Nursing home residents stage heartbreaking protest outside facility: 'Rather die from COVID than loneliness'

[Cathoholic]

These Elderly Say They Are Dying of Loneliness Want Human Contact Back . . . .

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NEWS OCTOBER 12, 2020

Nursing home residents stage heartbreaking protest outside facility: ‘Rather die from COVID than loneliness’​

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Residents of a long-term nursing and rehabilitation facility in Colorado organized a protest against the state’s COVID-19 restrictions on Thursday.

What are the details?​

According to KCNC-TV, the protest took place at Fairacres Manor in Greeley.

The station reported that many of the facility’s residents — many of them in wheelchairs — stood outside of the facility and held signs that read “Rather die from COVID than loneliness,” “Give us freedom,” “Prisoners in our own home,” and more. . . .

https://www.conservativereview.com/...ie-from-covid-than-loneliness-2648180135.html

 

[Ridgerunner]

Gotta tip my hat to these oldsters. They have a lot more courage and rational balance than a lot of young, healthy people I know.

 

[Ridgerunner]

By selfishly putting themselves and staff at risk?

By going outside into sunlight and fresh air and protesting their virtual incarceration? That’s selfish? All kinds of people risk their lives more closely than this, and yet they do it because they’re not so jealous of their own little lives that they won’t do anything useful with them.

And do you think the staff aren’t exposed to those people and plenty of others outside the nursing home as well?

Guess like those “selfish” soldiers, sailors, police and fire who risk their lives, these people are to be condemned.

“And which of you by being anxious can add one cubit unto the measure of his life?” Matt 6:27

 

[jtauke]

I think it’s obvious the preferred result of such a protest is relaxing of visitor restrictions…right?

Meaning more risk of exposure than is already present for all those involved. Staff and resident alike.

 

[KMC]

By selfishly putting themselves and staff at risk?

Spare me.

Using your point of view, the people who work at the nursing home should never go to the store, never go to a restaurant, and should never interact with people outside of the nursing home, because to do so would be selfish, right?

 

[LeafByNiggle]

By going outside into sunlight and fresh air and protesting their virtual incarceration?

Their “virtual incarceration” is exactly what Trump supporters here have recommended. I can’t count the number of times we heard that “Young people should be allowed to get back to work unencumbered by mask mandates, etc., and get back to ordinary life. Only those who are more vulnerable should be protected.” Well, if the rest of the world is running around spreading covid as if they haven’t a care in the world, that means the “more vulnerable” have no choice but to remain in their virtual incarceration. Isn’t that what we hear? Covid is only dangerous to the old and those with pre-existing conditions? Well, this is the consequence of that kind of thinking.

On the other hand, if young people were to take more communal responsibility for limiting the infection rate and make the outside world safer for those in nursing homes, maybe they would not have to resort to such extreme isolation.

 

[Cathoholic]

LeafByNiggle . . .

Their “virtual incarceration” is exactly what Trump supporters here have recommended.

I can only speak for this “Trump supporter” but that’s a half truth.

I have advocated taking the extreme measures with the elderly and sick (i.e. immunosupressed).
But I likewise have also advocated them making their own choices too.

(The thread is not about me, but I am an immune suppressed individual and choose not to live “holed-up”. Let them choose.)

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle . . .

Their “virtual incarceration” is exactly what Trump supporters here have recommended.

Generally I would agree that those in nursing homes be allowed to have greater say over their own care. (If I find myself in a nursing home, one of the first things I will start doing is devising an escape plan - just in case.)

However in this case the decisions they make affect not only themselves but all the other residents of the facility. Remember the New York nursing home fiasco you were so vocal about? The point was that covid spreads rapidly in nursing homes, and it is dangerous to place residents who are infectious because it is so hard to contain the outbreak once it begins. If a resident makes the decision to hug her family members and otherwise “get intimate” with them (meaning visiting closer than 6 feet for an extended period of time) that resident is endangering not only herself, but all the other residents of the facility, just like we found out in New York. The Colorado positivity rate is almost 5% and rising, so the chances are that after 20 hugs with random family members, someone at the facility is going to get covid, then the whole facility will be at risk. When the consequences of one’s decision affects only that one person, we might be more inclined to give that person the freedom to make whatever choice he or she wants. But when the consequences affect all those in the facility, we need to be more careful about allowing such decisions.

 

[Feanor2]

Sounds like someone has the TV in the day room turned into FOX news.

 

[Ridgerunner]

They aren’t prisoners, but there are rules they are expected to follow during a pandemic. They can leave if they don’t like the rules.

