Nun, 83, faces ‘life’ sentence in US after nuclear protest

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I find it hard to believe that so many here believe that the threat of violence is the only way to keep peace in the world.
Regardless of the technologies involved, defense is based upon reducing risk.

This includes remediating that which you intend to protect so that a threat cannot reach it or mitigation planning so that the impact that a threat will have if it does reach that which you intend to protect.

In the old days, remediation would be seen primarily with walls: the walls around a castle, the Great Wall of China, or Hadrian’s Wall in England. The Maginot line in France would be a more recent example. A more modern example would be the Strategic Defense Initiative, Patriot Missile Batteries, etc. A cyber example would be the firewall that you have on your home network.

In the old days, mitigation would be seen as the troops and walls that were behind the front line in case the forces broke through the wall. That is one reason why the French fell so quickly to Hitler: they had this belief that the Maginot line would be all that they needed and once the Germans blew beyond that, they didn’t have too much to back it up. You will see mitigation planning in action when you see an airfield where the hangars are dispersed, defense plants where the buildings seem to be located unusually far away from each other. You will also see it when you see a facility that has power lines coming in from different locations or a hospital with big generators. The antivirus you run on your computer and the backups that you do (you do backups, right?) are examples of mitigation planning you do at home.

It also involves the response if a threat actually acts against that which you wish to protect. A big part of that is deterrence. That’s where nukes come in. A threat agent who wants to launch a nuke against us needs to absolutely know that the consequence of those actions will be utterly unacceptable to that threat agent. As St Thomas Aquinas wrote (S.Th. II-II-108-3): “Vengeance is lawful and virtuous so far as it tends to the prevention of evil. Now some who are not influenced by motive of virtue are prevented from committing sin, through fear of losing those things which they love more than those they obtain by sinning, else fear would be no restraint to sin. Consequently vengeance for sin should be taken by depriving a man of what he loves most.”

Those who would want to unilaterally disarm the US are just as guilty of a vice as those who would have wanted the US to nuke Afghanistan for the sins of Al Qaeda. (S-Th-II-II-108-2 r3): “Two vices are opposed to vengeance: one by way of excess, namely, the sin of cruelty or brutality, which exceeds the measure in punishing: while the other is a vice by way of deficiency and consists in being remiss in punishing

Don’t get me wrong: I am not a fan of nukes. They are indiscriminate and very, very messy. They provide a bad actor (including, theoretically, a bad actor in the US Government) the opportunity to do incredible damage without any kind of personal exposure to danger. I would like to see them rendered obsolete. I would like to see us have the ability to remediate this country so that a nuke couldn’t reach our shores; I would like to see mitigation planning so that if the remediation hypothetically failed, the consequent impact would be minimized, and the ability to respond to an attack swiftly and surely so that a threat agent who would attack us with a nuke would pay…with the risk to our forces minimized.

But as of now, we don’t.

Sadly, the peaceniks who would have us unilaterally take down our nukes have no interest in us developing the technology to protect our country and respond to threats in such a way to make nukes obsolete.
 
