Nun Accused Of Knuckle Sandwich Threat

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otm:
If he had a reason to hit my kid the first time, I would have backed him.

The second time, he would have dealt with me.
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I suspect that’s not what happened in this case.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
 
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Exporter:
I raised 4 and saw hundreds during my 38 years in Public Schools.

Kids do not always tell the truth!!!

I could tell you many “war stories”. 90% of the time the kids are at fault. That 69 year old nun reminds me of an old nun who is assigned to the attendance office at a San Antonio Catholic Girls H.S.

The first day of school and the first day my daughter walked in the door, that old nun came to my daughter and said,“Julie! I am so glad to see you, can I borrow some money for lunch?” My daughter gave her the money. We found out that that nun thinks certain girls are Julie…who graduated 10 years ago. Funny, yes, but sad too.
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The question isn’t really about whether or not the child is at fault; I think everyone here would concede that he was on the wrong stairs. The question is the appropriateness of her response.
 
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Brad:
If you think the act of punching someone and the threat of punching someone are the same - they are not - in reality and in law.
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I don’t think they are the same, hence Assault and Battery (the threat and the act).
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Brad:
A person in authority has the right to make a threat if they deem it necessary. Especially when it is a widely known figure of speech which might simply mean “you will be in trouble”.
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If the nun was going to threaten the student then she should be fully willing to back it up. And if by backing it up was hitting the kid, then she doesn’t need to be teaching children (and I’m not talking about spanking).
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Brad:
If you are thinkint it is ok to arrest poor sister for this remark - then go become an anarchist.
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I don’t think she should be arrested for making the remark, but relieved of her duties in that school.
 
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otm:
That seeems to be the urban myth; I would question its literal truyth, both in the public schools and the private schools. And given this is a nun, I would guess that it was a private school, which has traditionally had a more structured and direct approach to discipline. Neither of us have enough facts to judge whether or not this school has little or no discipline, so I would gess that there are standard disciplinary proceedures in place rather than little or none.
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This is not an urban myth. I know many teachers that have their hands tied in the face of beligerent parents that want the schools to make everything right with their kids but not discipline them because they want to make up for the fact that they don’t spend enought time with their children. What the parent says in these cases - goes - especially if you have a weak administrator.
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otm:
There are threats and then there are threats. The kid was on the wrong stairs. She threatened to knock his teeth out. The threat is a bullying threat; if she had threatened him with a trip to the principal;s office, I would say that she was right on. She has no business threatening to knock someone’s teeth out. She appears, but the facts stated, to be out of control.

Again, the facts seem to indicate that she is looking at criminal charges (although it could be a lawsuit in civil court for harrassment); all of which would seem to indicate that there is more to this story than meets the eye. It takes a bit to get the D.A. to take action; it is expensive to hire an attorney for a civil case. I strongly suspect that this is not a first incident, and that there may be more to the incident than we are being told.
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The facts are that she faces criminal charges. I’m arguing that this is ridiculous. You seem to put an undue amount of trust in
a) the child and b) the anti-Catholic secular culture that would be more than willing to prosecute a sister.

This is not a civil case. It is a criminal case. It doesn’t take any more money than would be paid to the DA’s office by taxpayers anyways.

I don’t know if you have noticed but there is a real problem in child discipline these days, not a real problem with elderly sisters beating up school kids. That might have been the case in 1945 but not today. There is more than meets the eye. And you are assuming it is all on sister beating kids up and not the kid ignoring authority. That’s quite an imagination.
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otm:
Further more, if you wish to get respect, you show respect. That doesn’t mean, in any way, shape, or form that you let kids run hog wild, or that you don’t correct them. what she said I do not take as a joke, and she very plainly showed no respect.
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You are right. The child showed no respect by ignoring authority and thus was threatened with punishment. He was breaking a commandment correct?
 
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otm:
The question isn’t really about whether or not the child is at fault; I think everyone here would concede that he was on the wrong stairs. The question is the appropriateness of her response.
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You think her response justifies loss of pay, humiliation, and imprisonment even though she was trying to right a wrong (although not always having the best choice of words)?
 
Irish Melkite:
Brad,

Sorry, but it is, in the absence of a codification of Common Law to the contrary, an assault is an offer to do harm or causing another to be in fear that they will be harmed. The offer can be physical - a gesture suggesting same - or verbal - a threat. A battery is the consummation of an assault.

That an adult, in the teaching profession, a member of a religious community, 69 years old, would make such a statement to a child for the heinous offense of using the wrong stairwell is an indicator that she should have retired long ago. Her judgement is suspect and she certainly does not belong in an educational setting.

Many years,

Neil
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I agree with you completely Neil.

Emmy
 
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wabrams:
If the nun was going to threaten the student then she should be fully willing to back it up. And if by backing it up was hitting the kid, then she doesn’t need to be teaching children (and I’m not talking about spanking).
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I don’t think she was willing to back it up. She probably wasn’t even capable of backing it up (no way she could even catch the kid). You think she should be fired for making a threat she wasn’t willing to back up on one occasion? Better think about firing every single parent.
 
