Numbers Game on Paul and Peter

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Isn’t this kind of a moot point?

Jesus is (I expect – I haven’t bothered to count) mentioned far more than either Paul or Peter. One would gather that he is by far the most important figure in the Bible.

And yet, the most important figure in the Bible chose Peter to be the leader of his “flock”.

Period. PERIOD. 🙂

Peace,
Dante
 
Atemi said:
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Non-Catholics just tend to correct these immaterial assumtions.
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This is certainly not the case. Peter was indeed the head of the early church. Moreover, I have heard the argument presented and initiated by non-Catholics concerning Paul vs Peter, and the intent was not to correct “immaterial assumptions” on the part of Catholics. The intent was to provide a biased revisionist view of primacy within the early Church and was an attempt to add credence to the non-catholic teaching of sola fide. This attempt was to be accomplished by elevating Paul above Peter and in turn elevating the non-catholic misinterpretation of Paul’s teaching over that of Peter, James, the Church and the rest of scripture.
 
Pax said:
This is certainly not the case. Peter was indeed the head of the early church.
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Nowhere shown to be the case in either Scripture or early history.

Peter was a leader in the early church, but there is nothing that says he was THE leader in the early church.

All that talk came later.
Moreover, I have heard the argument presented and initiated by non-Catholics concerning Paul vs Peter, and the intent was not to correct “immaterial assumptions” on the part of Catholics.
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Maybe so, but that is not the case in already two different threads here on CA.

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Atemi said:
You are right. My methodology on my last count was messed up. May I blame fatigue?

Nah.

I carefully recounted the Greek again by hand.

Using the same parameters mentioned before, this is what I got:

Saul: 16
Saoul: 8
Paul: 163

Cephas/Kephas: 6
Simon: 16
Peter: 161

Paul total: 187

Peter total: 183

Close…
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FWIW-

I stopped by the Lifeway Christian Bookstore last night. After reviewing the anti-Catholic titles that were for sale next to the books on Mormonism and Islam, I wondered over to the reference section.

I picked up a copy of Strong’s and counted the column-inches of verses for Peter (and related names) and Paul (and related names).

Peter has more entries in Strong’s than Paul.

Not very scientific, but interesting nonetheless.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:
 
Atemi said:
Nowhere shown to be the case in either Scripture or early history.

Peter was a leader in the early church, but there is nothing that says he was THE leader in the early church.

All that talk came later.

Maybe so, but that is not the case in already two different threads here on CA.

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I would strongly disagree, the evidence is pretty overwhelming from scripture and the early Church, such as the ECF’s that Peter was the head of the Church.
 
Atemi said:
It is from the Hebrew:

Acts 9:4, 9:17, 13:21, 22:7, 22:13, and 26:14.

Have a blessed Easter.
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You are double quoting:

Acts 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

THOSE VERSES LISTED ABOVE ARE ALREADY IN MINE AS HI-LIGHTED IN RED. YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO GIVE ME VERSES THAT I DON’T HAVE LISTED.

There are 180 verses with 188 hits. Which makes 8 duplications within the verses.

Act_7:58; Act_8:1; Act_8:3; Act_9:1; Act_9:4; Act_9:8; Act_9:11; Act_9:17; Act_9:19; Act_9:22; Act_9:24; Act_9:26; Act_11:25; Act_11:30; Act_12:25; Act_13:1; Act_13:2; Act_13:7; Act_13:9; Act_13:13; Act_13:16; Act_13:21; Act_13:43; Act_13:45; Act_13:46; Act_13:50; Act_14:9; Act_14:11; Act_14:12; Act_14:14; Act_14:19; Act_15:2; Act_15:12; Act_15:22; Act_15:25; Act_15:35; Act_15:36; Act_15:38; Act_15:40; Act_16:3; Act_16:9; Act_16:14; Act_16:17; Act_16:18; Act_16:19; Act_16:25; Act_16:28; Act_16:29; Act_16:36; Act_16:37; Act_17:2; Act_17:4; Act_17:10; Act_17:13; Act_17:14; Act_17:15; Act_17:16; Act_17:22; Act_17:33; Act_18:1; Act_18:5; Act_18:9; Act_18:12; Act_18:14; Act_18:18; Act_19:1; Act_19:4; Act_19:6; Act_19:11; Act_19:13; Act_19:15; Act_19:21; Act_19:26; Act_19:29; Act_19:30; Act_20:1; Act_20:7; Act_20:9; Act_20:10; Act_20:13; Act_20:16; Act_20:37; Act_21:4; Act_21:8; Act_21:11; Act_21:13; Act_21:18; Act_21:26; Act_21:29; Act_21:30; Act_21:32; Act_21:37; Act_21:39; Act_21:40;** Act_22:7;** Act_22:13; Act_22:25; Act_22:28; Act_22:30; Act_23:1; Act_23:3; Act_23:5; Act_23:6; Act_23:10; Act_23:11; Act_23:12; Act_23:14; Act_23:16; Act_23:17; Act_23:18; Act_23:20; Act_23:24; Act_23:31; Act_23:33; Act_24:1; Act_24:10; Act_24:23; Act_24:24; Act_24:26; Act_24:27; Act_25:2; Act_25:4; Act_25:6; Act_25:7; Act_25:9; Act_25:10; Act_25:14; Act_25:19; Act_25:21; Act_25:23; Act_26:1; Act_26:14; Act_26:24; Act_26:28; Act_26:29; Act_27:1; Act_27:3; Act_27:9; Act_27:11; Act_27:21; Act_27:24; Act_27:31; Act_27:33; Act_27:43; Act_28:3; Act_28:8; Act_28:15; Act_28:16; Act_28:17; Act_28:25; Act_28:30; Rom_1:1; 1Co_1:1; 1Co_1:12; 1Co_1:13; 1Co_3:4; 1Co_3:5; 1Co_3:22; 1Co_16:21; 2Co_1:1; 2Co_10:1; Gal_1:1; Gal_5:2; Eph_1:1; Eph_3:1; Phi_1:1; Col_1:1; Col_1:23; Col_4:18; 1Th_1:1; 1Th_2:18; 2Th_1:1; 2Th_3:17; 1Ti_1:1; 2Ti_1:1; Tit_1:1; Phm_1:1; Phm_1:9; Phm_1:19; 2Pe_3:15;

