O Reilly just said Jesus never said anything about homosexual marriage or contraception

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HansTrappist said:
The sins that cry to Heaven for Vengeance:
  1. Murder (Gn 4:10)
    2. Sodomy (Gn 17:20-21)
  2. Oppression of the poor (Ex 2:23)
  3. Defrauding workers of their just wages (Jas 5:4)
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The question is who invented that list? How is “sodomy” infinitely worse than oppression of the poor? Than bestiality, or pedophilia? Sodomy only causes harm to two people- and that’s the two people who commit the act. Oppression of the poor, defraudiing workers of wages, and murder affects everybody.
 
And Genesis 17:20 is completely off topic- it’s about Ishmael, not Sodomy.
 
Need I quote:

Jer 23:14

In the prophets of Jerusalem also I have seen a horrible thing; they commit adultery, and walk in lies, and they strengthen the hands of evil-doers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them become unto me as Sodom , and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.

Ez 16: 49-50

Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom; pride, fulness of bread, and prosperous ease……; And they were haughty, and committed abomination (to ‘?bh?h) before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

Wisd 19: 8

Whereas the men of Sodom received not the strangers when they came among them; the Egyptians made slaves of the guests who were their benefactors.

Ecclus 16: 8

God spared not those with whom Lot sojourned, whom he abhorred for their pride

3 Maccabees 2:5

“Thou didst burn up with fire and brimstone the men of Sodom, workers of arrogance, who had become known for all their crimes

Jubilees 13: 17

The Men of Sodom were sinners exceedingly

Jubilees 16: 5-6

The Lord executed his judgement on Sodom, and Gomorrah, and Zeboim, and all the regions of the Jordan ad he burned them with fire and brimstone, and destroyed them until this day, even as I have declared unto thee all their works, that they are wicked and sinners exceedingly, and that they defile themselves and commit fornication in their flesh…

Jubilees 13: 17

And Abraham told of the judgement of the giants and the judgement of the Sodomites, how they had been judged on account of their wickedness, and had died on account of their fornication, and uncleanness……

Josephus, Antiquities

About this time, the men of Sodom grew proud, on account of their riches and great wealth; they became unjust toward me, and impious toward God…… they hated strangers

Josephus, Antiquities

Now when the Sodomites saw the young men [the angels] to be of beautiful countenance, and this to an extraordinary degree, they resolved themselves to enjoy these beautiful boys by force and violence.
 
brasta_septim said:
The question is who invented that list? How is “sodomy” infinitely worse than oppression of the poor? Than bestiality, or pedophilia? Sodomy only causes harm to two people- and that’s the two people who commit the act. Oppression of the poor, defraudiing workers of wages, and murder affects everybody.
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That’s a good question.

God invented the list.

In reality, Sin affects everybody regardless of whether it is Hitler murdering millions or millons murdering their souls through Lust. In either case, Evil is empowered, and we all suffer the consequence. I know, it is a hard truth, but it is true nonetheless. Sin affects us all whether it be done in private or in public.
 
HansTrappist said:
That’s a good question.

God invented the list.

In reality, Sin affects everybody regardless of whether it is Hitler murdering millions or millons murdering their souls through Lust. In either case, Evil is empowered, and we all suffer the consequence. I know, it is a hard truth, but it is true nonetheless. Sin affects us all whether it be done in private or in public.
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👍
 
HansTrappist said:
That’s a good question.
Sin affects us all whether it be done in private or in public.
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Last time I checked, that was never in my catechism- and they don’t mention Sodomy on that list in the catechism, either. While I’m not denying homosexuality is, to use the words of the Catechism, “gravely disordered,” I cannot logically, using reason, imagine a sexual, private sin to affect everybody and be worse than things that are true injustices. Plus, it is statistically impossible for an entire city to be homosexual, knowing what we have learned from modern science. It is not, however, imposible for an entire city to be arrogant, and hate strangers enough to rape them.