It seems this Sister has been doing this for years. She’s part of the Plowshares Movement. From Wikipedia;
In the 1980s she became engaged in the anti-war movement. Since then she has engaged in protests against a variety of American military actions, military sites, and nuclear installations. Rice has been arrested more than three dozen times in acts of civil disobedience, including her anti-nuclear activism as a staff member of Nevada Desert Experience in Las Vegas at the Nevada Test Site and protests against the School of the Americas at Fort Benning, Georgia. She has served two six-month prison sentences resulting from trespasses during protests against the School of the Americas in 1997-99.
Rice became so known for her activism that the United States Department of Energy funded an oral history on her, to help understand her antinuclear views. On July 28, 2012, Rice, at 82 years old, and two fellow activists (Michael R. Walli, 63 years old, and Gregory I. Boertje-Obed, 57 years old) broke into the Y-12 National Security Complex in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, spray-painted antiwar slogans, and splashed blood on the outside of the heavily guarded Highly Enriched Uranium Materials Facility.[8] The three are members of the organization “Transform Now Plowshares”, a part of the Plowshares Movement, which references the Book of Isaiah’s call to “hammer their swords into plowshares”, i.e., convert weapons into peaceful tools. Justifying their infiltration of the Oak Ridge facility, the trio cited both Biblical verses calling for world peace and the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons as justifications. The New York Times reported that nuclear experts called this action “the biggest security breach in the history of the nation’s atomic complex.”
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megan_Rice
In 1999, not far from my home, four activists with the anti-war group Plowshares were arrested after they broke through a fence at the Maryland Air National Guard base and took a hammer to an A-10 Thunderbolt ll jet aircraft and threw blood on the plane. One of the arrested was a former priest arrested for civil disobedience more than 100 times. Now I don’t know about the rest of you posting here, but I respect the living daylights out of the Air Force, Navy, Marine, and Air Guard aviators who patrol the skies in defense of this Country! I’ve been to countless airshows, and the pilots that fly these aircraft are top notch! It sounds to me that the actions by the individuals partaking in this vandalism is NOT in keeping with Church Teachings…more like, activism run amok!

Peace, Mark
 
Has anyone else wondered where they got the blood to spray everywhere??
 
Has anyone else wondered where they got the blood to spray everywhere??
Well, since she has already proven that she is willing to break into a nuclear facility, it wouldn’t surprise me that she would be willing to break into a blood bank or hospital.
 
Those I knew who did this drew their own blood to “spray” around the site they were contaminating. Kinda sick, isn’t it.
 
Just an additional comment, after reading the post wondering if these folks broke into a blood bank or hospital…

This is just my experience, from when i was involved in a peace & justice group back in the 80s. The people who were “long timers” were extremely dedicated to their cause. They were people who lived simply, helped the poor, prayed. They weren’t people who would commit crimes normally…they considered their actions on the military bases or industrial places to be necessary crimes to prevent worse crimes (the death of people by nuclear weapons). Most of the people I knew in this arena were completely dedicated, and their entire lives revolved around it. Many had been to jail multiple times.

I did admire the dedication to their strong beliefs, even at the risk (and reality) of jail time. My problems grew as I saw disregard (and flaunting) of Catholic church authority and a refusal to include the evil of abortion as something heinous that must be stopped. Most of these people were highly educated, and many were priests and religious. I still don’t understand how they can have such a “disconnect” between these issues. Or why they didn’t see it was wrong to “use” their religious orders to finance things that were not right (the aforementioned “flaunting” of Church authority…I won’t go into details, but I saw stuff that was terribly wrong).
 
It seems this Sister has been doing this for years. She’s part of the Plowshares Movement. From Wikipedia;

In 1999, not far from my home, four activists with the anti-war group Plowshares were arrested after they broke through a fence at the Maryland Air National Guard base and took a hammer to an A-10 Thunderbolt ll jet aircraft and threw blood on the plane. One of the arrested was a former priest arrested for civil disobedience more than 100 times. Now I don’t know about the rest of you posting here, but I respect the living daylights out of the Air Force, Navy, Marine, and Air Guard aviators who patrol the skies in defense of this Country! I’ve been to countless airshows, and the pilots that fly these aircraft are top notch! It sounds to me that the actions by the individuals partaking in this vandalism is NOT in keeping with Church Teachings…more like, activism run amok!

Peace, Mark
America has claimed the moral high ground after WW2, it can do anything it likes, bombing Iraq because of fictional WMDs comes to mind.

If America can justify this kind of action, it seems to indicate that peaceful protest will not shift them, I admire the courage of these elderly nuns, taking huge risks for what they believe in.

Nelson Mandela strived for a peaceful solution after his imprisonment, America should look on his leadership as a role model, after all so many Americans recognised his achievements.
 
