NYT article: priest shortage/foreign recruitment

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I certainly don’t think being a brother is an “easy out” than being a priest…some wanted to be but couldn’t do the academic learning involved, some never felt called to it. Fr. Groechels order had a nice artilce on brothers and how they were the glue in their organization. They fixed things, made things, cooked, met the visitors,ministered to the young etc. Priests helped too, but not having as many, they needed the brothers.

franciscanfriars.com/religious%20brothers/cfrreligousbrother/llaybro.htm

I know how it is thought to have thoughts that way, I sometimes when I see a lot of vocations to a monastary for nuns, I think, what about teaching, being with the poor…but prayer is the “glue” for everything.
 
I certainly don’t think being a brother is an “easy out” than being a priest…some wanted to be but couldn’t do the academic learning involved, some never felt called to it. Fr. Groechels order had a nice artilce on brothers and how they were the glue in their organization. They fixed things, made things, cooked, met the visitors,ministered to the young etc. Priests helped too, but not having as many, they needed the brothers.

franciscanfriars.com/religious%20brothers/cfrreligousbrother/llaybro.htm

I know how it is thought to have thoughts that way, I sometimes when I see a lot of vocations to a monastary for nuns, I think, what about teaching, being with the poor…but prayer is the “glue” for everything.
That was an excellent link. Thanks for sharing it with us.

What many people don’'t understand about priests who belong to certain religious families is that these priests are Brothers, with a capital B. Therefore, people don’t often understand why they have to run from the parish to community recreation.

They do not understand when the entire community gets up and takes off for a week to a retreat of the Brothers and leaves the parish in the hands of a Permanent Deacon and a borrowed priest from another community or the diocese.

They do not understand why the priest cannot sit and hear confessions at a certain time, unless it is a matter of life and death.

The average lay person does not understand the sacredness of consecrated life, especially the sacredness of Brotherhood to some religious families. This is why some religious families are pulling out of parish ministry. They cannot give the laity the service that we want 24/7 or even eight hours a day. Sometimes the best they can do is several hours a day, depending on the structure of their community schedule and community responsibilities.

We have four lay brothers in our parish, only three work for the parish full-time. The Superior does not work for the parish full time. He is a theologian and teaches at the seminary. The other lay brothers have full-time positions at the parish.

This means that everyone takes turns preparing meals, doing laundry, cleaning house, shopping for groceries, and the other domestic things that have to get done in a family home. When the pastor is not available because it’s his turn to cook, people have to understand and accept that.

Most of us would be very upset if our boss or our clients believed that we owe them more time than what we owe our family. But when it comes to priests who belong to Brotherhoods, we often fail to recall that the Brotherhood is their family. Like every family, they do many things together and like every family you can excuse yourself once in a while, but you can’t excuse yourself regularly. You become an absentee member of the family. You’re an extern. Your home becomes a hotel to which to go when you’re tired and need to rest. That’s not the idea when you join a religious family. This is also a good way to weaken your religious vocation, when you’re too much a parish priest and not a friar or a monk. If you lose that balance, you lose something that makes you very special.

What this article points out about the Franciscans can be said of many other religious families where brotherhood is seen as acting in Persona Christi. The fact that a religious priest leaves the confessional to do his community’s laundry does not make him less of a priest. As a religious brother in vows, he also acts in Persona Christi. He is functioning as Christ our Brother.

I understand what Robert says. When you’ve been on line for more than an hour with a mortal sin to confess and the priest has to run out to be with his brothers it can be very annoying or frustrating.

The priest will probably be equally frustrated. This is the frustration that comes with a consecrated life where obedience is not an option.

The good thing is that you can usually make an appointment to see one of these priests at some other time. The hard part is that you did wait and didnt get to make your confession. The other good point is that you did try your best and God understands these things better than we do, because they are all part of his plan for salvation. You probably won’t go to hell if you die that night. You did not get to confession, but it was Christ’s fault not yours. You didn’t create religious life. 🤷

This is another good example and reason why we need more secular priests and priests for clerical orders. For these men, parish ministry is their vocation. For a Brotherhood or a monastic community, parish miinistry is a vocation within a vocation. They have to attend to more than just the parish.

