Nra calls for armed police officer in every school

[Prodigal_Son1]

So what? A gun can do absolutely nothing without a finger pulling the trigger. IN effect, a gun is an inanimate object that extends the intent of the user.

An inanimate object that mass murderers go for, over other inanimate objects.

I’m not responding to all posts.

 

[dshix]

Prodigal son,

Several times, people have thrown out that fact that water can kill, and so can fire, and so also cars, sticks, ropes, etc.

Yes, I concede that the purpose of a car is not to kill. Ropes weren’t made for the purpose of strangling. Water’s primary focus is not death.

However, that is beside the point. These things were not **made **to kill, but are rather **used **to kill. The thing itself is not doing the act of killing, but rather the person **behind **the thing doing the action causes death.

Therefore, when a malicious person is behind the thing, a gun, water, fire, cars, sticks, or ropes are equally lethal.

We don’t need to restrict guns here, we need to enter the culture war and change the minds and hearts of people. However, seeing as that is a monumentally difficult and long task, we need a short-term solution. That solution is stopping the evil people out there who are ready to kill.

Now, a person with a club can’t defeat a person with a gun. And if the bad guy has a gun, the good guy better have something equivalent or better if he expects to get anywhere. In the case of a school, the sole reason the killer is going there is because he believes there will be no danger to himself. If it is a gun-free zone, the killer will be the only person armed, and he will be able to take his gleeful fantasies into reality.

I believe the NRA’s call for an armed guard in every school and many other public places is a very important thing, because it will essentially ensure that when there is a bad situation, a good guy will be there to fight the bad guy.

I will not enter the discussion concerning who will pay for it. I think that is entirely beside the point, and there is no merit or point to be made from it. However, there needs to be security for the public, and if we can’t change the evil people, we can at least make them very, very afraid.

I hope this made sense.

God bless!

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

No they are not. Say it all you want, it still won’t be true.

What was the gun invented for then Pete?

 

[pete_29]

What was the gun invented for then Pete?

To hit a target.

 

[dshix]

To hit a target.

I’m sorry pete, but I don’t quite see where you are going. Guns were invented as weapons. That’s a fact. Granted, there are many ways of looking at it, including target shooting, but in the end you must realize that the purpose of a gun is to shoot it at someone. The way you use it, however, is the clincher.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Prodigal son,

Several times, people have thrown out that fact that water can kill, and so can fire, and so also cars, sticks, ropes, etc.

Yes, I concede that the purpose of a car is not to kill. Ropes weren’t made for the purpose of strangling. Water’s primary focus is not death.

However, that is beside the point. These things were not **made **to kill, but are rather **used **to kill. The thing itself is not doing the act of killing, but rather the person **behind **the thing doing the action causes death.

Therefore, when a malicious person is behind the thing, a gun, water, fire, cars, sticks, or ropes are equally lethal.

We don’t need to restrict guns here, we need to enter the culture war and change the minds and hearts of people. However, seeing as that is a monumentally difficult and long task, we need a short-term solution. That solution is stopping the evil people out there who are ready to kill.

Now, a person with a club can’t defeat a person with a gun. And if the bad guy has a gun, the good guy better have something equivalent or better if he expects to get anywhere. In the case of a school, the sole reason the killer is going there is because he believes there will be no danger to himself. If it is a gun-free zone, the killer will be the only person armed, and he will be able to take his gleeful fantasies into reality.

I believe the NRA’s call for an armed guard in every school and many other public places is a very important thing, because it will essentially ensure that when there is a bad situation, a good guy will be there to fight the bad guy.

I will not enter the discussion concerning who will pay for it. I think that is entirely beside the point, and there is no merit or point to be made from it. However, there needs to be security for the public, and if we can’t change the evil people, we can at least make them very, very afraid.

I hope this made sense.

God bless!

A culture that has become desensitized to violence through media, movies, video games, etc. is also a part of the culture of death when it champions more guns to kill aggressors. It’s a part of the problem people are trying to use to cure the problem.

 

[dshix]

A culture that has become desensitized to violence through media, movies, video games, etc. is also a part of the culture of death when it champions more guns to kill aggressors. It’s a part of the problem people are trying to use to cure the problem.

