Holy Mass!!

 

[FAB]

The problem is not witht he NO, but with those who want to continue to put thier own personal devotions and thier own wishes ahead of the teachings of the Magisterium. Threads like this are no help either. The church in the United States and most of the world, with the exception of Euope in growing. 3
I’ve read Fr. Paul’s letters a number of times and each time disagree with his conclusions. Teh greatest threat to the Church is not the NO, but the decent and different groups in the Church. Traditionalist vs liberals, vs, vs, vs.
If I were not already Catholic and I looked at sites like this one and other similar, I can’t say that the discssions are particularly enlighting. Why would anyone want to join?

Peace,
FAB

 

[ProVobis]

. The church in the United States and most of the world, with the exception of Euope in growing.

If you were to include the immigration factor, I would agree with you about the U.S.

 

[FAB]

If you were to include the immigration factor, I would agree with you about the U.S.

We are all God’s people. The braches of the mustard tree does not have national or racial boundries.

Peace,
FAB

 

[pnewton]

If you were to include the immigration factor, I would agree with you about the U.S.

Then let us be glad it is included. One of the constants since time immemorial is that the richer and more intellegent one becomes, the more likely one will have the humility to turn to God. The wisdom of God is foolishness to man. It is easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle, etc.

 

[Lamentabili]

My question is: should my son have accepted Communion from the Eucharistic Minister? Can he accept Communion from an ordained deacon? He attended Mass on Christmas Day at another church so that he could receive Communion.

No Catholic is obligated to receive communion at any particular Mass with the exception of one time during Easter season. Thus if your son is uncomfortable receiving from an EM, especially since the use of the EM at the parish is most likely an abuse since he/ she is not truly necessary, he doesn’t have to. He could use the time to grow in devotion to the Eucharist as is practiced in Ignatian retreats.

 

[Lamentabili]

I yearn for the day when I can once again kneel and receive Our Lord as He ought to be received. Until that day I will pray and work one brick at a time.

That day is now. I believe Rome has stated it is your right to receive kneeling on the tongue and in fact, all who receive from the current Pope must do so in this manner.

 

[Lamentabili]

A subsidiary note to my post. Here is an example of the damage caused by Novus Ordo by a Gabriel Garnica: “…I can also remember watching a man kneeling for Communion at a central urban church, where I like to go to confession. The man was last in line, and when the priest saw him kneeling, he asked him to stand. The man refused, gesturing that he wanted to receive the Conscreated Host on his knees. The priest just ignored him, and walked back to the altar, leaving the man kneeling for a few minutes before the rejected parishioner just got up and went back to his seat, without the Bread of Life he had sought…” I wonder what was Jesus Christ’s thought when this particular priest refused to give the Holy Communion to the man.

The communicant would have a case to report to the Bishop and , if unsuccessful, to Rome as Rome has said communicants should not be denied communion if they present themselves kneeling.

What possible defense could a priest have for not giving communion in this manner when the Holy Father requires this method of reception from his communicants?

 

[Lamentabili]

Congregation de Cultu Divino et Disciplina Sacramentorum
Prot. n. 1322/02/L
Rome, 1 July 2002

Your Excellency,

This Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments has recently received reports of members of the faithful in your Diocese being refused Holy Communion unless while standing to receive, as opposed to kneeling. The reports state that such a policy has been announced to parishioners. There were possible indications that such a phenomenon might be somewhat more widespread in the Diocese, but the Congregation is unable to verify whether such is the case. This Dicastery is confident that Your Excellency will be in a position to make a more reliable determination of the matter, and these complaints in any event provide an occasion for the Congregation to communicate the manner in which it habitually addresses this matter, with a request that you make this position known to any priests who may be in need of being thus informed.

