Novus Ordos Mass...why?

[archangel04]

Just get yourself to a TLM or an Eastern Catholic Church.

I just attended my first TLM last Sunday and guess what, there were alot of people wearing jeans especially the younger crowd. I think I only say 5 people wearing ties, and their church had a wooden altar. I ‘ve also been to Romanian mass and guess what? It was the same there.
In all honesty I sense alot of closed minded folks from the traditional side and it has really pushed me away from continuing to get closer to the TLM. My parish celebrate the OM and in the Spnaish mass the music is horrible, alot of people don’t know how to dress, and there is lack of reverence, but my parish also has a stone alter, tabernacle in the center, uses the organ in English mass, and much more. I finally realize that I must go to mass not to judge or “change” things, but to worship and receive my Lord everything else is 2nd. I must pray for those who don’t know the way so they might one day change. But quit blaming the "new mass’ for the problems the Church has. The church is full of sinners, hence why we should pray for them and us.

 

[archangel04]

Almost all the gripes made were not abuses at all. For example, you mention music. There is not Church document that addresses who the composers of music should be. I hear this complaint a lot. Yet no one can show where the Church has spoken on this issue. As Catholics, we need to be obedient to our Church, yet charitable where the Church is silent. As sinners, we are often less charitable over the areas that the Church allows discretion.

I wish everyone that desired to attend a TLM had the availablity to do so. However, such an availability must never be a platform for bashing the Sacred Liturgy of the Catholic Church as practiced elsewhere.

 

[CradleCath]

Yeh, about as speechless as all the CITT posters on CA.

What in the world is CITT?? Maybe you’re referring to Communion in the Hand? That would be CITH.

 

[Hotchkiss]

Are you saying that the Mass as described in the OP is just as reverent as say a church where the large crucifix is visible to the entire congregation during the Mass, the Mass is said properly and with no abuses, etc?

I have no idea about the Church itself – the description was a bit emotional.

Why would you ask if the Mass that is properly celebrated with no abuses is more reverent than one where it is not? OF COURSE IT IS! Very odd question to ask!

But abuses do not equate to the OF Mass. That’s just silly.

That said, I do not believe that quality of music has much to do with reverence. However, I do think that Protestant hymns do not belong at Mass. The hymns at Mass should be Catholic and clearly so.

What do you mean “Protestant hymns?” It’s just like the ignorant people who detest the Book of Common Worship used for the Anglican-use Masses because its progenitor was prepared by a Protestant (Cranmer.) FORGET that its 100% orthodox and FORGET that it is a stunningly beautiful liturgy! It’s basis is the Book of Common Prayer which was created by a Protestant so it HAS to be bad!

That’s nothing more than ignorant rubbish.

I was just thinking about Easter Sunday Mass. I LOVE processing into the church while Jesus Christ is Risen Today is being sung accompanied by the pipe organ. To me there is no better Easter Sunday processional. Absolutely sublime. It would be ludicrous to reject such a lovely hymn because it was created by Charles Wesley of Methodist fame.

 

[Hotchkiss]

Almost all the gripes made were not abuses at all. For example, you mention music. There is not Church document that addresses who the composers of music should be. I hear this complaint a lot. Yet no one can show where the Church has spoken on this issue. As Catholics, we need to be obedient to our Church, yet charitable where the Church is silent. As sinners, we are often less charitable over the areas that the Church allows discretion.

I wish everyone that desired to attend a TLM had the availablity to do so. However, such an availability must never be a platform for bashing the Sacred Liturgy of the Catholic Church as practiced elsewhere.

 

[CradleCath]

I just attended my first TLM last Sunday and guess what, there were alot of people wearing jeans especially the younger crowd. I think I only say 5 people wearing ties, and their church had a wooden altar. I 've also been to Romanian mass and guess what? It was the same there.

You’ve attended ONE Tridentine Mass & now feel that you are welcome to critique it??
I was born into that Mass & prayed the TLM for 24 yrs. When they threw it out, I started attending the Novus Ordo Mass. I did that for 40 yrs.

BTW., Did you think that maybe the people wearing jeans were first-timers themselves??

In all honesty I sense alot of closed minded folks from the traditional side and it has really pushed me away from continuing to get closer to the TLM.

