Nuns get involved in the battle for the White House

[Ridgerunner]

I know the future concerns me greatly.

The advanced ages of sisters who have taken to politics shouldn’t trouble anyone. There is hardly a shortage of political operatives and lobbyists in the U.S.

It is of interest that the only orders that are gaining members are those who actually do charitable work themselves and are faithful to the teachings of the Church. Like these, for example.google.com/search?q=sisters+of+life&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ADFA_enUS486&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=WxFrUJf_AaHe2QXfyoFw&ved=0CEAQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=571

Look at the photos. Mighty young, most of them. Well-educated too, a lot of them are RNs. They actually go out and help young women who are pregnant and poor, themselves. They are not the appendages of any political party.

I contribute to their support, and encourage others here to do so as well. This is the future of sisters in America, God willing, and I think it probably is.

 

[Lapey]

Well from my observation, indeed I think that’s what the practicing faithful Catholics on the forum who weigh the many issues and have decided upon their candidate for the White House just as the nuns have, are trying to do.

Again, I challenge you to show these nuns protect the sanctity of life.

One thing you keep saying Matt, “practicing faithful Catholics” keep saying and posting things that many like me say are contrary to the directives of the Church so this makes it “ok” to believe that as well. I assure you this is not correct.

As I posted on the other thread, according to the writings of the Church leaders in the USA, we cannot support intrinsic evil, even though this is not the reason we are voting for a candidate. A practicing faithful Catholic as you describe many here may not be properly catechized as to what the Church teaches on how to vote, this fact is obvious in many threads here. In other words, these well intentioned PFCs may not be correct in their thinking sometimes. This does not mean the Church endorses their error, nor does it make it right for a PFC to teach that error, as with a public official like Joe B, Nancy P. Kathleen C., or these delightfully good natured nuns etc. I think you get the point.

Intentions do not make something right or good. As one of the paragraphs I posted earlier from the USCCB stated, the ends do not justify the means. We must be against intrinsically evil, even though the progress is not fast as we would like it. This is illustrated as with the process of placement of justices who will vote to overturn R vs. W. If we elect another term for Obama, we will insure another possible generation of legal abortion on demand, this is exactly what the USCCB is saying we PFCs cannot go along with, even though we “feel like we can”.

 

[seekerz]

These nuns do not promote the sanctity of life, they in fact support planned parenthood and the like. Most importantly, the support politicians who promote and protect a woman’s right to choose death. Nothing these women say will be taken with any degree of credibility where it comes to life. I was trying to be nice, but never mind.

What is so evil about Paul Ryan’s budget, especially compared to the budget proposed by the president, or the one currently in affect, oh yea, there’s none currently in affect and hasn’t been one for years. Paul Ryan’s budget starts to address what needs to be done, CUT SPENDING!!! if we do not cut spending drastically, we will all be on the welfare rolls. Then, guess what, there will be no more rich people to tax; they will all have left the country for cheaper living expenses.

PS. The whistle comment was carried over from another thread, goes with the tin foil hat…

I cannot speak to the nuns’ position on abortion, but I would expect that it is aligned with that of the Church…The morality of Ryan’s budget has been called into question by others in the Church - not just the nuns.

Being a person of limited means myself, I find the idea that a person or a country can ‘cut’ or save their way out of debt to be highly questionable to the point of being almost laughable - but then I’m no economist. Most of those experts emphasize that both must be done: increasing revenue and cutting spending. If I accept that as fact, I would expect to see the pain applied first to those who can best withstand it - in my book, anything else would call into question the selflessness of the the least vulnerable among us.

I remember stories of how much people sacrificed during WWII for the war effort. It sounds like everyone was proud and happy to contribute to a cause that they perceived as patriotic and good. Today it sounds like everyone is bent on making sure that the sacrifices needed for safeguarding the nation’s future, are expected of the other person and not of themselves. That surely is a reflection of our collective morality…

 

[Lapey]

I know the future concerns me greatly.

