Nun's Death Rallies Anti-Immigration Forces [CN-USA]

[Catholic_Press]

WASHINGTON - In Arizona, the shooting death of a rancher blew the lid off simmering anger over border security and helped solidify support for a tough new immigration law. A similar eruption threatens in Virginia following the death of a Catholic nun in a car accident involving a man in the country illegally and accused of drunken driving.

More…

 

[Holly3278]

It is really sad that the nun was killed but I still don’t think that it justifies Arizona-type laws.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

WASHINGTON - In Arizona, the shooting death of a rancher blew the lid off simmering anger over border security and helped solidify support for a tough new immigration law. A similar eruption threatens in Virginia following the death of a Catholic nun in a car accident involving a man in the country illegally and accused of drunken driving.

More…

No one gets to call illegal aliens ‘immigrants’ on my watch. It is a slap in the face not only to our sovereign law, but to all those immigrants who came here legally and who have contributed so much to society.

 

[Dale_M]

No one gets to call illegal aliens ‘immigrants’ on my watch. It is a slap in the face not only to our sovereign law, but to all those immigrants who came here legally and who have contributed so much to society.

An immigrant can enter a country legally, such as those you praise, or they can so so illegally. The word immigrant simply refers to someone who has moved into another region.
(Immigrant, being derived from the word immigrate, which is from the Latin pp. of imigrare “to remove, go into, move in,” from in- “in” + migrare “to move”)
etymonline.com/index.php?term=immigrate

As for this news story, individuals who are especially concerned about illegal immigration sometimes like to talk about crimes committed by illegal immigrants. Perhaps it would be good to wait until the grieving of loved ones is less intense.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

There is a definite movement by enemies of peace and freedom to blur the lines between illegal aliens and immigrants.

This will not stand muster.

And we the people are sick of moral relativism.

When we merely seek to enforce our own nation’s just laws we are called bigots and homophobes. Enough is enough. The sleeping giant has awakened.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

As for this news story, individuals who are especially concerned about illegal immigration sometimes like to talk about crimes committed by illegal immigrants. Perhaps it would be good to wait until the grieving of loved ones is less intense.

In this case it’s not the ones who are grieving who are calling for vengeance.

There’s a lovely article from the Washington Post here: newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/undergod/2010/08/forgiveness_at_benedictine_nuns_silent_retreat.html

Sisters who spoke yesterday said they were disturbed to see their tragedy linked to the seething national debate about immigration. “That’s not part of our story,” Verchuck said at lunchtime.

“We would like to refocus attention on the consequences of drinking and driving, and on Christ’s command to forgive,” said a statement the order released yesterday. “We are also confident that responses of mercy and forgiveness, though not usually easy, are not optional for Christians.”

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Absolutely, mercy and forgiveness are paramount for Christians.

However, that does not mean that justice should be neglected in order to provide mercy **without **justice.

As the situation stands, this young man from Bolivia was caught twice before and ordered to undergo treatment and jail time, but was released on serving just a fraction of the time, and was never adequately supervised or required to followup. His family state that for years they tried to convince him to get the treatment he needed.

This young man apparently spent most of his formative years here in the U.S., attending school here from 3rd grade onward. This is not someone who has come ‘recently’ and has little knowledge of the system or little support.

Yet we cannot judge all people as equally ‘culpable’ because this one young man who happens to be here illegally committed a crime. Plenty of ‘native’ Americans have been guilty of driving drunk, not going to treatment, etc., exactly like this young man. His being here illegally, in other words, did not make him more likely to be a criminal than a person here legally. He possesses the same ‘free will’ that we all possess.

Mercy and justice for this young man would not be the same perhaps as for a young person who was likewise brought here as a child illegally, whose lifestyle was one of hard work and lawful behavior outside that one example (and of course, a person brought here as a child did not himself choose to break the law at that time). . .that ‘law abiding’ illegal immigrant might be given amnesty gladly for he would have shown his intention to obey laws now that he was old enough to choose for himself.

An illegal immigrant who was guilty however of other unlawful behaviors on TOP of already being here illegally (even if the original entrance was not his choice due to young age) might not be offered amnesty and a chance to become ‘legal’ because he is showing that even if he did not choose to enter illegally himself, he would freely as an adult choose OTHER wrong behaviors.