 

[Ohiomom]

What do you mean “Protestant hymns?” It’s just like the ignorant people who detest the Book of Common Worship used for the Anglican-use Masses because its progenitor was prepared by a Protestant (Cranmer.) FORGET that its 100% orthodox and FORGET that it is a stunningly beautiful liturgy! It’s basis is the Book of Common Prayer which was created by a Protestant so it HAS to be bad!

He probably means what I mean when (to myself) I roll my eyes at the hymn selection for Sundays of one of the churches I go to for daily mass. It is not that there have not been great hymns written by protestants. I also love Jesus Christ is Risen Today, but there are some songs “Lord of the Dance” comes to mind, that I would rather not hear at mass. Regarding the Anglican-use mass, since I have been reading about liturgy and the mass, I have heard nothing but excellent things about the Anglican use mass and translations. There is a community of sister’s about an hour from where we live that just became Roman Catholic in September along with the community’s priest. I am hoping they are able to bring the Anglican use mass to this area so I can participate.

.

You can have reverence in different masses, but the reality is there began to be a mentality among many Catholic liturgists, music directors and or priests that the emphasis of the mass was community and the sharing of a eucharistic meal and not mass as a sacrifice. For years in Ohio we attended an OF mass that was reverent beyond belief, but I lucked out finding a parish that still had and used its communion rail and had music directors that actually read and followed what the church has been saying about the music for mass (ie Latin does have a place, the people should know how to sing some of the parts in chant- vernacular or Latin) AND that popular music forms (pop, rock) are not preferred.

 

[peary1]

Hello everyone. This is my first post. I really felt the need to vent and find answers.

I made my confirmation (I am not a convert, just returning) last week at Saint Dominic Savio in Bellflower, CA. Unfortunately I was not able to truly enjoy this momentous event. There were no stations of the cross insight (maybe they took them down for Advent. Is this customary?).

No, it is not ‘customary’ for any Catholic Church to take down the Stations of the Cross if such were up beforehand. Usually, these are plaques attached to a specific wall or down a church aisle where one may make a mental holy pilgrimage the way one would do in Jerusalem.

The crucifix held during the entrance was some bizarre post-modern art project. The cross itself was wood, and the “Jesus” was metal, but looked like two legs from a Christmas tree stand turned into a cross. The large crucifix was over the entrance door. Basically you’ll only see it on your way out of the church. The weird thing about that large crucifix is Jesus had one arm free from the cross, as if saying he never did die on the cross, but just walked off of it.

That is not a standard corpus. Sometimes there is the Resurrection Cross - a 20th century concept where Christ appears as if he is lifting Himself off of the Cross in a ‘resurrection’ pose. Either the body of the Lord is nailed to the Cross or not.

The music was terrible. The “choir” consisted of a pianist, singers, lead acoustic guitarist, harmonica, drums and a very faint trumpet. They played a lot of protestant pop “hymnals” that you hear on infomercials at 2am “I CAN SING OF YOUR NAME FOREVER!”. By the middle of the ceremony I had an astonishing headache.

They need a new music director, preferably one that is Catholic.

I haven’t been to a NO mass in a few years but this was definitely the worst I’ve experienced. Just about every parishioner refused to be given the communion wafer by mouth. They just held their hands out and popped it in themselves (maybe I am just being picky?). The thing I find odd about Saint Dominic Savio’s is the parish was founded by Salesians… being that they are a religious order you’d think they hold on to some of the sacred traditions.

The Salesians have turned into one of the most liberal religious orders around. And they’re not getting enough vocations to make themselves viable for the future. They need a massive overhaul at the top.

I think the most bizarre part of it all was the fact that the Bishop actually sang along to the music. How could some one so high up in the church actually like this stuff? It really threw me off when the Bishop would chant for a few words and the choir would storm in with an awful song.

What is he going to do? Disrupt the Mass? C’mon!

If it weren’t for the name on the building I would have thought I was attending a protestant gathering.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this???

I’ve been to worse!

 

[ProVobis]

What in the world is CITT?? Maybe you’re referring to Communion in the Hand? That would be CITH.

That too.

 

[peary1]

It’s one thing if they are just attending and it’s bad enough then, but it’s totally different if they are Eucharistic ministers, altar servers, lectors or cantors. Someone who is going to be front and center helping at Mass should at least dress the part least of all for the congregation, but much more so for God.

Suppose those are the best clothes they have. Blue collar doesn’t mean white collar. That is up to the priest to instruct them on how to dress. If they are in need, then maybe the church should have a charitable drive to help the family or purchase clothing for them. Most blue collar workers I know are either making enough just above the poverty line or are not working in this economy. Have a little charity.