One last thing that has nothing to do with priests. The notion that some religious lay brothers could not handle the studies is not accurate. Most religious communities of Brothers require at least six years of formation and post high school academic education. That would be a Master’s Degree. There are many brothers with MA’s and PhD’s who answer doors or are cooks. That decision is not theirs to make. It is made by the Major Superior after they make perpetual vows. It is usually discussed along the way during the years of formation. Therefore, the decision usually comes as no surprise.

If you wanted to be a priest and your superior denies it, you’re in the commnity for life. You made perpetual vows before you were turned down for Holy Orders. The only way out is through a dispensation from the Holy See.

Let us pray that God will send many vocations for parish priests. This will help out the parishes and take some of the load off of those religious communnities who lend us their priests to run our parishes.

JR 🙂
 
I, for one, do not need links to understand the separate needs of consecrated life, and I am specifically familiar with the Franciscan Order.

I’m not knocking “praying for vocations,” but the Holy Spirit speaks through worldly reality as well. When aspiring seminarians do not perceive that their jobs will be overwhelming and “triple-time,” when they do not perceive that the priesthood is practically 24/7 drudgery with multiple responsibilities beyond even one’s own parish, then they will begin to enroll. What orders can do in the meantime is just occasionally fill the gaps, such as has been suggested above.

This is very similar to what has happened to the nursing profession. Many nurses have left because of extreme burdens (job conditions); others would like to become nurses but are turned off by the unpleasant job conditions. There will always be a handful, in any profession, of people “answering a call” of depleted ranks – the military, nursing, priesthood, teaching – but that is never enough to reverse such deficiencies, and even those will disappear if conditions are such that they cannot perform their duties as intended. (All of the priesthood requires set-aside time for prayer & re-fueling, not just religious orders. Someone who is called to sanctity, not just to serve, is aware that burning out with activity consumes prayer time.
 
What Elizabeth says is very true. We have lost many good religious priests because we placed them alone in parishes to help cover the shortage. After several years, the religious life was sacrificed for the role of the parish priest.

These men are now having very serious difficulties returning to their religious communities. They spent too much time away. Returning to community living, the stucture, the obedience, the silence and the other demands of religoius life is something that they are no longer used to.

Simple things like having to share a car is frustrating to someone who has always had a car at his disposal or asking for permission, when you were used to making up your mind and doing things on your own.

The laity can help by stepping up to the plate and taking over many parish ministries that do not require a priest. In our parish we have about 75 different ministries. They are all run by lay people. People have stepped up to the plate, gone for training, taken theology and philosophy courses, some have even gone for degrees in ministry or theology. We also welcomed the Secular Franciscans and they run several of our ministries.

The youth also run some ministries to senior citizens and to other young people. It frees our priests to be religious and spend time with their community.

The model was brought to our parish by friars who were in the foreign missions where the laity is very active in running parishes. We have also welcomed the Lay Brothers as equals to the priests. They have taken up duties such as Superior, spiritual directors, hospital chaplains, theology professors, and financial administrators.

It’s a different paradigm, but it has allowed us to keep our religious until the bishop has enough priests of his own and the day comes when the religious can leave and do their thing. Trust me, they want to leave. They want to go back to a mendicant way of life.

In the meantime, people are happy, because everyone feels some sense of stewardship for the parish.

I believe this is what Elizabeth is speaking about. When the laity assume responsibilities in the parish, priests and religious can be what they were called to be, men of prayer, ascetics, and ministers to God’s people.

JR 🙂
 
What Elizabeth says is very true. We have lost many good religious priests because we placed them alone in parishes to help cover the shortage. After several years, the religious life was sacrificed for the role of the parish priest.

These men are now having very serious difficulties returning to their religious communities. They spent too much time away. Returning to community living, the stucture, the obedience, the silence and the other demands of religoius life is something that they are no longer used to.

Simple things like having to share a car is frustrating to someone who has always had a car at his disposal or asking for permission, when you were used to making up your mind and doing things on your own.

