Nun Automatically Excommunicated For Approving Abortion

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Bishop Thomas Olmstead of the Diocese of Phoenix has confirmed that Sister Margaret McBride of Phoenix’ Saint Joseph’s Hospital and Medical Center had incurred an automatic excommunication or latae sententiae excommunication. What this means is as soon as the offense is committed Sister McBride was automatically excommunicated by her own actions[1].

Sister Margaret McBride made the decision to kill a critically ill mother’s innocent unborn child because there was a high risk of the mother not surviving the innocent child’s birth. In essence Sister McBride allowed for an abortion.

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[azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2010/05/15/20100515phoenix-catholic-nun-abortion.html](http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2010/05/15/20100515phoenix-catholic-nun-abortion.html)

Nun at St. Joseph's Hospital rebuked over abortion to save woman
 
What is the religious congregation’s obligation when one of its own is excommunicated? Does anyone know?
 
Corki said:
What is the religious congregation’s obligation when one of its own is excommunicated? Does anyone know?
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The religious congregation has an obligation to ensure that their members strictly abide by Catholic ethics. Each congregation have their established procedures for dealing with non-compliance which, at the low end could enforce a re-assignment or leave of absence. And, at the extreme end, a call for dismissal of the member.
 
MugenOne said:
Why American nuns are so anti-Catholic teaching?
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Lets not be too quick to jump to conclusions here. It appears that this was a rather high stress medical situation and perhaps something of a misjudgement rather than a rejection of catholic teaching.

Best to leave it in the hands of the Diocese and her fiath community for now.

Peace
James
 
JRKH said:
Lets not be too quick to jump to conclusions here. It appears that this was a rather high stress medical situation and perhaps something of a misjudgement rather than a rejection of catholic teaching.

Best to leave it in the hands of the Diocese and her fiath community for now.

Peace
James
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Exactly. Medically speaking, this was a lose-lose situation, not matter what is done. This is a pretty sick woman. Let the Diocese, Sister and the community work it out. It’s easy to judge from the outside looking in, but this wasn’t a simple case. In fact, it was quite difficult. We should be praying for all involved.
 
JRKH and Rence.

It was a very simple medical case.
Catholics do NOT provide, support or advise abortion as a “cure” for anything.
Catholics do NOT provide, support or advise abortion for any reason, ever.

I’ve served on the Ethics committee of a Catholic medical center.
I can’t think of any committee member who would even suggest abortion.

Yes, we leave it in the hands of the Church for resolution and disposition.
However, I applaud the Bishop for jumping on this horror and taking initial action.
We can’t pretend there could be any justification for the actions of this Mercy “nun.”
It’s a mockery of Faith to suggest there could be any reason for this in a Catholic MedCen.
 
She had pulmonary hypertension, which had become life-threatening due to her pregnancy. I am pro-life, but what is the standard Catholic treatment for this situation? I can’t find any answer anywhere, and when I was pro-choice, life of the mother was the reason why, and, being Catholic, that was the only situation in which I could understand an abortion happening. I was then told that the only situation in which the life of the mother was indeed threatened was in an ectopic pregnancy, and that a salpingectomy is an acceptable treatment, and the only one that the Catholic Church teaches is allowable.

So, I really need to know: what is it that the Church teaches is acceptable treatment for pulmonary hypertension which has become life-threatening because of a pregnancy? I understand most medical jargon, too, if that’s the only way in which to describe it.
 
I haven’t been catholic for very long, so I don’t understand this completely. Why doesn’t the concept of self defense apply to this?
 
ferreus said:
I haven’t been catholic for very long, so I don’t understand this completely. Why doesn’t the concept of self defense apply to this?
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Because the Child is not attacking the mother. The Child, just like the mother, remains innocent.

Peace
James
 
MugenOne said:
Why American nuns are so anti-Catholic teaching?
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one nun is not all American nuns
please don’t make unfounded accusations and generalizations, does not further the discussion in any way
here are the google results for search on pulmonary hypertension in pregnancy
google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7HPIA_en&ei=bD3xS5azCIXENNPQkCM&sa=X&oi=spellfullpage&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=2&ved=0CBYQvwUoAQ&q=pulmonary+hypertension+in+pregnancy&spell=1
a quick glance at the first few articles show management on a case by case basis from cardiologist, pulmonologist, OG-gyn and other specialists dedicated to saving both the baby and the mother, with medical, drug and other conservative managment is the preferred course of action. That is and always has been the Catholic viewpoint, that the doctors have 2 patients and do their best for both. Yes it is possible a caesarean may have to be performed earlier in gestation than optimal, which is not abortion because it’s intent is not to kill the baby but to deliver it alive.
 
puzzleannie said:
one nun is not all American nuns
please don’t make unfounded accusations and generalizations, does not further the discussion in any way
here are the google results for search on pulmonary hypertension in pregnancy
google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7HPIA_en&ei=bD3xS5azCIXENNPQkCM&sa=X&oi=spellfullpage&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=2&ved=0CBYQvwUoAQ&q=pulmonary+hypertension+in+pregnancy&spell=1

**a quick glance at the first few articles show management on a case by case basis from cardiologist, pulmonologist, OG-gyn and other specialists dedicated to saving both the baby and the mother, with medical, drug and other conservative managment is the preferred course of action. That is and always has been the Catholic viewpoint, that the doctors have 2 patients and do their best for both. **Yes it is possible a caesarean may have to be performed earlier in gestation than optimal, which is not abortion because it’s intent is not to kill the baby but to deliver it alive.
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So simple.

