Nun Accused Of Knuckle Sandwich Threat

[stumbler]

School Fires 69-Year-Old Sister
Dec 16, 2004

WOODBRIDGE, N.J. (AP) Officials have fired a nun at a Roman Catholic school in Woodbridge who is accused of threatening to give a sixth-grader a knuckle sandwich.

Sister Catherine Iacouzze was an assistant principal and the disciplinarian at Saint Cecelia School.

The 69-year-old was relieved of her teaching duties nearly a month after she allegedly told a pupil she would knock his teeth out. The boy had used the wrong stairwell.

The Methuchen Diocese says one of its teachers spoke to one of its children in a “threatening manner.”

The nun is scheduled to appear in municipal court to face a harassment charge on December 28th.

---

wcco.com/water/watercooler_story_351142641.html

 

[stumbler]

I think she was one of my teachers in grade school.
They must have taken her ruler away!

 

[Trelow]

I think more kids need their teeth knocked out. But some fear in the little turds and maybe they will behave. Thats the problem wiht kids today, no respectful fear of authority.

 

[Bob_Baran]

All right sister! I’ll be willing to bet that the kid deserved it!:clapping:

 

[MrS]

I can see it now… Judge rules against nun, calls her habitual offender, sentences her to life behind cloister bars. Also accuses her superiors of cover-up by hiding nun in strange garb (not the designer outfits seen on many nuns today).

 

[Bob_Baran]

MrS:

I can see it now… Judge rules against nun, calls her habitual offender, sentences her to life behind cloister bars. Also accuses her superiors of cover-up by hiding nun in strange garb (not the designer outfits seen on many nuns today).

Very good!

 

[Ray_Marshall]

I think that a goodly number of school administrators, both public and Catholic, need knuckle sandwiches three meals a day.

What happened?

I’m 62. We were all so hopeful in 1960 when we graduated from High School.

And we have turned into a society of absolute idiots, living in terror that somebody should be offended.

Maybe if more people were offended, the world wouldn’t be in such a mess.

We are in the early stages of a war, people.

Actually, I kind of know what happened.

About 20 years ago the American public turned greedy. They were tired of paying local taxes. And so they said, “Let the Federal government give us some money so we won’t have to pay taxes.”

And the Federal Government said, “Yippee, more things to do!”

And the first thing they said was, “We’re going to give you lots of money so that you can do all those things that you don’t want to pay for. Isn’t that great of us? We’ll have the people in some other state pay for it.”

And then they added, “Oh, by the way, we’re going to tie a few restrictions to those grants from us. Is that OK by you?” And we who don’t want to pay taxes, dollar signs dangling before our glazed eyes, said “Sure put on all the restrictions you want; we don’t mind as long as we get the money!”

And so the Federal Government hired a bunch of PhDs to make regulations pertaining to local education. Because they’re smarter, they know what’s best for you, and if you don’t like it, they just don’t give you any money. But they still have the regulations so you have to do what they say anyway. So your local taxes will go up.

I understand that there is a draft regulation that you will no longer be allowed to wear “green” to school because that is a “holy color” in some religions. And we can’t have somebody’s faith denigrated.

And, of course, any display or mention of Christmas or Easter within 3,000 yards of a public school is cause for immediate suspension because some pagan judge in California was offended by tinsel on the palm trees one year.

 

[Brad]

What a tragedy - this poor Sister who probably did the right thing:

1. get’s fired
2. has to stand trial

Are you kidding me? Line up all the bullies of the neighborhoods, anyone that has ever made an obscene gesture in a vehicle, anyone who has shouted at someone else and throw them in jail.

Whoops - nobody would be free.

You do realize the next step is child “harrassment” from parents - “you made poor Johnny sit in a chair for 10 minutes and he got a stiff neck”.

Every single parent at that school should be defending Sister.

 

[Lance]

In my day there would have been no threat. She would have just done it and when you got home you better lie and tell your dad that you fell out of a tree or something. If your parents found out that you were in trouble at school you were in danger of you life being taken.