Ball is in your court.
 
Peter, Simon, Cephas Search via E-sword



Now we can exclude some of the verses:

We can exclude the verses in Matthew, Mark, and Luke that reference Simon the Cyrene (3) and the 5 verses in Acts that reference Simon Magnus.

So Total Verses = 182
Hits = 236
 
Randy_Carson said:
FWIW-

I stopped by the Lifeway Christian Bookstore last night. After reviewing the anti-Catholic titles that were for sale next to the books on Mormonism and Islam, I wondered over to the reference section.

I picked up a copy of Strong’s and counted the column-inches of verses for Peter (and related names) and Paul (and related names).

Peter has more entries in Strong’s than Paul.

Not very scientific, but interesting nonetheless.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:
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Did you notice, that book store does not carry Catholic Bibles? Their website use to carry Catholic Bibles until I raised a stink with the Local Priest in Montgomery Alabama, whom in turn contacted the manager of the store and the owner of the company… long story short… I went to this store to look for a Catholic Bible for my wife and was told “This is a Christian Book Store, we don’t carry Catholic Bibles” I then asked “So Catholics aren’t Christians?” I was told “Yes”.
 
“This is a Christian Book Store, we don’t carry Catholic Bibles” I then asked “So Catholics aren’t Christians?” I was told “Yes”.
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You know… (for a different thread) Why is it that some of the most hateful and judgmental people work in Christian Book Stores… I went in one looking for a Protestant bible with the Deuterocannonical (yes they exists) I made the mistake of calling it that in the store… his response… “I’m sorry, You mean the apocrypha don’t you…”

Needless to say, they didn’t have any, as I was walking out the store, the guy (who happened to be the manager) pulled another employee and immediately started commenting on my ‘Romanism’ Have had similar experiences at just about every other ‘Christian’ book store…

Anyway, I responded by going back a few days later and applied for a part time after hours job needless to say, they never called back. 😉

Anyway… point being… It just amazes me how much hatred these people generally have for people that don’t agree with THEM. Any places that sells slander as far as I am concerned is nothing more than an apostate baring false witness.

Maybe they should be called ‘Only those who we think are Christian’ Book stores

In Christ
 
I’ll second that.

And some non-catholics here at this forum question why some of us here have an attitude…
 
JoeyWarren said:
I’ll second that.

And some non-catholics here at this forum question why some of us here have an attitude…
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Rom 12:17 “Do not repay anyone evil for evil”

1Th 5:15 “See that no one repays another with evil for evil”

1Pe 3:9 “Do not repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling”
 
JoeyWarren said:
Now we can exclude some of the verses:

We can exclude the verses in Matthew, Mark, and Luke that reference Simon the Cyrene (3) and the 5 verses in Acts that reference Simon Magnus.

So Total Verses = 182
Hits = 236
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That is not enough exclusions.

Almost all of John refers to Peter as one name: “Simon Peter.”

I counted those as one mention of His person, because that is what it was.

Also, there are more "Simon"s that need to be removed from your counts. There are "Simon"s in the Gospels and Acts that need to be removed.

As I said, this cannot be done via computer, it must be done by hand, which I did.

The numbers I came up with remain true.

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Randy_Carson said:
FWIW-

I stopped by the Lifeway Christian Bookstore last night. After reviewing the anti-Catholic titles that were for sale next to the books on Mormonism and Islam, I wondered over to the reference section.

I picked up a copy of Strong’s and counted the column-inches of verses for Peter (and related names) and Paul (and related names).

Peter has more entries in Strong’s than Paul.

Not very scientific, but interesting nonetheless.
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LOL.

I actually will say thank you for contributing to this thread in such a manner. You actually remembered the thread and took some action to check it out.

I can appreciate that.

But your observation alone was similar to my earlier one: kinda a quick look. It cannot help with a serious count, though.

At least you picked up something to give it a go. That is more than most.

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Atemi…

Agree completely… No matter what level of disdain we are given… we should never return that evil…

It is how we respond to hatred that truly tests our Faith…

In Christ
 
lak611 said:
The name “Saoul” does not appear in any English Bible translation. Saul, Paul, Simon, Peter, Kepha, and Cephas do.
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I was not counting from the English Bible but from the Greek, and by hand.

“Saoul” is in the Greek text. It is from the Hebrew “Saul.”
 
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