Don’t worry Matt; the traditional and faithful orders are bursting at the seams with new vocations. We will be in good hands in about 15 or so years when these modernist orders wither away. There is a distinct reason these orders are dying. This is because the truth is not in them. Authentic truth lives forever, care to argue that one??? Truth is Jesus Christ, He lives always. Which side of this discussion would Jesus be on? Would He ignore the abortion issue to serve the modernist version of social justice? I think not. You might, but scripture will not back up that view.

 

[BroomWagon]

I know there are “social justice” oreinted Catholics,

Who can forget Sister Maura Clarke, Maryknoll Sister Martyred in El Salvador: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maura_Clarke

But this Fast and Furious operation seems the opposite of what these Missionaries have worked for. It’s incredible. Imagine if things such as that Massacre in Cd. Juarez happened while Bush was President?

Then you have the Catholic Worker newspaper, they care to help out the homeless and others in need. I have a friend and that is really important to him.

But in the end, I don’t think there is much Social Justice from the Obama camp and that with Fast and Furious is indeed infuriating. We just had a Border Patrol officer killed, what if that gun was found to be connected to Fast and Furious? Where does this end?

To think Sister Maura Clarke was martyred 30 years ago in Latin America and now, the US Democrat Administration has the F and F program? And we make progress to social justice? And many in Mexico and the program, gun walking, was shown to extend to Puerto Rico, Honduras and Colombia as well.

 

[Tommy72]

I’m incredibly disappointed in these nuns.

The Lord Jesus Christ warned His followers, "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves (Matt. 7:15)

 

[Lapey]

I cannot speak to the nuns’ position on abortion, but I would expect that it is aligned with that of the Church…The morality of Ryan’s budget has been called into question by others in the Church - not just the nuns.

Being a person of limited means myself, I find the idea that a person or a country can ‘cut’ or save their way out of debt to be highly questionable to the point of being almost laughable - but then I’m no economist. Most of those experts emphasize that both must be done: increasing revenue and cutting spending. If I accept that as fact, I would expect to see the pain applied first to those who can best withstand it - in my book, anything else would call into question the selflessness of the the least vulnerable among us.

I remember stories of how much people sacrificed during WWII for the war effort. It sounds like everyone was proud and happy to contribute to a cause that they perceived as patriotic and good. Today it sounds like everyone is bent on making sure that the sacrifices needed for safeguarding the nation’s future, are expected of the other person and not of themselves. That surely is a reflection of our collective morality…

Nothing wrong with calling out a budget for things you site here, slander is where it crosses the line. Like pushing granny of the cliff? Do you really think he doesn’t care about the elderly or the poor because he sees the need to cut spending?

ALL spending needs to be cut, drastically; we have borrowed over 6 trillion dollars in the last 4 years, experts say at the end of another 4 year spending spree the interest alone will be 92% of the revenue income to the government. Question, if you tax every person 100% who make over the magic number of $250K, if they would be stupid enough to keep working, in this country, would this pay for this? The answer is NO!

So I ask you, what would the proper tax rate be for a person who makes $1 million in earned income in a year? If that number was given to you, would you agree that entitlement programs still need to be cut, I mean actual cuts and not decreases in increased spending? The whole democrat fight against tax plans by any republican is class warfare, divide and conquer. Divide the Church, divide the opposition to evil.

 

[Lapey]

I’m incredibly disappointed in these nuns.

The Lord Jesus Christ warned His followers, "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves (Matt. 7:15)

Good post here. Nice to see people can see through the good intensions. Good intensions are not good enough.

 

[CMatt25]

That is your opinion. In mine, the HHS has the potential both to help and to hurt and it is up to the people to whom it applies to make the choice for life or against it.

