NYT article: priest shortage/foreign recruitment

[StAnastasia]

Look, if a candidate for the priesthood desires to remain celibate, that should be his choice…

I quite agree. No one is arguing to “outlaw” clerical celibacy, but many argue to make it optional. I know a number of young men who are eager to act on a priestly vocation, were it not seemingly tied to celibacy for which they do not have a vocation.

JR’s comments about the expenses certainly carry some truth, but the obstacle are not insurmountable. Protestant churches manage to support clerical families, but they have a longer tradition of tithing or more substantial giving than I observe in my parish.

 

[JReducation]

Look, if a candidate for the priesthood desires to remain celibate, that should be his choice. I am not advocating that be denied to him. But in several years time, after my marriage and graduation (from college) this year and the accompanying profession, I would absolutely consider serving the people of God in role as a priest.

The current position of the Holy See is that a man who has a vocation to the married life does not have a vocation to the priesthood. This position has been held for more than 1,000 years. I doubt that it will change. I could be wrong.

Even if you do not have a vocation to religious life, where celibacy is part of religious life and cannot be removed, you can’t become a secular priest either, if you are inclined to marriage. You can’t even join a Secular Order and be a married priest. Secular Orders have it in their rules that those Secular Brothers who are priests must be celibate, even though they retain the secular state. The Church cannot change the rules of religious life.

The question of marriage only applies to secular priests, not regular religious or secular religious. By comparison, the number of vocations to the religious life among men has usually been higher than the number of vocations to secular priesthood. In many dioceses in the USA this is changing. Miami, Boston and Arlington, VA have very large numbers of secular seminarians. Their secular seminaries are full or almost full to capacity. Celibacy does not seem to impair the number of vocations in those dioceses. It is also true that these dioceses have very good financial aid packages for their seminarians to study.

Religious such as the Dominicans and Franciscans are attracting large numbers of men who want to be both: religious and priests. By definition a religious is celibate. There are vocations to celibacy out there. As long as those are out there, I doubt that the Church will change her position.

JR

 

[Roamin_Xian]

Let’s hear what you have to say about that after 7 years of marriages and three small children.

You have a nice and appreciated idealism. I’m not so sure it is entirely experiencially realistic, though.

I’ve seen and spent enough time around little children to realize what burdens they offer; every Tuesday and Thursday for a couple hours each, I visit my fiancee’s second grade class and help assist. Let me tell you, most of them need to be rapped good with a ruler!

And yes, we look forward to having kids. I learned to abandon idealism a good while back.

 

[StAnastasia]

II visit my fiancee’s second grade class and help assist. Let me tell you, most of them need to be rapped good with a ruler!

Child abuser!

 

[StAnastasia]

The current position of the Holy See is that a man who has a vocation to the married life does not have a vocation to the priesthood. This position has been held for more than 1,000 years. I doubt that it will change. I could be wrong.

JR, no doubt you are right about priestly celibacy. I am still trying to understand the matter about which I posed a question in post # 87: why is marriage – rightly regarded as good and holy for a deacon the first time – not be regarded as good and holy a second time?

StAnastasia

 

[JReducation]

JR, no doubt you are right about priestly celibacy. I am still trying to understand the matter about which I posed a question in post # 87: why is marriage – rightly regarded as good and holy for a deacon the first time – not be regarded as good and holy a second time?

StAnastasia

This is a complex question, because marriage is a sacrament instituted by Christ to give grace and celibacy is not a sacrament. However, in marriage grace is mediated through the partners. In celibacy grace is mediated through the intimacy between the individual and Christ. The Church is looking not at the grace that is mediated, because how it is mediated. The Church is looking at the single-hearted relationship with Christ. A married person reaches Christ through the spouse. The celibate man or woman lives in an intimate communion with Christ that is direct. This was taught to us by Christ himself and by St. Paul. Both praised those who chose to be celibate for the sake of the Kingdom. Therefore, celibacy becomes an important part of Holy Orders, because it is the clergy who are called to preach the Kingdom through word and life.

Regular religious and secular religious are called to live the perfection of charity, which is self-giving. Therefore, they are celibate as an act of charity toward God. They give to God all the good that their body and mind can offer. Clerics are apostles. The bishops are the direct descendants of the apostles. It has been a tradition of the Church that the apostolic vocation is to be lived like Christ and Paul.

The Eastern Churches also ordain married men to the priesthood, but never as bishops. A bishop has the fullness of the priesthood. Therefore, he must be fully consecrated to Christ’s service and that of his Church as were the apostles. Since deacons and priests derive their sacramental succession from a bishop, it is considered natural that if they become widowed, they also observe the life of the bishop as closely as possible. This brings them into a more intimate communion with the fullness of the Sacrament of Holy Orders, the fellow clerics and a more intimate communion with Christ whom they preach and whom they give to others through the sacraments that they administer.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[debraran]

Fr. Groechel is having a show tonight on African Christianity and the shortage of priests. Very interesting.

