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ConfusedTim
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What a confused post - and why are you on this forum?
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Rkirby
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What paperwork? Just call and say you are no longer a member of the Catholic Church.
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cyberwolf001
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It’s a lot harder than that actually. You need to file an Act of Defection and sometimes meet with the Priest.
How confused? I simply pointed out that many ex-Catholics are still counted as Catholics. An if I and every non/ex Catholic had a penny for everytime we got asked the second question as a response to anything approaching a critical statement of ANYTHING we’d all be rich.
Nope they where born and raised Catholic from what I can tell and I get them from the Pagan community, sorry printed publications not online stuff.
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novaslasher
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Interestingly the story cites this statistic as well: “Infant baptisms totaled more than 887,000, down by almost 16,000.”
Part of the problem in counting the number of Catholics is deciding what makes a person Catholic. For the purposes of most surveys, a Catholic is probably defined as someone who self-identifies as a Catholic. But in reality, it is baptism that is the normative entry into the Church. Baptism puts an indelible mark on the soul and seals a person as an adopted son or daughter of God. Of course a Catholic can repudiate their faith after baptism and become an apostate, but they will always have that mark.
What is most concerning about this report is how much infant baptism has fallen. I think this either shows that most self-identifying Catholics aren’t practicing their faith and passing it on to their children, or are buying into the modern practice of not raising a child in the faith (and supposedly letting them decide what to practice when they are old enough).
If infant baptism keeps dropping, we will see a genuine drop in the population of Catholics as a percentage of population within the near future.
Part of the problem in counting the number of Catholics is deciding what makes a person Catholic. For the purposes of most surveys, a Catholic is probably defined as someone who self-identifies as a Catholic. But in reality, it is baptism that is the normative entry into the Church. Baptism puts an indelible mark on the soul and seals a person as an adopted son or daughter of God. Of course a Catholic can repudiate their faith after baptism and become an apostate, but they will always have that mark.
What is most concerning about this report is how much infant baptism has fallen. I think this either shows that most self-identifying Catholics aren’t practicing their faith and passing it on to their children, or are buying into the modern practice of not raising a child in the faith (and supposedly letting them decide what to practice when they are old enough).
If infant baptism keeps dropping, we will see a genuine drop in the population of Catholics as a percentage of population within the near future.
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nlm
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I would suggest the important factor to consider is quality NOT quantity. I would also suggest the Catholic Church is the same as any other, there are numbers to quote and then their are the faithful who not only abide by the rules but who actually put their faith into practice… daily. There is a difference.Counting individuals sitting in a church pew or counting the number of individuals who, when asked ,are quick to say ," Oh yes, I was born a…" does not count for much. Count those who are out beyond the church walls putting REAL Christianity into practice. Those are the ones who are truely pleasing to God. NLM
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Guyonthestreet
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I totally agree - and it’s nowhere near the claimed 1 billion plus, catholics. Simply claiming that the numbers of people calling themselves catholic is up is completely meaningless. What is the evidence out in the world to support this?Count those who are out beyond the church walls putting REAL Christianity into practice. Those are the ones who are truely pleasing to God. NLM
Falling Baptisms
Falling marriages
Falling communicants
Falling numbers of catholic teachers
Falling number of priests, nuns and brothers
Falling numbers of catholic schools
Increasing numbers of parishes without a resident priest.
Now, given the facts, not the flimflam, what can the church do about this?
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phes3
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“Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build MY CHURCH and the gates of hell will prevail against her” God never leaves us alone! Praise the Lord! for His mercy
Our Holy Catholic Apostolic Church will be until the end of times! when our Lord Jesus willl come back::
God Bless our Priests and fill them with the Holy Spirit
Our Holy Catholic Apostolic Church will be until the end of times! when our Lord Jesus willl come back::
God Bless our Priests and fill them with the Holy Spirit
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fabi_ole
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cyberwolf001
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Okay you quoted my post in fool was there any reason or was it a QFT?
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Guyonthestreet
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The Ryan report was published a few months ago. It is the Irish Governments Commission into child abuse in schools, hospitals, daycentres etc run by Irish religious orders.