 

[mercygate]

stumbler:

School Fires 69-Year-Old Sister
Dec 16, 2004

WOODBRIDGE, N.J. (AP) Officials have fired a nun at a Roman Catholic school in Woodbridge who is accused of threatening to give a sixth-grader a knuckle sandwich.

Sister Catherine Iacouzze was an assistant principal and the disciplinarian at Saint Cecelia School.

The 69-year-old was relieved of her teaching duties nearly a month after she allegedly told a pupil she would knock his teeth out. The boy had used the wrong stairwell.

The Methuchen Diocese says one of its teachers spoke to one of its children in a “threatening manner.”

The nun is scheduled to appear in municipal court to face a harassment charge on December 28th.

---

wcco.com/water/watercooler_story_351142641.html

Age 69 and still in an elementary classroom? I’ll bet she did it so she would get fired. It’s the only way to retire . . .

 

[Timidity]

Provided that the accounts are true, what this nun did was to assault a child. That’s hardly the “right thing.”

Now, I’m not opposed to corporeal punishment. In fact, years ago when the older kids were going to school in Texas, the school sent home a corporeal punishment permision slip, giving the school authority to inflict pants-on bottom paddling for disciplinary reasons. I can’t remember if it was the public school or the private school, but in any case we signed the slip.

But there’s a difference between a proportional, rational spanking, and an assault.

Having said all that, I suspect that the incident wasn’t a serious assault in any case. I suspect that we’re dealing with a jerk of a kid and a jerk of a nun. I suspect that when she spoke the “threat” that she exagerating the consequences in an attempt to use humor while still being stern.

Back when I was teaching community college, I noticed that some instructors would get student complaints to the administration all the time for doing stuff that other instructors did without issue. It wasn’t so much that the students were offended by the behavior in question as they were by the instructor’s general attitude, and the incident merely provided an excuse.

 

[Brad]

Timidity:

Provided that the accounts are true, what this nun did was to assault a child. That’s hardly the “right thing.”

Now, I’m not opposed to corporeal punishment. In fact, years ago when the older kids were going to school in Texas, the school sent home a corporeal punishment permision slip, giving the school authority to inflict pants-on bottom paddling for disciplinary reasons. I can’t remember if it was the public school or the private school, but in any case we signed the slip.

But there’s a difference between a proportional, rational spanking, and an assault.

Having said all that, I suspect that the incident wasn’t a serious assault in any case. I suspect that we’re dealing with a jerk of a kid and a jerk of a nun. I suspect that when she spoke the “threat” that she exagerating the consequences in an attempt to use humor while still being stern.

Back when I was teaching community college, I noticed that some instructors would get student complaints to the administration all the time for doing stuff that other instructors did without issue. It wasn’t so much that the students were offended by the behavior in question as they were by the instructor’s general attitude, and the incident merely provided an excuse.

A threat is not an assault. Enormous differnce. Often, a threat is used to prevent an assault or some other crime by whom is being threatened. They work very well with raising children. Not that I ever make this kind of threat - but I would say threats (pick up your room or no movies) are used multiple-times daily in most households.

If the kid was a jerk (and this is highly probable) then what he needed was exactly the fear of God - which is what Sister probably gave him. Now, he will continue unimpeded by discipline until he learns the hard way that disobeying authority leads to very bad consequences.

By the way, police officers use some pretty serious threats - if it wasn’t a good method of rule-breaking prevention, they wouldn’t be used.

To fire her or bring charges on a threat is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[wabrams]

Brad:

A threat is not an assault. Enormous differnce. Often, a threat is used to prevent an assault or some other crime by whom is being threatened. They work very well with raising children. Not that I ever make this kind of threat - but I would say threats (pick up your room or no movies) are used multiple-times daily in most households.

An assalut is a threat.