And need I quote again: “The Lord executed his judgement on Sodom, and Gomorrah, and Zeboim, and all the regions of the Jordan and he burned them with fire and brimstone, and destroyed them until this day, even as I have declared unto thee all their works, that they are wicked and sinners exceedingly, and that they defile themselves and commit fornication in their flesh…”

Need I remind you that fornication is listed explicitly as a **man-woman **sin?
 
brasta_septim said:
Last time I checked, that was never in my catechism- and they don’t mention Sodomy on that list in the catechism, either. While I’m not denying homosexuality is, to use the words of the Catechism, “gravely disordered,” I cannot logically, using reason, imagine a sexual, private sin to affect everybody and be worse than things that are true injustices. Plus, it is statistically impossible for an entire city to be homosexual, knowing what we have learned from modern science. It is not, however, imposible for an entire city to be arrogant, and hate strangers enough to rape them.
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The homosexual act is intrinsically evil. Find out why…
 
I’ve tried to- I’ve looked at every last catechism, apologetics book, encyclical, document, and episcopal declaration I can think of- but none of them make enough sense to reason that homosexuality is the second-to-worst of sins. It is simply not a rational thought. I’ve tried- I really have. I have prayed for God to give the answer to this question once and for all, so I can condemn with equal fervour- but it has not happened. Instead, my logic has and prayers have led me to believe homosexuality is gravely disordered, but no worse than any other mortal sin born of lust out there.
 
brasta_septim said:
I’ve tried to- I’ve looked at every last catechism, apologetics book, encyclical, document, and episcopal declaration I can think of- but none of them make enough sense to reason that homosexuality is the second-to-worst of sins. It is simply not a rational thought. I’ve tried- I really have. I have prayed for God to give the answer to this question once and for all, so I can condemn with equal fervour- but it has not happened. Instead, my logic has and prayers have led me to believe homosexuality is gravely disordered, but no worse than any other mortal sin born of lust out there.
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The act is intrinsically evil because it cannot achieve the purpose the reproductive organs were designed for.
 
God said multiply & fill the earth. God has given us Natural Family Planning as a means of naturally spacing children. Contraceptions harm, & kill many women & babies each year! It is intrinsicly evil, because the fruit of it is death!

If you truely love your wife why would you allow her to risk her life taking the pill/patch? Men who are supposed to protect your family, what about the children you have conceived on the pill, and IUD, who were spontaneously aborted? What will you say to them on judgement day…

Sterilization takes a good, normal, healthy, organ which is working how God designed it, and cripples it!

The New Testament edorsed heterosexual marriage. The Apostles were told to choose a leader who was married to only one wife! 👍
 
And I did not mention sterilization, abortion, and contraception. Though personally- having children is not a problem- if a lack of children being conceived was a problem, I, as a member of St. Vincent de Paul, would not be handling the cases of women in their early twenties with six children in a row, unmarried and in poverty.
 
As screwed up as the world was when Jesus walked among men, it was at least sane enough for the consensus to believe that such practices were taboo if not flat out wrong.

People did them sure, but did they do them with as much pride and encouragement as they do them now? I doubt it. So why would Jesus feel it necessary to mention such things in front of the large crowds that he frequented? It would be as if Jesus came today and said “stealing is wrong.” The faithful would say “Yeah, no ****.”

I would love to see a sort of second gospel after Jesus comes the next time. I am confident he will actually speak on these issues, since the moral judgements of these issues are grave issues of our era, not because of how widespread they are, but because there are people on this earth who are honestly convinced that these are moral, acceptable choices.
 
I’m not sure if Jesus spoke of gay marriage specifically as it certainly would not be something participants practiced openly in those days, but He does address “sensuality that goes against nature” as being “more guilty.” The sin is not in the temptation, but in the act or desire to commit sin.
 
TrixieMcGee said:
Well we certainly have no evidence that Christ said anything on either. Contraception existed at the time in some forms (although not widely used) and I am not sure about gay marriage, maybe in some cultures. The Church and scripture have verses that indirectly talk about these issues, though. Also Church teaching is clear on it. Honestly though I really doubt that Jesus spoke on either, since I don’t think they were as big of issues then as they are now.
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Well though they certainly did not have our modern day devices and drugs to contracept but they did know perfectly well the process by which a man and a woman reproduce.

Now in the book of Genesis 38:8 we have a guy that decided to contracept by using the method of spilling his seed on the ground and GOD took his life for it.
That seems a pretty strong statement on Do Not Contracept me thinks.
 
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