Mind explaining how that had anything to do with what I said?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I’m sorry pete, but I don’t quite see where you are going. Guns were invented as weapons. That’s a fact. Granted, there are many ways of looking at it, including target shooting, but in the end you must realize that the purpose of a gun is to shoot it at someone. The way you use it, however, is the clincher.

Thank you for articulating the point.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Mind explaining how that had anything to do with what I said?

We don’t need to restrict guns here, we need to enter the culture war and change the minds and hearts of people. However, seeing as that is a monumentally difficult and long task, we need a short-term solution. That solution is stopping the evil people out there who are ready to kill.

Emphasis is mine. Preparing to kill, is a part of the culture that is causing the problem.

 

[dshix]

Emphasis is mine. Preparing to kill, is a part of the culture that is causing the problem.

Ok… So you’ve said how you think my solution doesn’t work, now what’s you’re solution? Take all the guns away from everyone?

Of course, if you do that, then the ONLY people with guns will be the criminals, and crime will go through the exosphere.

 

[pete_29]

I’m sorry pete, but I don’t quite see where you are going. Guns were invented as weapons. That’s a fact. Granted, there are many ways of looking at it, including target shooting, but in the end you must realize that the purpose of a gun is to shoot it at someone. The way you use it, however, is the clincher.

All guns, when fired, will hit a target (if aimed properly). All guns, when fired, do not kill. By your logic, you might as well say that man was designed to kill. I hardly believe that is God’s intent for man. No gun in my possession has the purpose of shooting at someone. Someday it may shoot at someone, but that is not its purpose.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

No they are not. Say it all you want, it still won’t be true.

If you review our past posts you’ll find that I and Prod rarely agree on anything regarding firearms and gun control. That being said, he is correct. Firearms were invented and designed to kill. The best you can say is that some firearms have been repurposed for non-lethal secondary applications (such as target shooting).

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Ok… So you’ve said how you think my solution doesn’t work, now what’s you’re solution? Take all the guns away from everyone?

Of course, if you do that, then the ONLY people with guns will be the criminals, and crime will go through the exosphere.

I haven’t said take all guns away and have suggested controls, that I honestly feel, as a gun owner, would be minor inconveniences to law abiding citizens, that are not paranoid about a government take over.

We need stricter registration controls, requiring documentation of transfer of ownership through private sales.

We need more accountability of guns, requiring owners to be accountable for their guns and prevent them from falling into the wrong hands.

We need more controls on those weapons of choice for mass murderers. Those guns seem to attract those with a propensity to a dangerous psyche. Maybe special permitting/license, that needs to include certain types of ammo that currently has controls; e.g. armor piercing, etc.

I am a hunter and believe if anyone needs a 30 round clip, or 100 round drum, to hunt, they shouldn’t be hunting, so I think some controls on those would be reasonable. Again, it might be something that requires special permitting, or license.

Notice bans is not used anywhere.

ETA: There are no one solution works all here. It’s going to take a combination of things, but first we have to find a true constructive discussion. We can’t deny that guns are the choice for most of these shooters, and that guns are a tool that needs special handling because their design is to kill.

 

[dshix]

I haven’t said take all guns away and have suggested controls, that I honestly feel, as a gun owner, would be minor inconveniences to law abiding citizens, that are not paranoid about a government take over.

We need stricter registration controls, requiring documentation of transfer of ownership through private sales.

We need more accountability of guns, requiring owners to be accountable for their guns and prevent them from falling into the wrong hands.

We need more controls on those weapons of choice for mass murderers. Those guns seem to attract those with a propensity to a dangerous psyche. Maybe special permitting/license, that needs to include certain types of ammo that currently has controls; e.g. armor piercing, etc.

I am a hunter and believe if anyone needs a 30 round clip, or 100 round drum, to hunt, they shouldn’t be hunting, so I think some controls on those would be reasonable. Again, it might be something that requires special permitting, or license.

Notice bans is not used anywhere.

Fair enough. I agree there should be some limitations, but I do not think we should filter out guns that have large numbers of rounds. Yes, I think there should be very careful checks for registration, but also the system should be easy enough for a normal citizen to get through so that it will not discourage him/her from getting a gun.