Easing the burden of health insurance (a major issue for many parents and caregivers) can only ease the concerns over ability to provide for a child - a common contributor to decisions for abortion - particularly in families who already have sick kids or a history of hereditary illness. On the other hand, making it easier to pay for an abortion could have the opposite effect, making the choice against life an easier one. Ultimately, people motivated by financial concerns will generally find a way to pay for an abortion regardless. So from my viewpoint the potential benefits outweigh the risk.

You may not agree, but I’m not clear on which point you think I’ve missed.

Amen Seekerz

 

[_Abyssinia]

The advanced ages of sisters who have taken to politics shouldn’t trouble anyone. There is hardly a shortage of political operatives and lobbyists in the U.S.

It is of interest that the only orders that are gaining members are those who actually do charitable work themselves and are faithful to the teachings of the Church. Like these, for example.google.com/search?q=sisters+of+life&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ADFA_enUS486&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=WxFrUJf_AaHe2QXfyoFw&ved=0CEAQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=571

Look at the photos. Mighty young, most of them. Well-educated too, a lot of them are RNs. They actually go out and help young women who are pregnant and poor, themselves. They are not the appendages of any political party.

I contribute to their support, and encourage others here to do so as well. This is the future of sisters in America, God willing, and I think it probably is.

LCWR membership congregations is declining. The orthodox congregations where women wear a habit are young and flourishing such as Sisters of life

 

[CMatt25]

That’s unfortunate.

It’s unfortunate that Sister Simone is one of a relatively few clergy and religious today that keep me having any interest in Catholicism? Would you rather people lose all interest?

 

[CMatt25]

It’s unfortunate that Sister Simone is one of a relatively few clergy and religious today that keep me having any interest in Catholicism? Would you rather people lose all interest in your church?

 

[Lochias]

It’s unfortunate that Sister Simone is one of a relatively few clergy and religious today that keep me having any interest in Catholicism?

You can call it anything you want, but what Sister Simone teaches isn’t Catholicism. As long as you’ve been here, you really don’t have much of an excuse to claim that you don’t know otherwise.

 

[CMatt25]

You can call it anything you want, but what Sister Simone teaches isn’t Catholicism. As long as you’ve been here, you really don’t have much of an excuse to claim that you don’t know otherwise.

Different answers are given here.

 

[Lochias]

Different answers are given here.

Doesn’t make them right.

 

[CMatt25]

My apologies, but I don’t understand your response.

Let me rephrase: Do you agree or disagree with the following statement:

Faithful Catholics must follow their conscience and be both pro social justice and pro life?

From what I can overall gather, yes they should strive to be both. And again I agree faithful Catholics weigh the many issues within their Catholic formed consciences, and then follow their consciences as to their candidate for the White House just as these nuns do. Just as Cardinal Dolan said about Paul Ryan and Joe Biden. Both are Catholics. You can disagree with either one or both of them. But it’s not a bad thing that both say their Catholic formation influences their thinking. Peace.

nationalreview.com/articles/314272/dolan-ryan-great-public-servant-kathryn-jean-lopez?pg=2

 

[kimmielittle]

Again, I challenge you to show these nuns protect the sanctity of life.

One thing you keep saying Matt, “practicing faithful Catholics” keep saying and posting things that many like me say are contrary to the directives of the Church so this makes it “ok” to believe that as well. I assure you this is not correct.

As I posted on the other thread, according to the writings of the Church leaders in the USA, we cannot support intrinsic evil, even though this is not the reason we are voting for a candidate. A practicing faithful Catholic as you describe many here may not be properly catechized as to what the Church teaches on how to vote, this fact is obvious in many threads here. In other words, these well intentioned PFCs may not be correct in their thinking sometimes. This does not mean the Church endorses their error, nor does it make it right for a PFC to teach that error, as with a public official like Joe B, Nancy P. Kathleen C., or these delightfully good natured nuns etc. I think you get the point.

