Nuns stealing and selling babies?

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Rock Center with bryan williams reported on a controversy in Spain where nuns, doctors, and other people, allegedly told mothers and fathers their babies were dead, and then sold the babies. If this is true, is this another example of the enemy corrupting weaker elements of the Church?
 
Here’s one:
  • Spain’s stolen babies
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  • How many? More than 900 cases are being investigated, but new cases are still coming to light - lawyers say the total could reach 300,000
  • How long? Over a period of 40-50 years, beginning under Franco, up to the 1990s
  • Who benefited? Initially the Fascists by bringing up the children of their enemies - later children were taken from parents judged to be morally or economically deficient and placed with approved Catholic, often childless, families
  • Why did it take so long to expose? The Church and medical profession are highly respected, and Spanish law does not require the biological mother’s name on the birth certificate
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bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15335899
 
Well another good news story for the one and only true Church.
 
So are you saying it’s not true?

I believe that whatever sins and transgressions have been committed by members of the Church need to be exposed in a clear light. The media will do it for us anyway. It’s better to take ownership. Haven’t the last decades of sexual abuse scandals, and in Canada a 150 years of residential schools and the attendant abuse of indigenous peoples by the major Churches taught us anything?

Besides the stories were taken to the press in Spain first, and then picked up by the British press.
 
I wonder what it would be like to be a child born into such a situation. If you love your adoptive parents and had a great life could you really let this revealation tear apart your relationship?
 
If you thought they had colluded, or worse paid for you. If you thought your biological parents were “out there” thinking you had died, how would anyone feel?
 
traillius said:
Rock Center with bryan williams reported on a controversy in Spain where nuns, doctors, and other people, allegedly told mothers and fathers their babies were dead, and then sold the babies. If this is true, is this another example of the enemy corrupting weaker elements of the Church?
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Up until the 1940s, this practice existed. There was a period when is stopped only to begin again in the 60s. The offenders included doctors, nurses and some nuns. If true, and there’s no proof that this was done under the auspices of the Church, nor how many nuns or priest were involved.

I would suggest the fault is the ones who did these deeds and denied mothers their children. The individuals involved are responsible for their own greed. The supposed justification for selling the children were to pay for the mother and child’s medical bills. How could this be seen as Church policy, as it was done under the government of General Franco. Most or many of the women were unwed mothers, possibly the government’s reaction to the rise of single women getting pregnant. Many articles lead in with priests and nuns – however further reading shows that it was done by order of the government and that though priests and nuns took part, there were also doctors and nurses who followed these orders.

I’m suspicious of any report that leads off with “priests and nuns”, especially when further reading indicates that the govenrnment was complicit in this as were non-religious professionals and government officials involved.

newsytype.com/12834-catholic-church-stole-babies/

time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2059563,00.html
 
It’s still a horrendous story if it was “merely” doctors and nurses taking and selling babies. Or if it was a government that did it.

The fact is though that the Catholic Church in Spain during Franco’s reign does not have a stellar history.
 
I heard about this a few weeks ago. That said, I seriously doubt that a nun or a priest would do this. I have more faith in our religious than to believe this nonsense.
 
I"m actually not that surprised.

Many Catholics on this board feel that any child born to an unwed mother should be given to a “good” Catholic family 🤷

Not saying its right, or that it is Church teaching, just that many, many people feel that way.

And it certainly isn’t only Catholics where this happens. It often happens in oppressive political atmosphere. Anytime any one group feels superior to another group you will have this kind of stuff happening. Taking the children of the other side and raise them in your own views is the best way to keep power.

Religious folks and the ruling elite have been taking babies from the poor and unwed for eons. It was often done right here in the US not all that long ago.

I’m so sad lately for the Church. How is she supposed to minister to her body, if the head is diseased?
 
mommamia said:
I"m actually not that surprised.