 

[bellesjoy]

Robert, I agree that you were very blessed to have Fr. Lappe in Camas. I attended there several times as a visitor. We should all be blessed with many young men like him called by Our Lord to serve!
We have several Nigerian priests serving in our diocese (Diocese of Baker, the dry side of Oregon). Each I have come to know are so beautifully formed and their joy in the Faith simply overflows to all who hear them.
It is sometimes difficult for us older Catholics to accept the fact that we are a mission country to the priests in Nigeria. (When I was a child we prayed for the conversion of souls in Africa!) The diocese in Nigeria where many of our priests come from has over 250 seminarians currently. These priests come here with the blessing and permission of thier Bishop, staying only a couple of years, usually.
The states of WA and OR are particularly unchurched and many of the Catholics in the pews are not well versed in their own faith.
One of our Nigerian priests is spending much of his time here trying to teach and inspire our parishoners to re-kindle the fire of our Faith and we are grateful for his presence here.
It is difficult to imagine anyone not liking these wonderful priests.
Hopefully they will also inspire more young men in our own diocese to be open to vocations to the priesthood.

 

[Roamin_Xian]

I imagine that there are many men like me who are married and absolutely willing to become priests. Obviously, there is a gaping shortage of priests, and that breach could be filled by us who don’t mind fulfilling both sacraments (see 1 Timothy 3:2).

Many parishes have been served by married men anyhow (deacons, parish administrators) and so forth. It’s not a new phenomenon; and frankly, celibacy wasn’t even the rule until the start of the second millenium.

Married clergy serve God just as faithfully and dutifully as celibate clergy. It’s a discipline, not a doctrine.

 

[JReducation]

I imagine that there are many men like me who are married and absolutely willing to become priests. Obviously, there is a gaping shortage of priests, and that breach could be filled by us who don’t mind fulfilling both sacraments (see 1 Timothy 3:2).

Many parishes have been served by married men anyhow (deacons, parish administrators) and so forth. It’s not a new phenomenon; and frankly, celibacy wasn’t even the rule until the start of the second millenium.

Married clergy serve God just as faithfully and dutifully as celibate clergy. It’s a discipline, not a doctrine.

Yes, but it is a discipline that the Apostolic See has already decided is essential to the priesthood in the Latin Rite. As far as the Apostolic See is concerned, the question is moot, unless you’re an ordained priest from another Christian community who converts. Even these men are ordained under an indult, not as an ordinary rule.

JR

 

[Roamin_Xian]

Seriously…I don’t see why every last issue has to be the point of contention. Married people serve God just as well as celibate people. Married clergy are just as dutiful as celibate priests.

But, if the Church wants to continue the chronic shortage in America and Europe, so be it.

 

[LRThunder]

Seriously…I don’t see why every last issue has to be the point of contention. Married people serve God just as well as celibate people. Married clergy are just as dutiful as celibate priests.

But, if the Church wants to continue the chronic shortage in America and Europe, so be it.

I wonder how many people who are pushing for married priests have even considered how difficult it would be not only for those priests, but those families as well. The priesthood is not a career; it’s a vocation. It’s a hard life for non-married priests as it is; can you imagine how one would be able to support a family?

 

[Roamin_Xian]

I wonder how many people who are pushing for married priests have even considered how difficult it would be not only for those priests, but those families as well. The priesthood is not a career; it’s a vocation. It’s a hard life for non-married priests as it is; can you imagine how one would be able to support a family?

It seems to be difficult for any working person to have a family. A priest meets with people and deals with their problems? So does a lawyer (you’d hope) or a psychologist.

 

[LRThunder]

It seems to be difficult for any working person to have a family. A priest meets with people and deals with their problems? So does a lawyer (you’d hope) or a psychologist.

You’re still thinking of the priesthood as a mere career instead of a vocation, and that’s where the biggest weakness in the “pro-married priest” argument is.

 

[Roamin_Xian]

You’re still thinking of the priesthood as a mere career instead of a vocation, and that’s where the biggest weakness in the “pro-married priest” argument is.

So married people can’t have a vocation?

 

[chicago]

It seems to be difficult for any working person to have a family. A priest meets with people and deals with their problems? So does a lawyer (you’d hope) or a psychologist.

I would argue that society would benefit from also having a partial class of celibate lawyers and psychologists (and many other professions.)

 

[LRThunder]

So married people can’t have a vocation?

As it is currently right now, marriage in of itself is a vocation, separated from a vocation to the priesthood. The discipline is priestly celibacy. It’s time some people accept that.

 

[Roamin_Xian]

As it is currently right now, marriage in of itself is a vocation, separated from a vocation to the priesthood. The discipline is priestly celibacy. It’s time some people accept that.

Well, I hope you don’t encounter any of the married Anglican priests who converted to Catholicism and were re-ordained, or the married Eastern Catholic priests. Obviously, they are scam artists.

 

[LRThunder]

Well, I hope you don’t encounter any of the married Anglican priests who converted to Catholicism and were re-ordained, or the married Eastern Catholic priests. Obviously, they are scam artists.

Obviously, some dispensations can be given on a case by case basis. But those are more of exceptions than the general rule.

 

[Roamin_Xian]

Obviously, some dispensations can be given on a case by case basis. But those are more of exceptions than the general rule.

The general rule which is a discipline. Celibacy works for some people, not for others. I’m not saying priests shouldn be denied celibacy, I am just calling for respect for the ancient tradition of married priests as well. If a priest wishes to pursue a celibate vocation, God bless him!