The executive summary is here:
childabusecommission.com/rpt/ExecSummary.php
It makes very chilling and disturbing reading of what children suffered at the hands of these ordained religious, the unrelenting misery these poor children suffered at the hands of priests, nuns, and brothers, and the coverups.
It makes sense to me that these people would not be sympathetic or supportive of the church there. I don’t know what the general impact of the Commissions findings has had on the general irish population, but I can only imagine it will do great harm to the way religious are perceived there. That’s bound to have an impact on future generations considering a vocation.
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phes3
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There is nothing new on those negatives opinions, we always been under attack of other so called " christians" or “believers of God” even not believers,etc,etc.:tsktsk: as I said it before no matter what;… we are thee Church founded by Jesus Christ and nothing and nobody can change that, neverless try to destroy us, We have to do de very best of ourselves and serve God, to make this world a better place and by the end of our lives be at peace waiting for His promise of everlasting life.
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cspb56
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The problem with the statistics is that while it is very easy to count new members (baptism, RCIA). We have no idea how many people for whatever reason have let the church. The majority of those that leave just do so quietly. No records or anything they just disappear. So yes by virtue of baptism they are catholic and thus on the official records. Theya re really not part of the church. SOme go to other denominations worse yet many just give up and never enter a church again or stay away for decades. We just don’t numerically know.
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Guyonthestreet
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Phes3 - Negative opinions
Are you say the Irish Commission and all the investigations into abuse by the church in the states and elsewhere are just negative opinion? They’re not real? There really aren’t victims of abuse of these religious men and women of God because it could not happen in the one true catholic apostolic church founded by Jesus?
Perhaps you’re not, but if your post expressed emapthy, sympathy and acknowledgement of victims, I missed it.
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ConfusedTim
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The Irish abuse victims are very real, the Spanish inquistion did happen, the 14 century Popes were hideous, Peter denied Jesus, Judas betrayed him, the church is full of sinners but it is still the one true church.
We cant deny the fact that we are all human and all subject to failure but that does not mean that Christ did not create one true church. The holy spirit ensures that the church teaching remains true even when the clergy are not.
We cant deny the fact that we are all human and all subject to failure but that does not mean that Christ did not create one true church. The holy spirit ensures that the church teaching remains true even when the clergy are not.
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OneTrueCathApos
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Now hold on there a minute my non-Catholic friend. There are **more abuses **in the non-Catholic churches than ever was in the Catholic church. www.reformation.com will show you this. You are exaggerating your findings, which are not true. But you continue to undermine the church Christ established maliciously and purposely for your delight in hurting others. Your findings **are wrong **and I hope others know this.
**Catholics continue to represent about 17% of the World population, in 2007, there were 1.147 BILLION BAPTIZED CATHOLICS up from 1.045 BILLION in 2000.
**Priest shortage isn’t over, seminaries are filling up. Most people as yourself, are not aware of which dioceses are having success with vocations, and I wouldn’t expect you to be up on this anyway.
Boston, Chicago, Newark, Philadelphia, Minneapolis etc… have the largest ordinations. Savannah, GA. has 73,649 Catholics alone.
The diocese of Memphis where 18 men were just ordained and they are getting even younger.
In a age where the church has been marred by past scandals of SOME priests, one would think that would impact the number of men desiring to become priests, but this isn’t the case. In fact, it is quite the opposite.
Congo, Tanzania, Nigeria, and Uganda lead Africa in the growth of Catholic priests according to the latest edition of the Statistical Yearbook of the church.
Numbers went up 2.5%, Poland is also growing.
So until you understand that the Catholic church is thriving, you cannot say anything else that is negative about it as you have been doing. It is what it is. Even though that may be hard for non-Catholics to take.
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Guyonthestreet
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These are the catholic churchs own figures.
From offical catholic sources and from government and church sponsored commissions. All links provided. If you have a problem with that, call the Vatican. The abuse in the catholic church is monumentally more than every single other denomination put together. And the catholic church itself recognises and accepts this.Interestingly enough, your very attitude about the church is identified in the Ryan Report as a contributing factor that allowed the catholic religious to get away with such evil for so long.