The Congregation in fact is concerned at the number of similar complaints that it has received in recent months from various places, and considers any refusal of Holy Communion to a member of the faithful on the basis of his or her kneeling posture to be a grave violation of one of the most basic rights of the Christian faithful, namely that of being assisted by their Pastors by means of the Sacraments (Codex Iuris Canonici, canon 213). In view of the law that “sacred ministers may not deny the sacraments to those who opportunely ask for them, are properly disposed and are not prohibited by law from receiving them” (canon 843*§1), there should be no such refusal to any Catholic who presents himself for Holy Communion at Mass, except in cases presenting a danger of grave scandal to other believers arising out of the person’s unrepented public sin or obstinate heresy or schism, publicly professed or declared. Even where the Congregation has approved of legislation denoting standing as the posture for Holy Communion, in accordance with the adaptations permitted to the Conferences of Bishops by the Institution Generalis Missalis Romani n. 160, paragraph 2, it has done so with the stipulation that communicants who choose to kneel are not to be denied Holy Communion on these grounds.

In fact, as His Eminence, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has recently emphasized, the practice of kneeling for Holy Communion has in its favor a centuries-old tradition, and it is a particularly expressive sign of adoration, completely appropriate in light of the true, real and substantial presence of Our Lord Jesus Christ under the consecrated species.

Given the importance of this matter, the Congregation would request that Your Excellency inquire specifically whether this priest in fact has a regular practice of refusing Holy Communion to any member of the faithful in the circumstances described above and - if the complaint is verified - that you also firmly instruct him and any other priests who may have had such a practice to refrain from acting thus in the future. Priests should understand that the Congregation will regard future complaints of this nature with great seriousness, and if they are verified, it intends to seek disciplinary action consonant with the gravity of the pastoral abuse.

Thanking Your Excellency for your attention to this matter and relying on your kind collaboration in its regard,

******************************************************* Sincerely yours in Christ,

******************************************************* Jorge A. Cardinal Medina Estévez
******************************************************* Prefect
******************************************************* +Francesco Pio Tamburrino
******************************************************* Archbishop Secretary

 

[brotherhrolf]

That day is now. I believe Rome has stated it is your right to receive kneeling on the tongue and in fact, all who receive from the current Pope must do so in this manner.

Would that that be true here! The communion rails are long gone at my parish. I have to use the pew for support just to genuflect and to get up from kneeling during Mass. I honestly don’t think I could go down on my knees without something to steady me. Harsh reality but unfortunately true.

I can/could go down on my knees but getting up without support is the problem. I would not cause spectacle at my parish.

 

[Shin]

Would that that be true here! The communion rails are long gone at my parish. I have to use the pew for support just to genuflect and to get up from kneeling during Mass. I honestly don’t think I could go down on my knees without something to steady me. Harsh reality but unfortunately true.

I can/could go down on my knees but getting up without support is the problem. I would not cause spectacle at my parish.

I kneel down, just like I was going to genuflect, but with both knees, then you get the one knee up again, back in genuflect position, and put a hand on it to steady yourself, and pop back up again.

Quick and works, while you’re still of the age to be able to… I miss too of course, the Communion rail back at my old church – which I might add, is still there, and still used.

If there’s a pew handy that is nice to have too.

 

[ProVobis]

No Catholic is obligated to receive communion at any particular Mass with the exception of one time during Easter season. Thus if your son is uncomfortable receiving from an EM, especially since the use of the EM at the parish is most likely an abuse since he/ she is not truly necessary, he doesn’t have to. He could use the time to grow in devotion to the Eucharist as is practiced in Ignatian retreats.

I agree. I believe you have to be properly disposed to receive communion. To me, this isn’t limited to the fast and sinless state. If I have a fight with my spouse an hour before Mass and my mind is all over the place on what I should have said, etc. my mind isn’t properly attuned to reception of Communion; therefore I might be better off postponing communion till later that day. Same holds if you see too many EMs distributing; if it bothers and angers you, how can you be properly disposed?

 

[DJgang]

Glad to see a Priest speaking out.

I am a convert. I still, ocassionally, can not believe that Catholics would want to receive the host in their hands. I feel completely unworthy to touch Our Lord…I have NEVER received in the hand, nor will I allow my children. If a priest were to refuse me, then that would be on him, not me and our Lord will take care of that…

As for the NO … I have no problem with the Mass at all. But I can see where Catholics who have grown up in the Church and was in the Church pre VII would be upset with change in the mannerisms of the parishers… so it’s not so much the Mass itself, it’s just what that change has brought with it…

Before converting, I left Mass one time. The couple beside me came in late, whispered the entire Mass and rubbed each other…the woman in front of me showed her crack the whole time…I left… (I know that didn’t bring much to the discussion, but…)

 

[Lamentabili]

I am a convert. I still, ocassionally, can not believe that Catholics would want to receive the host in their hands. I feel completely unworthy to touch Our Lord…I have NEVER received in the hand, nor will I allow my children. If a priest were to refuse me, then that would be on him, not me and our Lord will take care of that…

It is a divine irony that Protestants began the practice of receiving standing in the hand at the time of the Reformation to reinforce their belief that the Eucharist was merely symbolic and to lessen belief in the Real Presence.

