Numbers in scripture

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exoflare

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Sorry if this has already been posted, but I thought it was quite thought-provoking: agapebiblestudy.com/Reference/Gematria.htm

The only thing that came to mind right away are how there just happen to be 5 decades that make up the rosary… anyone who is familiar with the purpose for the rosary knows just why this in particular caught my eye. 😉

What do you all think?
 
Hi, friend.

In essence, the analysis in the site for which you provided the hyperlink is wrong.

Here is the significance of Bible numbers…

2 = “the Church.”

3 = “the will of God,” “the Commandments.”

4 = “everyone.”

5 = “Christ.”

6 = “evil.”

7 = “complete,” “completely,” “perfect.”

8 = “saved.”

9 = “unsaved.”

10 = “very much.”

11 = “full-to-overflowing.”

12 = “all of the tribes of God’s people.”

40 = “testing,” “preparation.”

Unless the text actually SAYS that the numbers are added or subtracted, the rule is that types stand alone, or are to be multipled and divided. Division = “against,” “without.”

This interp works. Test it!
 
BibleReader,

Could you please point me to a valid source to read more about this topic? I guess the church probably wouldn’t have an official standpoint on it one way or the other though, huh?
 
Hi, exoflare.

I’m about the only writer in the Church on this subject. The Our Sunday Visitor organization carried 10 articles on Bible typology by me in its magazine, The Catholic Answer. When the editor Father Stravinskas was asked to leave, I went with him, and my articles on Bible types will appear in his new magazine, The Catholic Response.

In a sense, when I posted, “This interp works! Test it!,” I was giving you the best answer. Remember that the Bible IS “a valid source to read more about this topic.” It IS an expression of the Magisterium.

So, try it, and you will see that it works! Challenge my interps! Test me! Go ahead!

Go to Strong’s Concordance…

eliyah.com/lexicon.html

…and concordize each of the numbers in my list, and say, “Prove your case, BibleReader! Prove to me that the number in this verse and that verse means what you say it means!”
 
This sounds really fun 😃

One question for now… do the number interpretations you listed necessarily apply to EVERY time that number is used in scripture?
 
Okay here’s the first test I suppose 🙂

In Isaiah 6:2 and Revelation 4:8 the seraphim mentioned each have six wings… but Revelation says they praise God day and night. How does the interpretation for 6 meaning “evil” play into it? Or does the fact that there were four of these creatures mentioned (in Revelation) also play a part? I did notice that if you multiply them it makes 24 and then it is mentioned right after that verse in Rev 4:10 it happens to mention 24 elders.
 
Hi, exoflare.

Years ago, I used to fear challenges to the typological interps I deduced from Scripture, But they really do work every time, and so now they are only a fun challenge, for me.

The answer to your challenge is in Isaiah 6:6-7.

“Seraphim” means “the burning ones.” Burning is an analog of the Fire Type, referring to a “special presence of God,” but God’s “special presence” doesn’t always “make nice.” Sometimes, the fire burns evil, wickedness.

Lo and behold, what do we see, in Isaiah 6:6-7? We see one of the “burning ones” jumping into action by flying over to Isaiah with a hot ember and using it to burn his “wickedness” and “sin.” There it is – the reason why they have “six wings” each – they are sin burners!

In Raiders of the Lost Ark, the seraphim are very well portrayed at the end of the movie when they rise out of the ark and “play around” with the Nazis to familiarize themselves with their target – and then mercilessly incinerate them.

It’s fairly clear that John of Patmos merely copies Ezekiel and Isaiah’s imagery into the Book of Revelation, so that the “six-ness” of the wings of the “evil-burners” in Isaiah explains the “six-ness” of the wings in Revelation.
 
You may think, “Ah, darn! He got lucky!” But it’s not luck and it’s not cleverness by myself at meeting a challenge. The number types outlined above, as well as the dozens of non-number types, can always be interpreted so that they have the standard meaning assigned by them to Scripture, itself.

Sometimes it takes awhile to perceive the role of the standard typological meaning of the term in the sensus plenior, or higher sense meaning – but, it’s always there.
 
I think it is handy to have these generalizations about numbers around.

Every letter in Hebrew, I understand, also represents a number. So, some look for words that have the same numeric value, to see if there is a further connection.

Also, the webpage cited above is not exhaustive.

I used to listen to Harold Camping, a fundamentalist-type Bible teacher on Family Radio of Oakland CA. I have his list of numbers and their meanings laying around here someplace.

19 represents heaven.
5 can represent salvation or condemnation, depending on the context. For example, in the parable of the ten virgins, five were wise and had oil for their lamps when the bridegroom arrived, but five were foolish and were left outside in the darkness.

Camping would usually say something like, “if it means anything at all, then the number 2 represents the church.” This is a different spin on ‘2’ than on the referenced website. Note that Jesus sent out the disciples by 2’s to preach the good word. And, Adam and Eve, 2 people, made up the entire church in the beginning.

It’s an interesting subject, and perhaps you can learn more at www.familyradio.com.
 
