Now Maybe More Lutherans Will Come Home to Rome

[Old_Convert]

I just copied the following article from Comcast.net

Lutherans to allow sexually active gays as clergy
By PATRICK CONDON, AP

MINNEAPOLIS — Leaders of the nation’s largest Lutheran church voted Friday to allow sexually active gays and lesbians in committed relationships to serve as clergy.

Gays and lesbians are currently allowed to serve as ministers in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America only if they remain celibate. The proposal to change that passed with 68 percent approval.

At 4.7 million members and about 10,000 congregations in the United States, the ELCA is one of the largest U.S. Christian denominations yet to take a more gay-friendly stance on clergy.

The final decision on whether to hire gay clergy in committed relationships will lie with individual congregations.

Some critics of the proposal have predicted its passage could cause individual congregations to split off from the ELCA, as has been the case with other Christian denominations, including the Episcopal Church.

The debate over the so-called “ministry recommendations” got under way first thing Friday, and delegate Al Quie, a former Republican governor of Minnesota, proposed an alternative: “Practicing homosexual persons are excluded from rostered leadership in this church.”

The proposal, which would have left the church’s policy more or less unchanged, failed. Conservatives had lost an important vote Wednesday night when the convention’s 1,045 delegates approved by a two-thirds supermajority a “social statement on human sexuality” that said the ELCA could accommodate diverging views on homosexuality.

The Rev. Katrina Foster, a pastor in the Metropolitan New York Synod, pointed out that the church has ordained woman and divorced people in violation of a literal interpretation of scripture.

“We can learn not to define ourselves by negation,” Foster said. “By not only saying what we are against, which always seems to be the same — against gay people. We should be against poverty. I wish we were as zealous about that.”

If you are a Lutheran of the ELCA and this is the “last straw” for you, come home to the Catholic Church! We welcome you with open arms full of love! Just as we have welcomed many Anglicans and Episcopalians.

God bless you all . . . and let us “keep THE faith together!”

 

[bpbasilphx]

Or maybe some of these Lutherans will become Orthodox.

Sts Tsaritsa Alexandra and Elizabeth the New-Martyred Abbess did.

 

[Jordan9]

I like how she said, “We should be against poverty” as if it’s an “either or” situation. I see that a lot in Protestantism. I always kind of shake my head and say, “You mean the church can’t have a definitive stance on both?”

I don’t see how this motion will feed the hungry, but whatever. I can’t get to Rome fast enough!

 

[Timbothefiveth]

matthew 16;18

I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

There’s something to be said for being in the Catholic church, the gates of Hades not overpowering it and all that.

What I wonder is what their thought process is? Why would the bible suddenly not apply?

Or maybe some of these Lutherans will become Orthodox.

They’re almost as at much risk. The catholic church, the bible says, will not be overpowered. Other churches, it doesn’t say.

 

[ferdie]

Or maybe some of these Lutherans will become Orthodox.

Sts Tsaritsa Alexandra and Elizabeth the New-Martyred Abbess did.

I really don’t mind if they do, It will give me great joy if they do that than see them stay the way they are.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I think a massive influx of new Catholics from the ELCA fallout is unlikely. Some might but I think the LCMS Lutherans will be the recipients of the vast majority of disenchanted Lutherans leaving the ELCA. The ELCA is just like a Lutheran version of the Episcopal Church. The two have intercommunion. Birds of a feather…you know the rest.

I think the vast majority will go to the LCMS, some will join other evangelical protestant churches, a very large group will stay and put up with this nonsense, and some will go Catholic here and there.

But what cracked me up most in the Yahoo version of this article was this:

**The Rev. Katrina Foster, a pastor in the Metropolitan New York Synod, pointed out that the church has ordained woman and divorced people in violation of a literal interpretation of scripture.

“We can learn not to define ourselves by negation,” Foster said. “By not only saying what we are against, which always seems to be the same — against gay people. We should be against poverty. I wish we were as zealous about that.”**

This is the typical liberal leftist Christian boloney: we can’t walk and chew gum. We can’t feed the poor AND try to live moral lives. You can only choose one so choose to feed the poor. Get divorced umpteen times, have your abortions, be gay, just as long as you’re helping the poor you’re good to go and a good Christian. Then you can go rip on folks like those Orthodox and Catholics who stress moral living so much and call them legalistic pharisees. Multitasking isn’t in the agenda for liberal Christians. That article really tickled my funny bone. The anti-gay Christians are channeling so much venom and fire, supposedly, toward the lowly gay pride parades that we’ve left the soup kitchens unmanned. The poor are lining up to empty kitchens while we’re out throwing tomatoes at the gay community. Sigh…

 

[hobbitofny]

As a former ELCA clergyman and now a Orthodox layman. The ELCA changes have been coming for years. I have strong roots in Norway. Home is where I find the faith of St. Olaf expressed in all its fullness and without change. I have returned home.