"merriam.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=assault

Main Entry: 1as·sault [merriam.com/images/audio.gif](javascriptopWin(’/cgi-bin/audio.pl?assaul01.wav=assault’))
Pronunciation: &-'solt
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English *assaut, *from Old French, from (assumed) Vulgar Latin *assaltus, *from assalire
1 a : a violent physical or verbal attack b : a military attack usually involving direct combat with enemy forces c : a concerted effort (as to reach a goal or defeat an adversary)
2 a : a threat or attempt to inflict offensive physical contact or bodily harm on a person (as by lifting a fist in a threatening manner) that puts the person in immediate danger of or in apprehension of such harm or contact – compare BATTERY 1b b : RAPE "

Besides, what good is a threat if you’re not willing to back it up. If the nun was willing to back it up, then that would be battery.

 

[Trelow]

wabrams:

An assalut is a threat.

"merriam.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=assault

Main Entry: 1asásault [merriam.com/images/audio.gif](javascriptopWin(’/cgi-bin/audio.pl?assaul01.wav=assault’))
Pronunciation: &-'solt
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English *assaut, *from Old French, from (assumed) Vulgar Latin *assaltus, *from assalire
1 a : a violent physical or verbal attack b : a military attack usually involving direct combat with enemy forces c : a concerted effort (as to reach a goal or defeat an adversary)
2 a : a threat or attempt to inflict offensive physical contact or bodily harm on a person (as by lifting a fist in a threatening manner) that puts the person in immediate danger of or in apprehension of such harm or contact – compare BATTERY 1b b : RAPE "

Besides, what good is a threat if you’re not willing to back it up. If the nun was willing to back it up, then that would be battery.

Pop him. He can always get a partial.

 

[otm]

I am still trying to figure out why a nun needs to threaten to knock a child’s teeth out because he was using the wrong stairs.

I went to grade and high school at a time when coporal punishment was administered; I sort of figured out the game plan in the first grade whn I got taken into the coat room in the first grade and had a ping pong paddle applied right smartly to my backside. That was the only incident for the next 11 1/2 years…

I still feel that corporal punishment can have merit; but it is too easy to apply too quickly, too often a sign that there is a lack of creativity in finding an apropriate punishment, often a sign of lack of control on the part of the administrator, and too easy to apply excessively.

The issue here, though, is not really corporal punishment. In spite of the comments of a number of individuals in this thread, I do not really believe that anyone here would really posit that a grade school child should be hit in the face hard enough to dislodge teeth. And that is what the nun said (assuming all facts are true).

The issue is the lack of respect that an adult showed to a child by threatening extreme violence for what appears to be a minor infraction (or, for that matter, making such a threat for just about any infraction).

Children don’t show respect? Yes, I can agree with that. But do you really thing that showing the child a lack of respect is going to instill respect in the child? The nun who paddled my behind didn’t go around the classroom issuing wild threats. She set down the rules, and what would happen if the rules weren’t followed, and then proceeded accordingly. She didn’t make threats; she made promises. And she kept the promises, within the bounds of fairness.

What this nun did had nothing to do with fairness; it was a response in anger, a showing of lack of emotional control, a disrespect to the integrity of the child and totally out of line. She was a bully.

And if someone got the district attorney to bring harrassment charges, then there is a bit more to the story than meets the eye.

 

[Brad]

wabrams:

An assalut is a threat.

"merriam.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=assault

Main Entry: 1as·sault [merriam.com/images/audio.gif](javascriptopWin(’/cgi-bin/audio.pl?assaul01.wav=assault’))
Pronunciation: &-'solt
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English *assaut, *from Old French, from (assumed) Vulgar Latin *assaltus, *from assalire
1 a : a violent physical or verbal attack b : a military attack usually involving direct combat with enemy forces c : a concerted effort (as to reach a goal or defeat an adversary)
2 a : a threat or attempt to inflict offensive physical contact or bodily harm on a person (as by lifting a fist in a threatening manner) that puts the person in immediate danger of or in apprehension of such harm or contact – compare BATTERY 1b b : RAPE "

Besides, what good is a threat if you’re not willing to back it up. If the nun was willing to back it up, then that would be battery.

It is not the same in the eyes of the law - huge difference. If you tell me you are going to punch me in the mouth, I could make a citizens arrest but it wouldn’t go anywhere. If you did punch me in the mouth - you’d be in trouble.

Do you know how many incidents would qualify as assult on schools today if you say this is an assault? The problem is that kids are responsible for most of them. Should we lock them all up?