The laity can help by stepping up to the plate and taking over many parish ministries that do not require a priest. In our parish we have about 75 different ministries. They are all run by lay people. People have stepped up to the plate, gone for training, taken theology and philosophy courses, some have even gone for degrees in ministry or theology. We also welcomed the Secular Franciscans and they run several of our ministries.

The youth also run some ministries to senior citizens and to other young people. It frees our priests to be religious and spend time with their community.

The model was brought to our parish by friars who were in the foreign missions where the laity is very active in running parishes. We have also welcomed the Lay Brothers as equals to the priests. They have taken up duties such as Superior, spiritual directors, hospital chaplains, theology professors, and financial administrators.

It’s a different paradigm, but it has allowed us to keep our religious until the bishop has enough priests of his own and the day comes when the religious can leave and do their thing. Trust me, they want to leave. They want to go back to a mendicant way of life.

In the meantime, people are happy, because everyone feels some sense of stewardship for the parish.

I believe this is what Elizabeth is speaking about. When the laity assume responsibilities in the parish, priests and religious can be what they were called to be, men of prayer, ascetics, and ministers to God’s people.

JR 🙂
No argument here…we have a very active laity at our parish. For example, our youth minister and catechetical director are both lay people and have multiple parents who help them. A bunch of us even went to Franciscan University for training. It won’t solve the Confession issue though…I’m pretty certain we still need priests for that…and a couple of other things… Mass, Baptism, Marriage, Funerals…you know, enough to keep a priest pretty darn busy. 😉
 
No argument here…we have a very active laity at our parish. For example, our youth minister and catechetical director are both lay people and have multiple parents who help them. A bunch of us even went to Franciscan University for training. It won’t solve the Confession issue though…I’m pretty certain we still need priests for that…and a couple of other things… Mass, Baptism, Marriage, Funerals…you know, enough to keep a priest pretty darn busy. 😉
Actually, that’s where your secular deacons come in handy. They can baptize, witness marriages, celebrate funerals, preach at masses, leaving priests free to celebrate mass, hear confessions and take care of the dying. Do you have secular deacons?

JR 🙂
 
Actually, that’s where your secular deacons come in handy. They can baptize, witness marriages, celebrate funerals, preach at masses, leaving priests free to celebrate mass, hear confessions and take care of the dying. Do you have secular deacons?

JR 🙂
Not at our parish. I’m discerning, but it will take a minimum of 8 years…and my wife is discerning with me…that could take even longer. :o
 
JR has read me correctly.🙂

I think these last several posts describe the parish needs & situations well.

In addition, though, there is something else that can help: ultimately, I’d like to see a lot of lay work, esp. lay work that is more “social,” more active, and less strictly “spiritual,” be moved to more clustered or central locations, such as diocesan (or more local, when there are cluster parishes) centers. Call it a Catholic community center, for want of a better phrase. There groups like Ladies Guilds, Italian Catholic Federation, yadayada, can meet. There is no need to consume church space, and least of all a priest’s time, for these (unless of course the priest wants to). As I mentioned elsewhere on CAF, my very traditional parish lacks a church hall. There is a small church + a rectory. That’s it. Groups affiliated with that parish have to be meet off-site, which is a blessing. The church is used almost exclusively for sacraments and sacramental preparation. This allows the resident priests to offer several masses each day, 7 days a week, as well as confession several times a day, 7 days a week (including on solemn feast days, which most other parishes do not offer). It gives the priests time for private prayer, which any human being desperately needs to minister well. This arrangement allows the parish to be the spiritual life-blood of the parishioner, not distracted by other agendas. It allows the parish to be a symbol of spirituality and a witness to God’s presence.