We are supposed to follow the law of the land.
So then nuns and Catholic women should just shut up and pay for birth control since that is the law of the land? Then in a few years they’ll have to not only pay for it but be expected to take it regardless of any silly little things little Religious Beliefs.
Yeah fine, she did something illegal. The she should be treated the same as anyone else having committed the crime she committed. They don’t get life, she shouldn’t get life. :coffeeread:
 
America has claimed the moral high ground after WW2, it can do anything it likes, bombing Iraq because of fictional WMDs comes to mind.

If America can justify this kind of action, it seems to indicate that peaceful protest will not shift them, I admire the courage of these elderly nuns, taking huge risks for what they believe in.

Nelson Mandela strived for a peaceful solution after his imprisonment, America should look on his leadership as a role model, after all so many Americans recognised his achievements.
Too bad Sister didn’t follow Nelson Mandela’s example. Trespassing and vandalism aren’t exactly a “peaceful solution”.
So then nuns and Catholic women should just shut up and pay for birth control since that is the law of the land? Then in a few years they’ll have to not only pay for it but be expected to take it regardless of any silly little things little Religious Beliefs.
:coffeeread:
It’s one thing to resist and/or disobey and unjust law such as the contraception mandate. It’s quite another to break a perfectly just law, even for a noble purpose.
Yeah fine, she did something illegal. The she should be treated the same as anyone else having committed the crime she committed. They don’t get life, she shouldn’t get life.
Do you have any reason to believe that she is being treated any differently than another repeat offender? The sentence being asked for is 6-9 years, not life.
 
Originally Posted by **Eric Hyom **
America has claimed the moral high ground after WW2, it can do anything it likes, bombing Iraq because of fictional WMDs comes to mind.

If America can justify this kind of action, it seems to indicate that peaceful protest will not shift them, I admire the courage of these elderly nuns, taking huge risks for what they believe in.

Nelson Mandela strived for a peaceful solution after his imprisonment, America should look on his leadership as a role model, after all so many Americans recognised his achievements.
Too bad Sister didn’t follow Nelson Mandela’s example. Trespassing and vandalism aren’t exactly a “peaceful solution”.

You dismiss bombing Iraq for fictional WMDs, by not answering, which seems to imply that you approve of their action. Tens of thousands died, the country has been destabilised, America and Britain have left Iraq in a worse state than it was before.

You talk about a peaceful solution, but only fifty years ago, the blacks in America suffered, segregation on buses; America is not exactly a democracy by choice, America was forced to become more fair by protest; that did get out of hand.

Fairness and truth are not given freely to people at the bottom of the pile, it has to be fought for, I admire the nuns.

Blessings

Eric
 
Do you have any reason to believe that she is being treated any differently than another repeat offender? The sentence being asked for is 6-9 years, not life
Look what happened to Nelson Mandela, after he was imprisoned for standing up for justice, a huge gathering around the world rallied behind him. A powerful surge for change.

People will suffer for injustice until change happens.

Blessings

Eric
 
So then nuns and Catholic women should just shut up and pay for birth control since that is the law of the land? Then in a few years they’ll have to not only pay for it but be expected to take it regardless of any silly little things little Religious Beliefs.
Yeah fine, she did something illegal. The she should be treated the same as anyone else having committed the crime she committed. They don’t get life, she shouldn’t get life. :coffeeread:
The only reason the article calls it a “life” sentence is because she is 83 (soon to be 84). 6-9 years could be the rest of her life. And it makes the headline more dramatic. 🤷

It does seem like a long sentence to me for what amounts to breaking and entering and vandalism. But I’m no legal expert.
 
You dismiss bombing Iraq for fictional WMDs, by not answering, which seems to imply that you approve of their action. Tens of thousands died, the country has been destabilised, America and Britain have left Iraq in a worse state than it was before.

Eric
That is completely false and unfair (and probably breaks a rule or two here). I don’t approve of Sister’s choice of how to protest that involves trespass and vandalism. That doesn’t mean that I don’t support her cause, let alone imply that I support her opponents in that cause.
You talk about a peaceful solution, but only fifty years ago, the blacks in America suffered, segregation on buses; America is not exactly a democracy by choice, America was forced to become more fair by protest; that did get out of hand.
Yes, some of those civil rights protests got out of hand. I know people who were injured and who had their homes burned in the protests. I don’t support those violent acts either. Those “out of control” incidents made progress in civil rights happen much slower than it would have by peaceful protests ala MLK or the students at the lunch counters.
 