Intentions do not make something right or good. As one of the paragraphs I posted earlier from the USCCB stated, the ends do not justify the means. We must be against intrinsically evil, even though the progress is not fast as we would like it. This is illustrated as with the process of placement of justices who will vote to overturn R vs. W. If we elect another term for Obama, we will insure another possible generation of legal abortion on demand, this is exactly what the USCCB is saying we PFCs cannot go along with, even though we “feel like we can”.

:clapping::clapping:

 

[kimmielittle]

I cannot speak to the nuns’ position on abortion, but I would expect that it is aligned with that of the Church…

I can, using her own words:

TWS: On the legal question, do you think there should be penalties against abortion doctors? I mean, should it be illegal to perform abortions?

CAMPBELL: That’s beyond my pay grade. I don’t know.

“The fact is my vast preference is that all women would have the support to carry their babies to term,” Campbell continued. “One of the things I find so horrifying in the Romney-Ryan budget is that they want to take those supports away. And then they claim they’re pro-life. That just drives me nuts!”

So Campbell knows that the Romney-Ryan budget is “horrifying” because it spends less on social welfare programs than Obama, but she’s agnostic about passing laws to stop abortions. According to one study, striking down Roe v. Wade would lead to 180,000 fewer abortions per year in the United States.

weeklystandard.com/blogs/catholic-nun-dnc-speaker-simone-campbell-abortion-s-beyond-my-pay-grade_651775.html

AND this is Mr Obama’s stance

climaterealistponderings.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/117952_600.jpg

Evidently, she doesn’t know Church Teaching:

EVANGELIUM VITAE

1. Abortion and euthanasia are thus crimes which no human law can claim to legitimize. There is no obligation in

conscience to obey such laws; instead there is a grave and clear obligation to oppose them by conscientious objection. From

the very beginnings of the Church, the apostolic preaching reminded Christians of their duty to obey legitimately

constituted public authorities (cf. Rom 13:1-7; 1 Pet 2:13-14), but at the same time it firmly warned that "we must obey God

rather than men" (Acts 5:29). In the Old Testament, precisely in regard to threats against life, we find a significant

example of resistance to the unjust command of those in authority. After Pharaoh ordered the killing of all newborn males,

the Hebrew midwives refused. “They did not do as the king of Egypt commanded them, but let the male children live” (Ex

1:17). But the ultimate reason for their action should be noted: “the midwives feared God” (ibid.). It is precisely from

obedience to God-to whom alone is due that fear which is acknowledgment of his absolute sovereignty-that the strength and

the courage to resist unjust human laws are born. It is the strength and the courage of those prepared even to be imprisoned

or put to the sword, in the certainty that this is what makes for “the endurance and faith of the saints” (Rev 13:10).

In the case of an intrinsically unjust law, such as a law permitting abortion or euthanasia, it is therefore never licit to

obey it, or to “take part in a propaganda campaign in favour of such a law, or vote for it”.98

vatican.va/holy_father/jo…-vitae_en.html

 

[meltzerboy]

You can call it anything you want, but what Sister Simone teaches isn’t Catholicism. As long as you’ve been here, you really don’t have much of an excuse to claim that you don’t know otherwise.

That reminds me of what some Orthodox Jews say about both Conservative and Reform Judaism: what the rabbis teach is not Judaism.

 

[Lapey]

It’s unfortunate that Sister Simone is one of a relatively few clergy and religious today that keep me having any interest in Catholicism? Would you rather people lose all interest?

Matt we have been through this many times, we stick to the truth of the Gospel, in season and out. If the truth of the Gospel sends you away, then it is not the Gospel that is in error. It is the orders like Sister Simone’s that are not being fully enveloped in the truth of the Gospels, their numbers are withering. Kind of reminds me of something, the branch separated from the vine, will wither and die. Humm, where have I heard this before???

John 15:5-6

1. I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me and I in him will bear much fruit, because without me you can do nothing.
2. Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned.

These scripture passages are real, and true. Why does the Church withstand all it has gone through, because as a whole, she stays true to the Vine, Jesus. Are there bad people in the Church? Yes, is the Church and Her teachings bad? No way!