:flowers:

:blessyou:
 
catharina said:
JRKH and Rence.

It was a very simple medical case.
Catholics do NOT provide, support or advise abortion as a “cure” for anything.
Catholics do NOT provide, support or advise abortion for any reason, ever.

I’ve served on the Ethics committee of a Catholic medical center.
I can’t think of any committee member who would even suggest abortion.

Yes, we leave it in the hands of the Church for resolution and disposition.
However, I applaud the Bishop for jumping on this horror and taking initial action.
We can’t pretend there could be any justification for the actions of this Mercy “nun.”
It’s a mockery of Faith to suggest there could be any reason for this in a Catholic MedCen.
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Catharina,
JRKH and Rence, to my reading, are not ‘pretending’ that there could be any justification. They are also not mocking the Faith.
They’re asking for prayers and charity (and perhaps some restraint) when considering the mindset of the Sister and of the ethics committee. The fact is that this is already in the hands of the Archbishop. It doesn’t do much spiritually for us to pretend that we know her heart, her conscience, and mind (your own experience on a hospital ethics committee notwithstanding).
We can objectively say, ‘These actions are wrong and very obviously NOT in accord with Catholic Teaching.’. Beyond that, all we should do with regards to the sister herself is pray pray pray!

CDelphine
 
Santi2 said:
If that were the case, then the hospital ought to have treated her ailment…not kill the child.
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Exactly. A treatment cannot be the INTENTIONAL murder of an innocent life.

If a treatment (to save the life of a person) had the unintended cause of loss of life to an innocent life, it’s a different matter altogether.
 
CDelphine said:
Catharina,
JRKH and Rence, to my reading, are not ‘pretending’ that there could be any justification. They are also not mocking the Faith.
They’re asking for prayers and charity (and perhaps some restraint) when considering the mindset of the Sister and of the ethics committee. The fact is that this is already in the hands of the Archbishop. It doesn’t do much spiritually for us to pretend that we know her heart, her conscience, and mind (your own experience on a hospital ethics committee notwithstanding).
We can objectively say, ‘These actions are wrong and very obviously NOT in accord with Catholic Teaching.’. Beyond that, all we should do with regards to the sister herself is pray pray pray!

CDelphine
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Many many many others besides the sister deserve our prayers - like the Bishop himself, the community of Sisters who run the hospital and support sister, those who could have (would have) been touched by this mother and child if this Catholic hospital had not provided abortion “services” and all those young (or old) and innocent who are shattered and scandalized by the revelation of Sister’s choice.

The fact is also that much “restraint” has gone into keeping this abortion a secret, to the extent that the Bishop has only recently learned of it. Someone must have decided ‘to heck with restraint’ and he/she passed the news to the diocese. Bravo for that lack of restraint. It is ludicrous to pretend that any sister is without the intelligence and education to see this “option” of abortion as a NO-GO. Sisters in her community are usually in possession of multiple degrees. They have lots of time for reflection. They are very well-housed, dressed and fed. As a Catholic, am I to say ‘oh, poor sister … guess she got really confused … .?’ I can say I’ll pray for her; I’ve done so and will continue to do so but this kind of deadly secrecy regarding abortion in a CATHOLIC setting is a scandal in itself. It is infuriating. Would you want your pregnant daughter or DIL in a Catholic setting that presents the option of abortion?

I hope not.

I worked with young pregnant girls/women in a Catholic hospital setting

In two years, I attended 100 deliveries.
I saw four babies die.
Yet NONE of them were killed.
 
catharina said:
As a Catholic, am I to say ‘oh, poor sister … guess she got really confused … .?’ I can say I’ll pray for her; I’ve done so and will continue to do so but this kind of deadly secrecy regarding abortion in a CATHOLIC setting is a scandal in itself. It is infuriating. Would you want your pregnant daughter or DIL in a Catholic setting that presents the option of abortion?

I hope not.
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With particular regard to our analysis of her mind, heart and conscience, as Catholics we are neither to excuse her nor to condemn her by pretending that we know her conscience. That’s where I’m calling for restraint in this thread. The same restraint I would ask of you in reading my response to you, and then questioning whether I personally would want my pregnant daughter or DIL in a ‘Catholic’ setting that presents the option of abortion. That says to me that because I disagreed with your tone, that my assent to this particular teaching is questionable. And I will tell you right here that I do not waver or equivocate in matters of abortion.
Those of us who ask for a charitable and prayerful reaction to these clearly horrifying events are not (necessarily) lacking in faith or assent.
 
CDelphine said:
With particular regard to our analysis of her mind, heart and conscience, as Catholics we are neither to excuse her nor to condemn her by pretending that we know her conscience. That’s where I’m calling for restraint in this thread. The same restraint I would ask of you in reading my response to you, and then questioning whether I personally would want my pregnant daughter or DIL in a ‘Catholic’ setting that presents the option of abortion. That says to me that because I disagreed with your tone, that my assent to this particular teaching is questionable. And I will tell you right here that I do not waver or equivocate in matters of abortion.
Those of us who ask for a charitable and prayerful reaction to these clearly horrifying events are not (necessarily) lacking in faith or assent.
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Well, thank you for clarifying your own position, a needed clarification, IMO.
As for Margaret McBride, yes, she needs prayers.
Her community also needs prayers and those who kept the “secret” need prayers.

The Bishop surely needs our prayers because he will be demonized for his stance.
(Check google. It’s already underway.) Yet he is the hero in this if one can be found.
He made the news PUBLIC and spoke to acts of M. McBride in re to the abortion.
Her actions automatically incurred her excommunication. That fact needed to be stated.
 
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