Seems likely to me these nursing homes could sequester those who want it but allow visitation to those who are willing to take the risk. They do sequester highly disabled Alzheimer’s patients in any nursing home of any size. I don’t see why they couldn’t allow more contact for some and more protection for others. For goodness sake, if we’re going to provide unlimited health care for illegal aliens, why not do a little better for our own citizens?

that means the “more vulnerable” have no choice but to remain in their virtual incarceration

False choice.

 

[Roselle]

We are social creatures. I have read mentions before of how social interaction with others can reduce stress and lengthen a persons life.

 

[Rockoh22]

Loneliness is worst than any illness.

Perhaps a way for us to get creative and do something about it. I am not sure what to do, but will pray for them.

 

[Cathoholic]

Remember the New York nursing home fiasco you were so vocal about?

What does Cuomo ORDERING INFECTED patients INTO nursing homes have to do with people wanting to see their loved ones?

Nursing homes could screen patients (quick questionnaire and touchless forehead temps) before allowing them to enter. That’s what we have to do now when we go into the medical clinic here (sick people almost by definition) and people aren’t dying off like flies.
And especially now, when the nursing homes COULD even get a rapid corona virus test if you are so scared.

(Not “you” personally.)

My “vocal” statements also had to do with treating the patients.

Corona virus has treatment options that we now know about too. Aside from the hydroxychloroquine that YOU have been so vocal about wanting withheld from patients (on grounds that it has not been investigated enough) there are other treatment options too.

Let them make their own decisions.

However in this case the decisions they make affect not only themselves but all the other . . . .

You know where “decisions” effect “the other” most of all?

Yeah. With premeditated murder of unborn babies.

I want you and anyone else to always free to join me in calling out this monstrosity where people make decisions for other people that has virtually a hundred percent chance of KILLING those other people.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

Remember the New York nursing home fiasco you were so vocal about?

What does Cuomo ORDERING INFECTED patients INTO nursing homes have to do with people wanting to see their loved ones?

They both are about risk of covid spreading through nursing homes.

Nursing home could screen patients (quick questionnaire and touchless forehead temps) before allowing them to enter.

Such tests would only catch the ones who would not have come in the first place. We know that covid patients can be infectious 24 hours before any symptoms are apparent. That that would not work. Probably a lot of the ex-covid patients that were sent to nursing homes in New York would have passed those cursory screens you mentioned.

That’s what we have to do now when we go into the medical clinic here (sick people almost by definition) and people aren’t dying off like flies.

That’s because when you go to a clinic, no one there hugs and kisses you like the visitors want to do at the nursing home. The medical staff are all in full PPE.

And especially now, when the nursing homes COULD even get a rapid corona virus test if you are so scared.

The rapid test (not the PCR test) has such a poor false negative rate it is almost useless.

Corona virus has treatment options that we now know about too.

You mean old people in nursing homes don’t have to worry about getting covid anymore? Nonsense.

Aside from the hydroxychloroquine…

Yes, you will notice that when the chips were down, Trump didn’t rely on his precious HCQ. He went for Remdesivir - the one that all the Trump supporters were criticizing for being an overly expensive drug pushed by “big pharma.” (Plus Trump took an experimental antibody treatment, steriods, and, for all I know, drank essense of Gelfling.)

LeafByNiggle:

However in this case the decisions they make affect not only themselves but all the other . . . .

…no relevant response from Cathoholic. Only a deflection to abortion.

 

[Cathoholic]

LeafByNiggle . . .

They both are about risk of covid spreading through nursing homes.

So do you think having healthy asymptomatic afebrile family visitors to you by your choice and visit youis the same as Andrew Cuomo ordering ACTIVELY INFECTED patients INTO nursing homes?

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We know that covid patients can be infectious 24 hours before any symptoms are apparent. That that would not work.

That’s WHY there is a choice to make.

But it is working in the medical clinics. I know because I go there as a patient. (To many of them).

The medical staff are all in full PPE.

The medical staff are not in full PPE.
You can’t social distance and examine a patient so that is wrong too.

no one there hugs and kisses you like the visitors want to do at the nursing home.

You dwell on that for awhile and then re-read the title of the thread.

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LeafByNiggle . . . .

The rapid test (not the PCR test) has such a poor false negative rate it is almost useless.

Really? Which one? There are many.

Just two or three weeks ago I posted about several that are being re-designed for home use.

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L:eafByNiggle . . .

You mean old people in nursing homes don’t have to worry about getting covid anymore? Nonsense.

What’s nonsense is you saying something I never said.

They can still “worry” and if they get corona virus be treated.