Many Catholics on this board feel that any child born to an unwed mother should be given to a “good” Catholic family 🤷

Not saying its right, or that it is Church teaching, just that many, many people feel that way.

And it certainly isn’t only Catholics where this happens. It often happens in oppressive political atmosphere. Anytime any one group feels superior to another group you will have this kind of stuff happening. Taking the children of the other side and raise them in your own views is the best way to keep power.

Religious folks and the ruling elite have been taking babies from the poor and unwed for eons. It was often done right here in the US not all that long ago.

I’m so sad lately for the Church. How is she supposed to minister to her body, if the head is diseased?
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Why would this not surprise you? Nuns in general are fare more moral than the general population here on earth. Wouldn’t that therefore make them less likely to do something like this?

Personally, I really do not believe that they did this and I won’t believe that they did this until I see some solid evidence and/or proof. I believe in believing the best about people rather than the worst until the worse thing is proven or at least a good amount of solid evidence is provided to show that the worse thing is true about the person. I mean, wouldn’t it be a sin not to do this? I mean, if you automatically assume the worst about someone, aren’t you rashly judging them which is a sin?

If you are rashly judging someone then that means you judged them without sufficient evidence or poor or you simply passed an immediate judgment on them as soon as you heard about the potentially bad thing that they did. This is wrong because you can’t assume that someone did something bad without sufficient evidence to show or prove that they did do something wrong. It is similar in court of law, the defendant is innocent until proven guilty.
 
Holly3278 said:
Why would this not surprise you? Nuns in general are fare more moral than the general population here on earth. Wouldn’t that therefore make them less likely to do something like this?

Personally, I really do not believe that they did this and I won’t believe that they did this until I see some solid evidence and/or proof. I believe in believing the best about people rather than the worst until the worse thing is proven or at least a good amount of solid evidence is provided to show that the worse thing is true about the person. I mean, wouldn’t it be a sin not to do this? I mean, if you automatically assume the worst about someone, aren’t you rashly judging them which is a sin?

If you are rashly judging someone then that means you judged them without sufficient evidence or poor or you simply passed an immediate judgment on them as soon as you heard about the potentially bad thing that they did. This is wrong because you can’t assume that someone did something bad without sufficient evidence to show or prove that they did do something wrong. It is similar in court of law, the defendant is innocent until proven guilty.
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Oh no, I don’t have the other side of the story to judge anyone. Why I’m not surprised is it happens often historically.

Catholics are no more guilty of this crime than any other system, in fact I would say it has more often been a tool of the political elite, ie native children being taken from parents against their will, and sent to schools in the US.

What I said is that anytime you have a group that feels superior to another group you will have this kind of abuse.

I’m not surprised because I’ve heard the opinion of many on this board, and many more non-Catholics, that it is really the best thing for the child, and the mother is just being selfish if she tries to keep the baby.

Who am I to judge anyone involved’s intention? The article I read (MSNBC) didn’t really mention nun’s or the Church until the very end, then only once. It pointed out that this was a political and governmental problem, that children of dissenters and political prisioners were taken first. Maybe the nuns were just making sure the babies were placed in good homes instead of killed? It wouldn’t be the first mass slaughter of the innocent by a government? Or maybe they were guilty of more selfish motives, but*** I don’t know***.

Or maybe they just were of the school of thought that really what they were doing was truly the best for the child. I say this again because I have heard so many people express this belief. The religious are human also, and subject to the pervading morals and political climate they come from. It was a widely held belief here in the US for years. My own dh’s grandma was forced to give up a child before she was married. That is what was done in the conservative protestant area she was from. Her parents weren’t some evil people selling a baby for profit, they were folks from an era and culture that felt that children born to unwed mothers (and some other “undesirables”), should be given to good Christian families.

Heck, many liberals think that children should be taken from what they term “extreme” religious households. Or want to pass laws on what morals and ideas parents can teach their children.

So no, I am not surprised at all sadly, because this kind of thing has happened all throughout history.
 
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