Threatening a student with bodily harm is not an appropriate means of discipline.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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Emmy:
I agree with you completely Neil.

Emmy
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You all need to review the 4th commandment. As Catholics, it is still applicable. To not defend this sister who has committed her life to the Church, is deplorable. If you want the secular culture to reign, then join it - but don’t push your twisted ideas in the Church.
 
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Brad:
You all need to review the 4th commandment. As Catholics, it is still applicable. To not defend this sister who has committed her life to the Church, is deplorable. If you want the secular culture to reign, then join it - but don’t push your twisted ideas in the Church.
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I don´t have twisted ideas. It is wrong to threaten students.

Emmy
 
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mlchance:
Threatening a student with bodily harm is not an appropriate means of discipline.

– Mark L. Chance.
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You’ve never heard a figure of speech before? Do you think all parents that tell their kids “I’m going to strangle you” should be put away for life? It does happen you know - probably daily without it ever being acted upon.
 
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Brad:
I don’t think she was willing to back it up. She probably wasn’t even capable of backing it up (no way she could even catch the kid). You think she should be fired for making a threat she wasn’t willing to back up on one occasion? Better think about firing every single parent.
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I have no respect for someone who will not back up a threat. Growing up, if I was threatened w/ a disciplinary act and I didn’t straighten up, then that threat came true. Any parent who is going to make a threat and not back it up needs to take a serious look at their parenting skills. Reminds me of the parents that threaten their kids 20 times with a spanking but never do it no matter how much that kid keeps acting up. It shows the kid that there is no consiquince for their actions and teaches them not to respect authority.

If the nun wasn’t willing to back any threat of punishment up, then she needs to keep her big mouth shut.

So Brad, do you makes threats that you have no intentions of backing up?
 
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Emmy:
I don´t have twisted ideas. It is wrong to threaten students.

Emmy
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It is not. God made plenty of threats. They are called curses. You break the covenant, you invoke the curse.

Kids get threatened to be sent to the principal’s office or even expelled. Many of them deserve it.

You think a kid that slugs another kid shouldn’t be threatened?
 
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wabrams:
I have no respect for someone who will not back up a threat. Growing up, if I was threatened w/ a disciplinary act and I didn’t straighten up, then that threat came true. Any parent who is going to make a threat and not back it up needs to take a serious look at their parenting skills. Reminds me of the parents that threaten their kids 20 times with a spanking but never do it no matter how much that kid keeps acting up. It shows the kid that there is no consiquince for their actions and teaches them not to respect authority.

If the nun wasn’t willing to back any threat of punishment up, then she needs to keep her big mouth shut.

So Brad, do you makes threats that you have no intentions of backing up?
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Are you going to arrest me if I do?

Do you have kids?
 
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Brad:
Are you going to arrest me if I do?
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Only if it will get you off your rant. 😃
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Brad:
Do you have kids?
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No I do not. I only have my experiences of growing up to rely on. But I assure you this, I was never heard “I’m gonna choke you” or anything to that effect. You did what they said or you were spanked; end of story.
 
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wabrams:
Only if it will get you off your rant. 😃
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It’s not me ranting. It is all of you that want to burn sister at the stake.
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wabrams:
No I do not. I only have my experiences of growing up to rely on. But I assure you this, I was never heard “I’m gonna choke you” or anything to that effect. You did what they said or you were spanked; end of story.
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Huge difference in perspective my friend. I’m as consistent as they come and yet have made threats I didn’t back up. I didn’t like it but until you have kids you won’t fully understand how sometimes changing your mind and/or using figures of speech are important parts of teaching children. And, yes, sometimes you make mistakes. You might blurt out a threat overly severe for the crime and then re-tract - in the heat of the moment it happens - it’s called being human.

So, lighten up on Sis, please.
 
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Brad:
You’ve never heard a figure of speech before?
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I teach middle school history and English. I’m well-versed in what figures of speech are. Threatening a student with bodily harm is not an appropriate method of enforcing discipline.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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mlchance:
I teach middle school history and English. I’m well-versed in what figures of speech are. Threatening a student with bodily harm is not an appropriate method of enforcing discipline.

– Mark L. Chance.
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I agree.
By the time they are in 6th grade, no more warnings.
You act up, you are going to be getting back up.
 
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Brad:
Huge difference in perspective my friend. I’m as consistent as they come and yet have made threats I didn’t back up. I didn’t like it but until you have kids you won’t fully understand how sometimes changing your mind and/or using figures of speech are important parts of teaching children. And, yes, sometimes you make mistakes. You might blurt out a threat overly severe for the crime and then re-tract - in the heat of the moment it happens - it’s called being human.

So, lighten up on Sis, please.
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I didn’t mean to imply that parents don’t make mistakes and I know parents are human. But I will NOT lighten up on an educator that makes physically violent threats against a kid. Spanking is one thing, hitting is another.
 
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