Hey BR, don’t worry I’m here to learn, not to prove people wrong hehe, but this stuff really is interesting.

I have something else that came to mind, though. What do you make of Genesis 6:3 where God states that from then on man shall not live over about 120 years. I’ve always found this interesting because it’s also literally true right now!
 
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exoflare:
Hey BR, don’t worry I’m here to learn, not to prove people wrong hehe, but this stuff really is interesting.

I have something else that came to mind, though. What do you make of Genesis 6:3 where God states that from then on man shall not live over about 120 years. I’ve always found this interesting because it’s also literally true right now!
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Most scholars agree that the 120 yerars refers not to the longest human life, but rather to the number of years left bvefore the flood when God said, “120 years.”

Remember that large number types are MULTIPLICATIONS of the smaller numbers.

120 years was referring to evil folks.

My suspicion is that 120 = 10 x 6 x 2 = Ten Type, Six Type, Two Type = “very evil Church,” meaning “the very evil Old Testament Church,” perhaps foreshadowing our day, when there is certainly much evil in our Church, among the faithful.
 
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BibleReader:
Most scholars agree that the 120 yerars refers not to the longest human life, but rather to the number of years left bvefore the flood when God said, “120 years.”

Remember that large number types are MULTIPLICATIONS of the smaller numbers.

120 years was referring to evil folks.

My suspicion is that 120 = 10 x 6 x 2 = Ten Type, Six Type, Two Type = “very evil Church,” meaning “the very evil Old Testament Church,” perhaps foreshadowing our day, when there is certainly much evil in our Church, among the faithful.
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So in general, I guess the larger the number the more possible interpretations there could be?

I also happen to be reading through Luke right now and got to the part where the fish and bread are multiplied by Jesus for all the people to eat… I noticed there were FIVE loaves (Christ all right, in the Eucharist! :D) but I’m not sure how the two fish would allude to the Church.

This sure does add a whole new dimension to reading the Bible!
 
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exoflare:
So in general, I guess the larger the number the more possible interpretations there could be?

I also happen to be reading through Luke right now and got to the part where the fish and bread are multiplied by Jesus for all the people to eat… I noticed there were FIVE loaves (Christ all right, in the Eucharist! :D) but I’m not sure how the two fish would allude to the Church.

This sure does add a whole new dimension to reading the Bible!
Click to expand...
Hi, exoflare. Thank you for this conversation.

To a surprising extent, the fact that large numbers can be factored into larger numbers of combinations of multiples is not a significant barrier to interp.

Typically, context verifies which combination of factors is the correct interp. So, in the case of 120, the context was a discussion about how really evil the world was becoming, before the flood.

Additionally, usually, each multiple of 10 = “very much.” So, 30,000 usually = “very, very, very, very much” (10 x 10 x 10 x 10) “the will of God” (x 3).

Re “5 loaves” and “2 fishes,” “5” loaves = “Christ” bread.

To understand “2 fishes,” you have to understand something the Bible does.

The single most important concept in Bible typology is found at 2 Corinthians 5:21: Christ is “Him-Who-did-not-know-sin-Who-was-made-to-be-sin.”

By this Paul meant that, though Christ was the sinless blemishless lamb, as Christ volunteered to suffer terribly to pay the price for our sins exacted by God’s Own perfect justice, He functionally ended-up being treated as though He were sin, itself.

For this reason, the Bible very frequently foreshadows Christ with SIN or EVIL or DEVIL symbols. For example, Numbers 21:4-9 foreshadows Christ on the cross saving people from their sins with a bronze (blood colored) SERPENT on a pole, which cures snake bites if looked at.

Well, in the Bible the Abyss Type symbolizes “the sea of damnable souls,” so that the fish IN the sea of damnable souls = damnable souls. So, in John 21, we see the “boat” (Church) of Peter bringing-in a BIG haul of these “damnable souls” OUT OF the sea of damnable souls after Jesus’ resurrection.

Now, follow the following progression…

(a) In Mark 4:37-38, we see Jesus “asleep” (dead) in a “boat” (Church), as the “sea” (sea of damnable souls) buffets them wildly.

(b) In Jonah 1:4-16, we see a picture of Christ “asleep” (dead) in the “boat” (Church), and how Christ protects those in the “boat” (Church) by being sacrificed.

(c) In Jonah 2, when a large “fish” swallows Jonah, that is a picture of Christ “becoming” “Him-Who-did-not-know-sin-Who-was-made-to-be-sin,” to do that.

(d) In the Book of Tobit (after Nehemiah), at Tobit 6:-2-3, we see that big “Jesus fish” – Jesus in the form of “Him-Who-did-not-know-sin-Who-was-made-to-be-sin” – doing what Jesus resolves at Mark 9:45.

(e) So, when “2 fish” are served to the thousands on the mount, that is a picture of the flesh of “Him-Who-did-not-know-sin-Who-was-made-to-be-sin” being served “[by the] Church” (2).
 
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