The more guns in the system, and the more people have guns, the less likely a criminal is going to attempt a crime in an public area. If you were a criminal, and you’re walking down a street, and you are aware that EVERY SINGLE PERSON has a gun, you are not gonna start shooting; you’ll get shot.

 

[dshix]

All guns, when fired, will hit a target (if aimed properly). All guns, when fired, do not kill. By your logic, you might as well say that man was designed to kill. I hardly believe that is God’s intent for man. No gun in my possession has the purpose of shooting at someone. Someday it may shoot at someone, but that is not its purpose.

Oh, come on. Don’t make me smirk/roll my eyes at your post.

 

[pete_29]

A little side note on the purpose of guns. I worked for the Dept. of Corrections. Considering the amount of trouble officers got into when they just fired warning shots, it became clear to me the purpose of these guns was to warn and not to kill. We were never taught shoot to kill, we were taught to hit the target center mass, be it the ground, or the warning shot box in the gym, or an inmate. No inmate has ever been shot at the prison where I worked. Several warning shot have been fired. So the purpose of these guns is clear.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

The more guns in the system, and the more people have guns, the less likely a criminal is going to attempt a crime in an public area. If you were a criminal, and you’re walking down a street, and you are aware that EVERY SINGLE PERSON has a gun, you are not gonna start shooting; you’ll get shot.

The problem is, the last three shooters, mall, school, and first responders, all killed themselves. People having guns are not deterrents in those instances.

 

[pete_29]

Oh, come on. Don’t make me smirk/roll my eyes at your post.

What is so hard to understand? Guns can do nothing by themselves. Solve the human equation, only then will you solve gun violence.

 

[dshix]

The problem is, the last three shooters, mall, school, and first responders, all killed themselves. People having guns are not deterrents in those instances.

Yes, they killed themselves. As soon as the first responders arrived. If there had been guards there in the first place, the situation might have been very different.

 

[InigoMontoya]

We need stricter registration controls, requiring documentation of transfer of ownership through private sales.

We need more accountability of guns, requiring owners to be accountable for their guns and prevent them from falling into the wrong hands.

We need more controls on those weapons of choice for mass murderers. Those guns seem to attract those with a propensity to a dangerous psyche. Maybe special permitting/license, that needs to include certain types of ammo that currently has controls; e.g. armor piercing, etc.

I am a hunter and believe if anyone needs a 30 round clip, or 100 round drum, to hunt, they shouldn’t be hunting, so I think some controls on those would be reasonable. Again, it might be something that requires special permitting, or license.

Notice bans is not used anywhere.

You’ll face a monumental battle arguing for a firearm registry. As history has shown (and is showing now with some of the legislator proposals), firearm registries have a strong tendency to lead to confiscation and harassment. None of my “former” firearms, are registered, nor do/did they legally have to.

Remember, it’s already been stated that the dreaded black rifle WASN’T used in the recent shooting… but it’s still the centerpiece of the debate.

I agree, anyone who needs a 30 round magazine shouldn’t be hunting. Hunting isn’t the only form of recreation with firearms. Modern sporting rifles are excellent platforms for competitive shooting and long range marksmanship, and those magazines are well suited. Additionally, and arguably most importantly, they’re extremely well suited for home-defense.

There already is licensing in place for class 3 firearms. There’s already regulations on dreaded armor piercing ammunition. There already is a federally mandated background check for new firearm purchases. I will honestly agree with one caveat though, there should be a mandate that “private” dealers at gun shows be required to have FFL licenses to participate - meaning they too would be required to conduct background checks. But honestly, they’re a ridiculously small percentage of sales at the dreaded gun shows.

The problem is, the last three shooters, mall, school, and first responders, all killed themselves. People having guns are not deterrents in those instances.

Actually, in 2 of the recent shootings. It was the presence of citizens, in the legal possession of firearms and conceal carry, who saved the day:

The off duty officer in the theater, carrying concealed while off duty and enjoying a movie.

The young man carrying concealed in the mall food court, while shopping with friends.