Thus, I am not necessarily in favor of the building of more, larger cathedrals. I am for the retention of the small, local churches to serve local spiritual needs, with other Catholic activities & groups largely populated by lay people going elsewhere. Build Catholic community centers as your cluster gathering places for CCD instruction, other group meetings, parish social events, etc. JMO
 
I wonder what God thinks of rich First World Catholics importing priests from poor countries that have worse priest shortages than they do (India excepted), see map.
Sice the US is better off than most countries it might be more appropriate to raise money here for Indian priests to serve in Brasil or Kenya or Mexico.

from the first segment:
In Kenya, Father Oneko became the sole pastor for 12 satellite parishes in an 80-mile stretch. He served more than 3,000 people communion on a typical weekend and ran a girls high school.
It was a hardship post. His car, the only one in the vicinity, was used as a school bus, an ambulance and, if the local officers caught a thief, a police car — with Father Oneko the driver.
So these people were left w/o him or his car to serve people who had their own cars, ambulance service, &c, &c. I wonder if something similar happens for every priest from a poor country.
 
I wonder what God thinks of rich First World Catholics importing priests from poor countries that have worse priest shortages than they do (India excepted), see map.
Sice the US is better off than most countries it might be more appropriate to raise money here for Indian priests to serve in Brasil or Kenya or Mexico.

from the first segment:

So these people were left w/o him or his car to serve people who had their own cars, ambulance service, &c, &c. I wonder if something similar happens for every priest from a poor country.
Conditions like these are very common in Asia Minor and Africa. They are less common in Latin America due to better economic conditions, but there are areas where these conditions do exist. I was a lay missionary in Latin America for 10-years. We went to three and four parishes every Sunday. We began our rounds at 5:00 and didn’t finish until about 2:00. It took that long to get to three missions in one morning.

While the priest heard confessions the local people and the Secular Franciscan missionaries ran religious education classes, pre-cana courses, did spiritual direction, trained catechists and extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion. We also rehearsed the music of the day with the congregation and made sure that we met with the council on such matters as maintenance and repairs to the facilities. It was hard work, but we were filled we great joy and peace.

The difference between us and the diocesan priests who had similar assignments was our community life. We always went back to the community house to a fraternity where we prayed, ate, recreated and spent quality time with each other. Without the community such a life would have been almost umbearable.

JR 🙂
 
I think generally the interest in the religious life has increased, how many vowed vocations will there be, we will see. Ultimately though, I think the problem with vocations comes from demographics, I think it all depends on the community and how strong the family is there. I think you get more vocations because you have a strong and stable families. The problem is that we have the wholesale destruction of the family and also with demographics we have a much more transient population now and the stability needed to create a religious identity within a family and individual is lacking. Traditional minded Catholics are practically clumping together and forming communities that are far stronger than most communities, and it is from there that the vocations are rising. Diocese of Lincoln, the last time I checked didn’t have to import any of its priests as they are homegrown.
 
That was an awesome article. Thanks for sharing it. We have had some missionary priests, but I don’t think it’s the same situation. Our parish is staffed by an international religious order.

I have met two priests from Africa and they were really very nice men and very intelligent. I was also impressed by their manners.

JR 🙂
I personally do not like African priests. I don’t understand why there is a need to recruit from other countries. it just does not make sense.
 
I think generally the interest in the religious life has increased, how many vowed vocations will there be, we will see. Ultimately though, I think the problem with vocations comes from demographics, I think it all depends on the community and how strong the family is there. I think you get more vocations because you have a strong and stable families. The problem is that we have the wholesale destruction of the family and also with demographics we have a much more transient population now and the stability needed to create a religious identity within a family and individual is lacking. Traditional minded Catholics are practically clumping together and forming communities that are far stronger than most communities, and it is from there that the vocations are rising. Diocese of Lincoln, the last time I checked didn’t have to import any of its priests as they are homegrown.
This is fine, but let’s not get the two confused. Religious life and Holy Orders are not the same thing.

Religious life is lived within a community, it is a vowed life and it is not part of the priesthood. The religious serves the Church in “persona Christi” as well as the priest, but he is Christ the Brother, the firstborn of the Father among many brothers.

Holy Orders is a sacrament that confers an indellible sign on a man and takes him out of the lay state, thus making him a cleric, but not a religious. The ordained priest serves in “persona Christi” as well as the religious, but he is Christ the priest, who offers sacrifice to the Father.