 

[Morgan_Hiver]

Where I attend services there is still an altar rail. I never quite understood why they removed the altar rails from the church. I know the argument is “IT CREATES A BARRIER! EXCLUDES US!” but don’t bus drivers have a line that you aren’t supposed to over step? Streets have yellow lines and dotted lines to ensure safety. There are ropes that museums use to keep children and curious adults from touching priceless works of art. No one complains of this. I really don’t believe altar rails exclude anyone from the mass. “When the faithful communicate kneeling, no other sign of reverence is required since kneeling itself is a sign of adoration” - Eucharisticum Mysterium. Now that people no longer kneel and have started taking the CITH, it seems that belief of the Real Presence has become optional. People just seem to be popping a Ritz cracker in their mouths.

Ok, go ahead and tear up my post! haha

 

[Morgan_Hiver]

In regards to my last comment…many mainline protestants use the altar rail. There are many Anglican, Lutheran and Methodist buildings that look more like a church than Catholic churches. So, if these protesters feel it to be appropriate to use the altar rail why wouldn’t Catholics?

 

[peary1]

Are you saying that the Mass as described in the OP is just as reverent as say a church where the large crucifix is visible to the entire congregation during the Mass, the Mass is said properly and with no abuses, etc? That said, I do not believe that quality of music has much to do with reverence. However, I do think that Protestant hymns do not belong at Mass. The hymns at Mass should be Catholic and clearly so.

Many protestant hymns are actually more Catholic than some of the garbage shoved into our ears during Sunday Masses.

 

[Hotchkiss]

True… but you must admit some OF’s have problems. Not all of them.

Like Monica (I think) said, you’re there for the Eucharist. No matter what’s wrong with them Christ is still there. Sad, sure, but still there.

I once read a really good article about what to do if there’s liturgical abuses at a parish, or general problems. If you’re a regular and have many other parishioners with you, then you should follow a certain procedure to get this taken care of. If you’re alone, or it’s not your parish, all you can do is pray for them. If it’s really bad, a letter to the bishop would work, but if it’s just regular problems that are sort of borderline, then you can’t do anything but pray for them.

Some EF’s have problems too. They had a heckuva lot more back when the Tridentine was the OF and not .5% or less of the total Masses celebrated.

 

[Hotchkiss]

You’ve attended ONE Tridentine Mass & now feel that you are welcome to critique it??
I was born into that Mass & prayed the TLM for 24 yrs. When they threw it out, I started attending the Novus Ordo Mass. I did that for 40 yrs.

 

[Hotchkiss]

You can have reverence in different masses, but the reality is there began to be a mentality among many Catholic liturgists, music directors and or priests that the emphasis of the mass was community and the sharing of a eucharistic meal and not mass as a sacrifice. For years in Ohio we attended an OF mass that was reverent beyond belief, but I lucked out finding a parish that still had and used its communion rail and had music directors that actually read and followed what the church has been saying about the music for mass (ie Latin does have a place, the people should know how to sing some of the parts in chant- vernacular or Latin) AND that popular music forms (pop, rock) are not preferred.

I don’t like any crummy hymns be they Catholic or Protestant. It’s ridiculous to attack an objectively GOOD hymn because it has a Protestant origin.

Not sure what the community/meal/sacrifice language is doing here…

 

[Hotchkiss]

Many protestant hymns are actually more Catholic than some of the garbage shoved into our ears during Sunday Masses.

Bingo.

 

[archangel04]

You’ve attended ONE Tridentine Mass & now feel that you are welcome to critique it??
I was born into that Mass & prayed the TLM for 24 yrs. When they threw it out, I started attending the Novus Ordo Mass. I did that for 40 yrs.

 

[archangel04]

CradleCath;6071271:

Are you SERIOUS? Look at your OWN comments! Your labeling. Your judging.

You mention jeans as if there is a special rule where they cannot be worn to the EF. I will be doing just that tomorrow at 11:00 AM PST!

Thank you so much for pointing out exactly what I am talking about.

 

[Hotchkiss]

Hotchkiss;6073425:

Thank you so much for pointing out exactly what I am talking about.

You don’t seem to get it, do you? The “brash and condemining” views you expressed regarding “liberal Catholics” appear to be a product of the very intolerance you judge to exist in others.