 

[Brad]

otm:

I am still trying to figure out why a nun needs to threaten to knock a child’s teeth out because he was using the wrong stairs.

I went to grade and high school at a time when coporal punishment was administered; I sort of figured out the game plan in the first grade whn I got taken into the coat room in the first grade and had a ping pong paddle applied right smartly to my backside. That was the only incident for the next 11 1/2 years…

I still feel that corporal punishment can have merit; but it is too easy to apply too quickly, too often a sign that there is a lack of creativity in finding an apropriate punishment, often a sign of lack of control on the part of the administrator, and too easy to apply excessively.

The issue here, though, is not really corporal punishment. In spite of the comments of a number of individuals in this thread, I do not really believe that anyone here would really posit that a grade school child should be hit in the face hard enough to dislodge teeth. And that is what the nun said (assuming all facts are true).

The issue is the lack of respect that an adult showed to a child by threatening extreme violence for what appears to be a minor infraction (or, for that matter, making such a threat for just about any infraction).

Children don’t show respect? Yes, I can agree with that. But do you really thing that showing the child a lack of respect is going to instill respect in the child? The nun who paddled my behind didn’t go around the classroom issuing wild threats. She set down the rules, and what would happen if the rules weren’t followed, and then proceeded accordingly. She didn’t make threats; she made promises. And she kept the promises, within the bounds of fairness.

What this nun did had nothing to do with fairness; it was a response in anger, a showing of lack of emotional control, a disrespect to the integrity of the child and totally out of line. She was a bully.

And if someone got the district attorney to bring harrassment charges, then there is a bit more to the story than meets the eye.

The problem today is that a kid cannot even be sent to the principal’s office without parental complaint. If no discipline is allowed, situations escalate to the point where only a large-scale threat may have any impact.

I know of a school many years ago where large boys were literally put up against the wall and threatened. It didn’t take too many times of this before the kids stopped.

What we have today is no discipline - and we wonder why there are guns in school.

All it takes is one threat from an elderly sister and the whole school is afraid to get out of line - is that a bad thing? Instead we arrest the law-keeper and give free reign to the law breakers.

 

[buffalo]

Timidity:

Provided that the accounts are true, what this nun did was to assault a child. That’s hardly the “right thing.”

Now, I’m not opposed to corporeal punishment. In fact, years ago when the older kids were going to school in Texas, the school sent home a corporeal punishment permision slip, giving the school authority to inflict pants-on bottom paddling for disciplinary reasons. I can’t remember if it was the public school or the private school, but in any case we signed the slip.

But there's a difference between a proportional, rational spanking, and an assault.

Having said all that, I suspect that the incident wasn’t a serious assault in any case. I suspect that we’re dealing with a jerk of a kid and a jerk of a nun. I suspect that when she spoke the “threat” that she exagerating the consequences in an attempt to use humor while still being stern.

Back when I was teaching community college, I noticed that some instructors would get student complaints to the administration all the time for doing stuff that other instructors did without issue. It wasn’t so much that the students were offended by the behavior in question as they were by the instructor’s general attitude, and the incident merely provided an excuse.

\

It’s a figure of speech!!! A jerk of a nun? Amazing. Little kids are running the Big kids.

 

[Trelow]

Brad:

By the way, police officers use some pretty serious threats - if it wasn’t a good method of rule-breaking prevention, they wouldn’t be used.

The last time I was threatened by a police officer I was told to keep my hands where he could see them or he’d blow my mother-loving head off. Only with not as nice language.

Needless to say my hands stayed where he could see them.

 

[wabrams]

Brad:

It is not the same in the eyes of the law - huge difference. If you tell me you are going to punch me in the mouth, I could make a citizens arrest but it wouldn’t go anywhere. If you did punch me in the mouth - you’d be in trouble.

Do you know how many incidents would qualify as assult on schools today if you say this is an assault? The problem is that kids are responsible for most of them. Should we lock them all up?

It is the same in the eyes of the law. I took enough law classes as an undergraduate to be able to understand what the law says.