Religious and clerics do not want to be confused with each other, nor should they be. It is true that some men are called to be both, but not always. In Dioceses like Lincoln, NE and Arlington, VA the numbers of priests and deacons have increase significantly. But the numbers of religious men consecrated by vows are sadly missing.

This article was about the shortage of priests, not the shortage of religious men. Religious men are on the rise, but many are not going to be ordained as many religious communities are focussing on their vocaton to the religious life according to the spirit of their communities and founders.

This difference has to be kept in mind as we speak about the shortage of priests. One does not have to be a consecrated religious to be a holy priest.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
I personally do not like African priests. I don’t understand why there is a need to recruit from other countries. it just does not make sense.
Why is that? I learned a lot from a visiting African priest we had, and our new pastor is from Africa. So far, he has been great. 🤷
 
I personally do not like African priests. I don’t understand why there is a need to recruit from other countries. it just does not make sense.
Why don’t you like African priests?

We need to recruit priests from other countries because our dioceses are not producing enough priests and our religious communities are dedicating their priests to the ministries of their community, which does not always include parish work. The Church has called religious to return to their roots. Very few religious communities of men were founded to be parish priests.

We have little choice until every diocese has enough priests of its own. In the past, most dioceses had the help of religious orders to run parishes. That help is not as available as it once was. Most young religious men do not want to be priests and those who are ordained want to do the work of their order, not parish work. Religious orders are taking on less parishes and also giving back parishes to the bishops. Thus it becomes the problem of the bishops and the laity to fill those slots vacated by priests from religious orders.

Secular priests from Africa are priests like every other priest. The best part is that they are not bound to a religious community. They come to serve under the local bishop There is a degree of stability that you don’t have if you depend on priests from religious communities. Priests from religious orders are not bound to the diocese.

We can have secular priests from other countries or vacancies until your local diocese has its own priests.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂

JR 🙂
 
I personally do not like African priests. I don’t understand why there is a need to recruit from other countries. it just does not make sense.
I know a number of young men who would like to study for the priesthood, but their other vocation (to fatherhood) preculdes that.
 
I know a number of young men who would like to study for the priesthood, but their other vocation (to fatherhood) preculdes that.
Are they considering the Permanent Diaconate? As JR mentioned in an earlier post, we can use more Permanent Deacons to help those who are called to the vocation of Priest (those who are called to the vocation of fatherhood are not called to the vocation of Priest).
 
Are they considering the Permanent Diaconate? As JR mentioned in an earlier post, we can use more Permanent Deacons to help those who are called to the vocation of Priest (those who are called to the vocation of fatherhood are not called to the vocation of Priest).
The Permanent Deaconate is a real call from Christ that goes back to the time of the Apostles. Those men who have a call to fatherhood have two choices, one is easier than the other, but both are possible.
  1. Permanent Deaconate
  2. Eastern Catholicism
Catherine Doherty’s husband, Eddie Doherty, became a priest after he and his wife began the Madonna House Apostolate. Eddie became an Eastern Catholic and later a priest. He and his wife Catherine ran the Apostolate until her death. They had one son.

When I was stationed in the Archdiocese of Washington, we had a priest who had become an Eastern Catholic after his marriage. He was our chaplain. He and his wife had a daughter.

JR 🙂
 
The Permanent Deaconate is a real call from Christ that goes back to the time of the Apostles. Those men who have a call to fatherhood have two choices, one is easier than the other, but both are possible.
  1. Permanent Deaconate
  2. Eastern Catholicism
Catherine Doherty’s husband, Eddie Doherty, became a priest after he and his wife began the Madonna House Apostolate. Eddie became an Eastern Catholic and later a priest. He and his wife Catherine ran the Apostolate until her death. They had one son.

When I was stationed in the Archdiocese of Washington, we had a priest who had become an Eastern Catholic after his marriage. He was our chaplain. He and his wife had a daughter.

JR 🙂
Thank you for the correction. I assumed Western Rite, since the quandary presented was fatherhood vs. priesthood.
 
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