I do not expect to see large numbers returning home or going to Rome. Most people are wanting the faith to change to match their wishes. They are not wanting to change to live by God’s will.

I did check in detail about Rome. (I have MA in religion for a Catholic University.)

 

[hobbitofny]

Or maybe some of these Lutherans will become Orthodox.

Sts Tsaritsa Alexandra and Elizabeth the New-Martyred Abbess did.

A relic of St. Elizabeth is on the temple’s altar where I attend. I also venerate her icon each time I am at services.

 

[LutheranDK]

Or maybe some of these Lutherans will become Orthodox.

Sts Tsaritsa Alexandra

I’m asking because I don’t know, but are you talking here of HRH Alexandra Feodorovna Romanov? Because she only converted due to her marriage with the heir to the throne of Russia, the future Zar Nicholas II…

 

[JonNC]

=gurneyhalleck1;5603435]I think a massive influx of new Catholics from the ELCA fallout is unlikely. Some might but I think the LCMS Lutherans will be the recipients of the vast majority of disenchanted Lutherans leaving the ELCA. The ELCA is just like a Lutheran version of the Episcopal Church. The two have intercommunion. Birds of a feather…you know the rest.

I think the vast majority will go to the LCMS, some will join other evangelical protestant churches, a very large group will stay and put up with this nonsense, and some will go Catholic here and there.

There is also the possibility of a schism forming a new Lutheran synod.

***The Rev. Katrina Foster, a pastor in the Metropolitan New York Synod, pointed out that the church has ordained woman and divorced people in violation of a literal interpretation of scripture.

“We can learn not to define ourselves by negation,” Foster said. “By not only saying what we are against, which always seems to be the same — against gay people. We should be against poverty. I wish we were as zealous about that.”***

This is the typical liberal leftist Christian boloney: we can’t walk and chew gum. We can’t feed the poor AND try to live moral lives. You can only choose one so choose to feed the poor. Get divorced umpteen times, have your abortions, be gay, just as long as you’re helping the poor you’re good to go and a good Christian. Then you can go rip on folks like those Orthodox and Catholics who stress moral living so much and call them legalistic pharisees. Multitasking isn’t in the agenda for liberal Christians. That article really tickled my funny bone. The anti-gay Christians are channeling so much venom and fire, supposedly, toward the lowly gay pride parades that we’ve left the soup kitchens unmanned. The poor are lining up to empty kitchens while we’re out throwing tomatoes at the gay community. Sigh…:shrug

Spot on, Scott. One of the complaints I had when I was ELCA was their public policy advocacy. They always stressed government social(ist) policies, but rarely the fact that charity is the Church’s responsibility, not government’s. Of course, it is easier for government to raise (read: confiscate) money, and leftist clergy see no conflict between government confiscation of property for redistribution on the one hand, and “You shall not steal” on the other.

Jon

 

[gcnuss]

I think it’s difficult, at this point, to determine what the effects of this week’s actions will be. As one who disagrees strenuously with the decisions of the Churchwide Assembly, I don’t know what my own response will be, other than that I don’t want to act hastily based on emotional reactions. Time for prayer and discernment are needed now.

As far as a mass exodus (or even a moderate exodus) to the Catholic Church, I don’t see it happening. For many Lutherans, religious identity is often defined negatively – “I’m not a Catholic.” This is a large barrier to overcome if one is even to consider becoming Catholic.

Then, too, there are those who, while upset by the week’s events and opposed to the disregard of Scripture inherent in the decisions regarding same-sex relationships, cannot come to terms with various aspects of Catholic theology and ecclesiology. Marian doctrines are one problem. For some, it’s Ordinatio Sacerdotalis. For others, it’s auricular confession – or purgatory – or indulgences – or, (you name it).

Then, of course, there are those like me who will stay and be voices of continuing opposition to the new policies of the ELCA. Time will tell whether that is a good path to take.

 

[Old_Convert]

Dear hobbitofny:

I liked what you said, “I have strong roots in Norway. Home is where I find the faith of St. Olaf expressed in all its fullness and without change.”

Hi from one Scandinavian, read Norwegian in my case, to another. My parents and all of my grandparents were nominally Lutherans, but most of them did not go to church (except my mother’s parents). I do not know to what synod they belonged.

I took instructions in the Catholic faith (there was no RCIA then) three times, before I had the courage to stand up to everyone, but forty-years-a-Catholic later, I am so glad that I did! I thank God for the gift of the faith each day, and I will enter a semi-contemplative convent in October . . . at the ripe old age of 62. Praised be Jesus Christ! He loves us so much, He desires nothing more than to give us the holy desires of our hearts!