And this would be both merciful and just–merciful to those who were ‘hurt’ by the wrong behavior, merciful to the perpetrator as well in being aware that ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES. One would not give this man a ‘greater’ sentence (in the event of trial and conviction) than another, but ‘mercy’ and forgiveness do not mean that one blindly ‘forgets’ and leaves the conditions ripe for other wrong actions to keep multiplying, IMHO.

 

[MugenOne]

If you cross the North Korean border illegally you get 12 years hard labor.

If you cross the Iranian border illegally you are detained indefinitely.

If you cross the Afghan border illegally, you get shot.

If you cross the Saudi Arabian border illegally you will be jailed.

If you cross the Chinese border illegally you may never be heard from again.

If you cross the Venezuelan border illegally you will be branded a spy, and your fate will be sealed.

If you cross the Mexican borders illegally you will jailed for two years.

If you cross the Cuban border illegally you will be thrown into political prison to rot.

If you cross the United States border illegally you get:

1 - A job
2 - A driver’s license
3 - A Social Security card
4 - Welfare
5 - Food stamps
6 - Credit cards
7 - Subsidized rent or a loan to buy a house
8 - Free education
9 - Free health care
10 - A lobbyist in Washington
11 - Billions of dollars in public documents printed in your language
12 - Millions of servicemen and women who are willing to - and do - die for your right to the ways and means of our constitution
13 - And the right to carry the flag of your country - the one you walked out on - while you call America racist and protest that you don’t get enough respect.

 

[Stylites]

If you cross the North Korean border . . .

Not so sure what this has to do with forgiveness, unless we should be as unforgiving as atheistic North Koreans, I suppose.

 

[Dale_M]

If you cross the North Korean border illegally you get 12 years hard labor.

Wait a minute… are you saying that you want the US to be like North Korea? Or Iran? Or Afghanistan?

I’m not sure that the benefits you claim are automatically given to illegal immigrants, but perhaps the US would be better off imitating the policies of countries such as Canada or Germany or Spain or other developed Western nations, rather than the most despotic regimes on the planet.

 

[MugenOne]

I was being sarcastic.

Wait a minute… are you saying that you want the US to be like North Korea? Or Iran? Or Afghanistan?

I’m not sure that the benefits you claim are automatically given to illegal immigrants, but perhaps the US would be better off imitating the policies of countries such as Canada or Germany or Spain or other developed Western nations, rather than the most despotic regimes on the planet.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

If you cross the North Korean border illegally you get 12 years hard labor.

If you cross the Iranian border illegally you are detained indefinitely.

If you cross the Afghan border illegally, you get shot.

If you cross the Saudi Arabian border illegally you will be jailed.

If you cross the Chinese border illegally you may never be heard from again.

If you cross the Venezuelan border illegally you will be branded a spy, and your fate will be sealed.

If you cross the Mexican borders illegally you will jailed for two years.

If you cross the Cuban border illegally you will be thrown into political prison to rot.

If you cross the United States border illegally you get:

1 - A job
2 - A driver’s license
3 - A Social Security card
4 - Welfare
5 - Food stamps
6 - Credit cards
7 - Subsidized rent or a loan to buy a house
8 - Free education
9 - Free health care
10 - A lobbyist in Washington
11 - Billions of dollars in public documents printed in your language
12 - Millions of servicemen and women who are willing to - and do - die for your right to the ways and means of our constitution
13 - And the right to carry the flag of your country - the one you walked out on - while you call America racist and protest that you don’t get enough respect.

Now listen to the howls of outrage…

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Wait a minute… are you saying that you want the US to be like North Korea? Or Iran? Or Afghanistan?

I’m not sure that the benefits you claim are automatically given to illegal immigrants, but perhaps the US would be better off imitating the policies of countries such as Canada or Germany or Spain or other developed Western nations, rather than the most despotic regimes on the planet.

The USA would be better off enforcing its OWN laws against illegal aliens.

 

[kimmielittle]

Absolutely, mercy and forgiveness are paramount for Christians.

However, that does not mean that justice should be neglected in order to provide mercy **without **justice.