3. The deferential and submissive attitude of the Department of Education towards the Congregations compromised its ability to carry out its statutory duty of inspection and monitoring of the schools.
childabusecommission.com/rpt/ExecSummary.php
You could replace your name for the dept of education. Your blinkered triumphalist hornblowing version of catholicism prevents you from seeing what is happening in your own church. And when confronted with it, it’s just plain old deny deny deny. Say, you’re not a Bishop by any chance are you
And until the catholic church faces up to its responsibility and changes its structures I really do believe it will just stumble from crisis to crisis. Now, even if the holy spirit prevents hell from prevailing against it, is it really acceptable that the church will continue to run in a way that will continue to cause untold suffering to God’s own children. I dont think so.
The link above is the executive summary. Have a go at reading it. It has the facts. And that’s just Ireland - one tiny little catholic country. Can you imagine what the real picture looks like world wide. We have a rough idea of Ireland and the states now. What’s it going to be like when the latin american countries start reporting properly, and the rest of europe?
I am pleased to hear that specific dioceses have full seminaries. I hope these men and women will be true shepherds.
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fabi_ole
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ConfusedTim
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The Catholic Church has made and will continue to make grave errors - nobody is denying it. Lets face it if Jesus could not find 12 good men then what chance is there for a church with a billion members and tens of thousands of priests. Like it or not there are always going to be problems, especially in the Catholic church because it is the one that the devil will attack more than any other.These are the catholic churchs own figures.
Interestingly enough, your very attitude about the church is identified in the Ryan Report as a contributing factor that allowed the catholic religious to get away with such evil for so long.
3. The deferential and submissive attitude of the Department of Education towards the Congregations compromised its ability to carry out its statutory duty of inspection and monitoring of the schools.
childabusecommission.com/rpt/ExecSummary.php
You could replace your name for the dept of education. Your blinkered triumphalist hornblowing version of catholicism prevents you from seeing what is happening in your own church. And when confronted with it, it’s just plain old deny deny deny. Say, you’re not a Bishop by any chance are you
And until the catholic church faces up to its responsibility and changes its structures I really do believe it will just stumble from crisis to crisis. Now, even if the holy spirit prevents hell from prevailing against it, is it really acceptable that the church will continue to run in a way that will continue to cause untold suffering to God’s own children. I dont think so.
The link above is the executive summary. Have a go at reading it. It has the facts. And that’s just Ireland - one tiny little catholic country. Can you imagine what the real picture looks like world wide. We have a rough idea of Ireland and the states now. What’s it going to be like when the latin american countries start reporting properly, and the rest of europe?
I am pleased to hear that specific dioceses have full seminaries. I hope these men and women will be true shepherds.
People telling the truth are doing Gods work
Those outing those who are doing wrong are doing Gods work
Those exaggerating and passing misinformation are doing the work of the devil.
Say a prayer to Jesus and ask him to guide you
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Guyonthestreet
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Agreed
Agreed
Are you another caholic that cannot face the facts. Your impication seems to be that the facts and figures quoted in this thread are exaggerated and misinformation. I deliberately stayed away from reading any sources that would have an anticatholic agenda. But to even dispute the churchs own figures
There is a big difference between being a loyal catholic no matter what, and being deluded. To deny the current state of the church is nothing short of delusion, and the answer will not be found there. And the answer to the crisis it is in will not come by loyal catholics staying deluded as to the very real problems currently in their church.I do, all the time.
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allhers
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The Church still keeps handing on the truth faithfully, as Fr. John Corapi says.
Each individual has free will, as you know, and they can choose good or choose evil.
Seems to me that a lot of people were listening to the world instead of the Church and that is starting to get better again. People are starting to see all the evil in the world around them, who could miss seeing the results of it? The Saints saw it long before most people did, (it takes some longer than others.) Saints are usually always in the State of Grace and see it sooner.
We all need to pray and offer sacrifices for one another in keeping with Church teaching and lead a Sacramental life.
By the grace of God, His will, will be done.
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