Then, 500 years later, Protestants who convert to Catholicism realize they would not dare assume to touch Our Lord, truly present, with their hands standing, while a majority of Catholics see no problem in it. Of course a majority of Catholics don’t believe in the Real Presence anymore. It seems we have come full circle.

 

[DJgang]

It is a divine irony that Protestants began the practice of receiving standing in the hand at the time of the Reformation to reinforce their belief that the Eucharist was merely symbolic and to lessen belief in the Real Presence.

Then, 500 years later, Protestants who convert to Catholicism realize they would not dare assume to touch Our Lord, truly present, with their hands standing, while a majority of Catholics see no problem in it. Of course a majority of Catholics don’t believe in the Real Presence anymore. It seems we have come full circle.

Wow, you have given me much to think about!

Also, I made a pit stop at the ECUSA…even there, we received kneeling at the altar…imagine my surprise when I didn’t see kneeling at the Catholic Church…but it didn’t stop me from coming Home! I’ll just continue to be an on-fire convert!

 

[brotherhrolf]

I kneel down, just like I was going to genuflect, but with both knees, then you get the one knee up again, back in genuflect position, and put a hand on it to steady yourself, and pop back up again.

Quick and works, while you’re still of the age to be able to… I miss too of course, the Communion rail back at my old church – which I might add, is still there, and still used.

If there’s a pew handy that is nice to have too.

Easier said than done. I am no light weight. I am subject to falls and the only way to get up is to have support or someone to help me up. I am a big man at 6’2" and 270 lbs. I’ve tried the “hand on the knee” technique and I could manage it years ago. Sadly, my body fails me. I just need one support or one hand to secure me as I pull myself up.

Pro Vobis, my friend, we are on the same wavelength. I would move heaven and earth rather than receive Our Lord unworthily. The scenario you describe is one I in which I can relate. I don’t receive unless I am properly disposed and that includes tiffs with DW on the way to Mass.

Would that all of us maintained that discipline!

 

[Shin]

Pro Vobis, my friend, we are on the same wavelength. I would move heaven and earth rather than receive Our Lord unworthily. The scenario you describe is one I in which I can relate. I don’t receive unless I am properly disposed and that includes tiffs with DW on the way to Mass.

Would that all of us maintained that discipline!

It’s said that the early desert hermits, who received Holy Communion so rarely because of their isolation, and yet nevertheless were great saints were so because of their preparation for it… .

The more purely and properly disposed we are the better.

But at the same time… the devils do not want us to receive properly, and if they interfere with our Communions to the point where it’s a downward spiral of no Communion, and so no spiritual strength to fight them off…

St. Claude de la Colombiere and St. Peter Julian Eymard have written some wonderful works touching on the subject of the Eucharist that can help that way.

Proper preparation for Communion… I pray it is taught strongly and widely from the pulpits before long.

 

[pnewton]

Congregation de Cultu Divino et Disciplina Sacramentorum
Prot. n. 1322/02/L
Rome, 1 July 2002

Your Excellency,

This Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments has recently received reports of members of the faithful in your Diocese being refused Holy Communion unless while standing to receive, as opposed to kneeling. … Priests should understand that the Congregation will regard future complaints of this nature with great seriousness, and if they are verified, it intends to seek disciplinary action consonant with the gravity of the pastoral abuse.

Thanking Your Excellency for your attention to this matter and relying on your kind collaboration in its regard,

******************************************************* Sincerely yours in Christ,

******************************************************* Jorge A. Cardinal Medina Estévez
******************************************************* Prefect
******************************************************* +Francesco Pio Tamburrino
******************************************************* Archbishop Secretary

I love this letter. It has to be the nicest threat I have ever read. It sure makes me proud of our Holy Father.