As the situation stands, this young man from Bolivia was caught twice before and ordered to undergo treatment and jail time, but was released on serving just a fraction of the time, and was never adequately supervised or required to followup. His family state that for years they tried to convince him to get the treatment he needed.

This young man apparently spent most of his formative years here in the U.S., attending school here from 3rd grade onward. This is not someone who has come ‘recently’ and has little knowledge of the system or little support.

Yet we cannot judge all people as equally ‘culpable’ because this one young man who happens to be here illegally committed a crime. Plenty of ‘native’ Americans have been guilty of driving drunk, not going to treatment, etc., exactly like this young man. His being here illegally, in other words, did not make him more likely to be a criminal than a person here legally. He possesses the same ‘free will’ that we all possess.

Mercy and justice for this young man would not be the same perhaps as for a young person who was likewise brought here as a child illegally, whose lifestyle was one of hard work and lawful behavior outside that one example (and of course, a person brought here as a child did not himself choose to break the law at that time). . .that ‘law abiding’ illegal immigrant might be given amnesty gladly for he would have shown his intention to obey laws now that he was old enough to choose for himself.

An illegal immigrant who was guilty however of other unlawful behaviors on TOP of already being here illegally (even if the original entrance was not his choice due to young age) might not be offered amnesty and a chance to become ‘legal’ because he is showing that even if he did not choose to enter illegally himself, he would freely as an adult choose OTHER wrong behaviors.

And this would be both merciful and just–merciful to those who were ‘hurt’ by the wrong behavior, merciful to the perpetrator as well in being aware that ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES. One would not give this man a ‘greater’ sentence (in the event of trial and conviction) than another, but ‘mercy’ and forgiveness do not mean that one blindly ‘forgets’ and leaves the conditions ripe for other wrong actions to keep multiplying, IMHO.

:clapping::clapping:

 

[kimmielittle]

but perhaps the US would be better off imitating the policies of countries such as Canada or Germany or Spain or other developed Western nations,

Sorry, you’ve lost me on your logic here. First, the US takes in more LEGAL immigrants than all of these countries combined.

Now as for ILLEGALS …here is what is happening in Canada.

We expect it will land either late (Thursday) evening or early Friday morning," a senior federal official said Wednesday of the ship, called the MV Sun Sea.The vessel was met by a Canadian navy ship from Canadian Forces Base Esquimalt in B.C. when it reached Canadian territorial waters. It is unclear at what time that happened.
The ship is thought to be engaged in “human smuggling and human trafficking, which is obviously a very dangerous thing,” the federal official said, adding Canada has unconfirmed reports that one of the passengers has died.
The government fears other migrant ships may be on the way. It appears “we are becoming a target of human smugglers and human traffickers,” the federal official said.
“We are looking to send a message to these people who are usually (part of) criminal organizations, in some cases with possible terrorist connections in the case of the Tamil Tigers . . . that we are not going to allow our laws to be broken.”

The ship will likely be boarded by the Canadian Border Services Agency, and then directed to Victoria harbour. When the cargo ship makes landfall, it’s expected the passengers will be processed by Citizenship and Immigration Canada officials before being taken to two Vancouver-area jails to be housed.

canada.com/news/Canadian+government+confirms+Tamil+ship+approaching+coast/3386356/story.html

 

[Dale_M]

Sorry, you’ve lost me on your logic here. First, the US takes in more LEGAL immigrants than all of these countries combined.

I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to be confusing. I was responding to a post which cited how various oppressive regimes treated illegal immigrants. The post seemed to suggest that this should be the model for how the US should treat illegal immigrants.

I am not sure, from your example, that Canada treats illegal immigrants any differently than does the US.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

You mean illegal ALIENS.

 

[kimmielittle]

I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to be confusing. I was responding to a post which cited how various oppressive regimes treated illegal immigrants. The post seemed to suggest that this should be the model for how the US should treat illegal immigrants.

I am not sure, from your example, that Canada treats illegal immigrants any differently than does the US.

Ahhhhhh Gotchas:thumbsup:

 

[Stylites]

You mean illegal ALIENS.

“Aliens” as in sojourners and pilgrims, perhaps. Fellow pilgrims call each other “brother” and “sister” and have love in their hearts, not a praetorian disdain.