LeafByNiggle . . . .

Yes, you will notice that when the chips were down, Trump didn’t rely on his precious HCQ. He went for Remdesivir

No. I won’t notice that. What I notice is President Trump’s physicians did. Not “Trump”.

I have never hailed hydroxychloroquine as a panacea for corona virus. Why are you implying I did?
But I HAVE felt and DO feel that the option of hydroxychloroquine should be left between the physician and their patient.
But I HAVE felt and DO feel that the option of hydroxychloroquine has shown efficacy in preliminary usage.
But I HAVE felt and DO feel that the option of hydroxychloroquine has been politicized by the left.
But I HAVE felt and DO feel that the option of hydroxychloroquine should not be rejected on studies with wrong cohorts.
But I HAVE felt and DO feel that the option of hydroxychloroquine being nuked by phony “scientific” articles at the same time in The Lancet and the New England Journal of Medicine is unprecedented (and was thankfully withdrawn by both journals).
And I HAVE felt and DO feel that the option of hydroxychloroquine should be properly studied with appropriate cohorts. Something you once agreed to but now have not reaffirmed for months (that I can see).

LeafByNiggle on the principle of making decisions for yourself that effect others (in this case decisions to MURDER other people who are innocent of any crime other than existing) . . .

…no relevant response from Cathoholic. Only a deflection to abortion.

I am sorry you feel that way.

 

[Ridgerunner]

It does seem, though, that this particular group isn’t trying to “elope” (isn’t that word in the business?) They just want visitors.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle . . .

They both are about risk of covid spreading through nursing homes.

So do you think having healthy asymptomatic afebrile family visitors to you by your choice and visit youis the same as Andrew Cuomo ordering ACTIVELY INFECTED patients INTO nursing homes?

The intentions are different, but the effect is the same.

The medical staff are all in full PPE.

The medical staff are not in full PPE.

But they aren’t hugging you and kissing you either. The grandchildren will want to do that.

LeafByNiggle . . . .

The rapid test (not the PCR test) has such a poor false negative rate it is almost useless.

Really? Which one? There are many.

Just two or three weeks ago I posted about several that are being re-designed for home use.

Did you post about any rapid tests that were as reliable as the PCR test?

L:eafByNiggle . . .

You mean old people in nursing homes don’t have to worry about getting covid anymore? Nonsense.

What’s nonsense is you saying something I never said.

They can still “worry” and if they get corona virus be treated.

And even with the best treatment, many will not recover. We know that because people are still dying of it today - about 10-20 per day in Wisconsin.

LeafByNiggle . . . .

Yes, you will notice that when the chips were down, Trump didn’t rely on his precious HCQ. He went for Remdesivir

No. I won’t notice that. What I notice is President Trump’s physicians did. Not “Trump”.

If Trump wanted HCQ his physician would have given him HCQ (unless he knew it was useless). Either way, that does not look very good for Trump and/or HCQ.

I have never hailed hydroxychloroquine as a panacea for corona virus.

Talk about putting words in my mount. I didn’t say anything about a panacea either. Apparently it is just downright useless - or else why didn’t Trump use it - even at the very beginning?

But I HAVE felt and DO feel that the option of hydroxychloroquine has been politicized by the left.

Correction: by the right.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Here’s the thing—when the quarantine was only going to be for two-to-four weeks, that wasn’t so bad.

But these residents are lonely, they are at serious risk for depression when they think they’ve been abandoned by family and friends.
Depression leads to cognitive decline and refusal to eat, with all the risk of malnutrition.
They exhibit combative behaviors, making it a lot harder to clean and care for them.
Or they withdrawal and refuse to interact with anybody.

This has to be considered. What quality of life to be alone and abandoned?

 

[Cathoholic]

LeafByNiggle on equating actively infected corona virus patients and PUTTING them in proximity to the old and sick . . .

. . . With putting screened apparently healthy people in with the sick.

the effect is the same.

No it’s not.

If the effect is the same tell clinics who are using screening to receive and take care of their patients to stop it.

They would tell you the same thing that I will.

You are wrong.

 

[Cathoholic]

LeafByNiggle . . .

Did you post about any rapid tests that were as reliable as the PCR test?

No but I did not post about any rapid tests that were considered “almost useless” either.

LeafByNiggle . . .

The rapid test (not the PCR test) has such a poor false negative rate it is almost useless.

Bold mine.

That is false.

As I said. Your “rapid test” argument is erroneous.

There are several rapid tests that I have already posted on. Some with very good sensitivity and specificity.

Read my prior posts if you want more details.