God bless you always :nun1:

 

[Alix1912]

As a Lutheran in the Missouri Synod I am disgusted by this move. I am also extremely disgusted by the media covering it by blanketing all Lutheran’s together in their headlines. I hate being lumped together with a synod that has clearly lost their roots completely.

As for a mass conversion to Catholicism…I wouldn’t bet on it. I see a move of many of the ELCA’s more conservative congregations and members to either form their own new synod, or join the Wisconsin Synod or the Missouri Synod. Though I have to admit that if this continues and this kind of moral relativism creeps into the Missouri Synod, then you might get an influx of new members.

One thing I love about our Pastor is that he unapologetically stands by the most conservative teachings of our synod. His attitude is this is what we believe, we are not comprimising or throwing out our core just to bring in tons of new members. It’s something I have always admired about the Catholic Church. At least it sticks to it’s guns on moral and spritual matters.

 

[wisdomseeker]

As a former ELCA clergyman and now a Orthodox layman. The ELCA changes have been coming for years. I have strong roots in Norway. Home is where I find the faith of St. Olaf expressed in all its fullness and without change. I have returned home.

I do not expect to see large numbers returning home or going to Rome. Most people are wanting the faith to change to match their wishes. They are not wanting to change to live by God’s will.

I did check in detail about Rome. (I have MA in religion for a Catholic University.)

if divorce is ok, if women ordination is ok, why not spouse everything else? go with the times.

pray for the CC and the OC that they may stand against all for Christ’s true teachings now and always.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I think it’s difficult, at this point, to determine what the effects of this week’s actions will be. As one who disagrees strenuously with the decisions of the Churchwide Assembly, I don’t know what my own response will be, other than that I don’t want to act hastily based on emotional reactions. Time for prayer and discernment are needed now.

As far as a mass exodus (or even a moderate exodus) to the Catholic Church, I don’t see it happening. For many Lutherans, religious identity is often defined negatively – “I’m not a Catholic.” This is a large barrier to overcome if one is even to consider becoming Catholic.

Then, too, there are those who, while upset by the week’s events and opposed to the disregard of Scripture inherent in the decisions regarding same-sex relationships, cannot come to terms with various aspects of Catholic theology and ecclesiology. Marian doctrines are one problem. For some, it’s Ordinatio Sacerdotalis. For others, it’s auricular confession – or purgatory – or indulgences – or, (you name it).

Then, of course, there are those like me who will stay and be voices of continuing opposition to the new policies of the ELCA. Time will tell whether that is a good path to take.

you mean, you reather embrace gay marriage clergy than to accept the Mother of God and pray for the dead, and so forth?

 

[hobbitofny]

if divorce is ok, if women ordination is ok, why not spouse everything else? go with the times.

QUOTE]

I do not say divorce and women’s ordination are ok.

 

[Convert66]

Disturbing, to say the least.

The Rev. Katrina Foster, a pastor in the Metropolitan New York Synod, pointed out that the church has ordained woman and divorced people in violation of a literal interpretation of scripture.

"We can learn not to define ourselves by negation," Foster said. "By not only saying what we are against, which always seems to be the same — against gay people. We should be against poverty. I wish we were as zealous about that."

This is a green light to the youth that it’s okay to do what ever your biology is telling you at any given time. Brood of vipers . . .

When did Alfred Kinsey become a Lutheran theologian? :dts:

I’d also like to know what Ms. Foster’s salary is each month. I’ll bet that she makes more than our local parish priests combined. Poverty indeed!

 

[hobbitofny]

They’re almost as at much risk. The catholic church, the bible says, will not be overpowered. Other churches, it doesn’t say.

Orthodox Church was founded in 33 AD. Since the day of Pentecost we have not been overpowered. We are not at risk. Our faith has held through Soviet efforts to overpower it. The ancient Patriarch sees of Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem have not been overpowered by errors. We hold to faith of the Apostles and the unaltered faith expressed in the Nicene-Constantinople. The Church will not be overpowered.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Orthodox Church was founded in 33 AD. Since the day of Pentecost we have not been overpowered. We are not at risk. Our faith has held through Soviet efforts to overpower it. The ancient Patriarch sees of Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem have not been overpowered by errors. We hold to faith of the Apostles and the unaltered faith expressed in the Nicene-Constantinople. The Church will not be overpowered.

you are missing the Sea of Peter. you are missing brother Peter. you know the one Jesus commanded to feed His sheep, to attend His sheep…

 

[hobbitofny]

you are missing the Sea of Peter. you are missing brother Peter. you know the one Jesus commanded to feed His sheep, to attend His sheep…

St. Peter was first Bishop of Antioch, where the follows of Jesus were first called Christians. I do not forget that Bishop Peter also journeyed to Rome. I did not list Rome with the others because of actions taken by the Bishop of Rome about1000 years ago.