Originally Posted by Eric Hyom
You dismiss bombing Iraq for fictional WMDs, by not answering, which seems to imply that you approve of their action. Tens of thousands died, the country has been destabilised, America and Britain have left Iraq in a worse state than it was before.
Corki;
That is completely false and unfair (and probably breaks a rule or two here). I don’t approve of Sister’s choice of how to protest that involves trespass and vandalism. That doesn’t mean that I don’t support her cause, let alone imply that I support her opponents in that cause.

My apologies, I did not mean to offend.

America has more nuclear weapons than any other country, and it seems to use its power to dictate which countries in the world can and cannot have nuclear weapons. I do not believe that America has the moral right to be a world dictator on nuclear weapons.

American law and policy are not necessarily just.
Corki
Yes, some of those civil rights protests got out of hand. I know people who were injured and who had their homes burned in the protests. I don’t support those violent acts either. Those “out of control” incidents made progress in civil rights happen much slower than it would have by peaceful protests ala MLK or the students at the lunch counters
Blacks should never have had to fight for equal rights to sit on a bus seat, America was unjust and immoral to have segregation. If America forced the blacks to protest for equality, then surely it is America that was in the wrong.
I noticed it would have been the birthday of Rosa Parks recently, a most remarkable lady.

The descendants of most Afro - Americans originated from slavery, our world struggles with human rights.

Rightly or wrongly; I look on the nun’s struggle in the same way.

Blessings

Eric
 
=Eric Hyom;11675766]You dismiss bombing Iraq for fictional WMDs, by not answering, which seems to imply that you approve of their action. Tens of thousands died, the country has been destabilised, America and Britain have left Iraq in a worse state than it was before.
That’s a ridiculous assertion. People respond to different parts of messages all the time.
You talk about a peaceful solution, but only fifty years ago, the blacks in America suffered, segregation on buses; America is not exactly a democracy by choice,
America never was a democracy; it’s a constitutional republic.
America was forced to become more fair by protest; that did get out of hand.
Dr. King may disagree. It got out of hand because sit-in participants and protesters were assaulted, which I don’t think is what you are getting at.
Fairness and truth are not given freely to people at the bottom of the pile, it has to be fought for, I admire the nuns.
The Truth was freely given by Christ who died on a cross.
 
America has more nuclear weapons than any other country, and it seems to use its power to dictate which countries in the world can and cannot have nuclear weapons. I do not believe that America has the moral right to be a world dictator on nuclear weapons.
If this is referring to Iran, a good chunk of the world doesn’t want them to have nuclear weapons, and for good reason.
 
Eric Hyom;
You dismiss bombing Iraq for fictional WMDs, by not answering, which seems to imply that you approve of their action. Tens of thousands died, the country has been destabilised, America and Britain have left Iraq in a worse state than it was before.
SuperLuigi;
That’s a ridiculous assertion. People respond to different parts of messages all the time.

Point taken, and I have already said that I did not intend to offend anyone, and sorry if I did. You are still free to comment on the other part of the post, America bombing Iraq, because of fictional WMDs
America never was a democracy; it’s a constitutional republic.
Why would that make it any different; for Americans to think segregation on buses is just and fair?
The Truth was freely given by Christ who died on a cross
A blessing to the world yesterday, today and tomorrow.
 
Eric Hyom
America has more nuclear weapons than any other country, and it seems to use its power to dictate which countries in the world can and cannot have nuclear weapons. I do not believe that America has the moral right to be a world dictator on nuclear weapons.
If this is referring to Iran, a good chunk of the world doesn’t want them to have nuclear weapons, and for good reason.

America is not always right, there are two million refugees, who fled Iraq, after the bombing of invisible WMDs. Thousands of innocent Iraqis have died from this war, they were created by the same God, who created you and me.

The nuns may well have a reason to protest.
 
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